Why isn't Sandin getting a better shot?

[Nineteen67]

Who's job is he taking right now?

Lehtonen?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

If we move Dermott we should just work Sandin and Liljegren into a rotation on the bottom pair with Lehtonen and Bogosian to get them some games in this year. The top 4 have been solid. and we could actually shelter them this year.

Would leave us slightly exposed if we get decimated my injuries all of a sudden but most teams aren't 8-9 guys deep anyways.

We would also have to add an expansion eligible D if Holl keeps playing like this and we want to protect him.

 

[D00bis]

Man the NHL isn’t a development league if he was good enough for big minutes he would be there. I don’t want him groomed for the third pair he’s a top 4 if not a top 2 dman imo but just isn’t there yet. He’s 20, dmen develop a bit later anyways. Patients guys we finally have d depth so we have time.

 

[ForsbergForever]

Is Liljegren no longer in the Leafs plans/considered a bust at this point? There seems to be no discussion about him even sniffing a full-time roster spot even though he's now 21 and had several years to develop.

 

[Ryan52]

Is Liljegren no longer in the Leafs plans/considered a bust at this point? There seems to be no discussion about him even sniffing a full-time roster spot even though he's now 21 and had several years to develop.

he keeps getting passed on the chart and hasnt looked great. might turn out to be a miss but i dont want to see him out of the org yet. with that said, i dont know his expansion draft eligibility

 

[stickty111]

Is Liljegren no longer in the Leafs plans/considered a bust at this point? There seems to be no discussion about him even sniffing a full-time roster spot even though he's now 21 and had several years to develop.

He's clearly in the plans. He was an elite AHL d man at a very young age. There is a lot of depth in the way though.

 

[MapleLeafs77]

Honestly our top 6 years down the lines should be:

Rielly Brodie
Sandin Liljegren
Muzzin Dermott

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I feel like this is kind of a rhetorical question. The leafs LD depth in front of him is Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, Lehtonen. Pretty much no way he sees time unless there is injury.

It is why I think Dermott may be traded. Huge log jam at defense on the left side, expansion draft consideration, new contract etc.

At some point he needs to be tried out long term on the right side if he is going to stay with the leafs and with Brodie play well and Holl playing very well i don't think that will happen.

 

[ryno23]

love my fellow Leaf fans. They complain when Marinicin had to play as there was no depth. Dubas gets depth now people are complaining about Sandin not playing. Who on the left side does he go in for? Brodie? Muzzin? Dermott?

Folks take a break this is what good depth looks like. Good players have to sit or play in the minors. Sandin will get his shot eventually

 

[biotk]

love my fellow Leaf fans. They complain when Marinicin had to play as there was no depth. Dubas gets depth now people are complaining about Sandin not playing. Who on the left side does he go in for? Brodie? Muzzin? Dermott?

Folks take a break this is what good depth looks like. Good players have to sit or play in the minors. Sandin will get his shot eventually

Fans always want their team to use young promising D as depth and injury relief. Good teams never use them as such and instead use a combination of older D who are either career #7/8 or former top-4 D. (see Tampa and Dallas on their playoff runs to the finals last summer - 3o-year-old former top-4 Schenn; 30-year-old career #7/8 Rutta; 35-year-old former top-4 Coburn; 29-year-old career #7/8 Hanley; 34-year-old career #7/8 Fedun)

Good teams ensure their young promising D are developing elsewhere and only brought in when both they and the team are ready the D to be a permanent player in the NHL lineup. Dubas said this exact thing back when he cared about development. They are not sitting around as injury relief. They are not denied development opportunities to play elsewhere because their team might run into a string of injuries.

This is not what good depth looks like. This is what bad development looks like. Worst of both worlds. Ruins prospects.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Lehtonen?

Perhaps but that still makes him the #7 D getting what? 6 minutes a night? still not enough he's got to be top 6 and right now there isn't an open spot

 

[Papi34]

Looks like he's been called up from taxi squad. Could just be a nhl/minor salary thing so who knows. Transactions - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[Maplebeasts]

he keeps getting passed on the chart and hasnt looked great. might turn out to be a miss but i dont want to see him out of the org yet. with that said, i dont know his expansion draft eligibility

False. He is an even better AHL player than Sandin and is arguably the better prospect. Tavares even called him out as one of the most impressive players in camp in an interview. He is also exempt from the expansion draft so he will be full time next year.

 

[shortfuze]

Makes me sad. Our best defense prospect since Morgan Rielly and we’re just screwing around with him because Travis Dermott needs ice time.

Doesn’t Dermott need ice time to develop his game as well? They have put all this time into into Dermott to not have him play. He has played some good hockey since being the NHL.

 

[Critical13]

Good attitudes from both Keefe and Sandin here.

What is our boy Lilly up to? Haven't heard his name yet this season.

Honestly our top 6 years down the lines should be:

Rielly Brodie
Sandin Liljegren
Muzzin Dermott

Disagree.

Muzzin - Brodie
Sandin - Holl
Dermott - Liljegren

With Topi and crew waiting in the wings.

 

[LeafChief]

Really would love to see Sandin get into some games here.

 

[Future]

Doesn’t Dermott need ice time to develop his game as well? They have put all this time into into Dermott to not have him play. He has played some good hockey since being the NHL.

Dermott is an ok player (although I don’t quite get this board’s fascination with him). But Sandin’s development needs to take priority IMO. He could be our future number 1 or 2 D. Can’t afford to mess around here.

 

[Stephen]

Dermott is an ok player (although I don’t quite get this board’s fascination with him). But Sandin’s development needs to take priority IMO. He could be our future number 1 or 2 D. Can’t afford to mess around here.

Justin Holl's emergence makes it more likely than not that Dermott will be the expansion casualty to Seattle if no trades or side deals are made. So knowing this, I wonder if the Leafs would be motivated to a) trade Dermott to preserve some value b) play Dermott less, knowing they'd ultimately be developing an asset for Seattle, while guys like Sandin (and Lehtonen) are hungry for ice time.

It's too bad. The Leafs did a lot of maneuvering around the Dermott pick back in 2015, passing up on Konecny, Aho, Carlo which led me to believe they thought they had a diamond in the rough. He he a lot of natural skill but it doesn't seem to be gelling very quickly, which may suggest he doesn't have the high end processor to take it to the next level(s).

 

[LeafsNation75]

Justin Holl's emergence makes it more likely than not that Dermott will be the expansion casualty to Seattle if no trades or side deals are made. So knowing this, I wonder if the Leafs would be motivated to a) trade Dermott to preserve some value b) play Dermott less, knowing they'd ultimately be developing an asset for Seattle, while guys like Sandin (and Lehtonen) are hungry for ice time.

If that was to happen doesn't Dermott need to get re-signed for the 2021-22 Season, since he's currently playing on a 1 year contract.

 

[Nylander88]

I personally like Bogosian in the lineup. I think he adds to the team on and off the ice. And we've shown in years past why we needed a guy like him. So there's really only one spot. I really like Dermott tbh, but the expansion draft complicates things. If he is moved, I hope Sandin gets to rotate with Lehtonen on that third pairing left side, and hopefully beat him out

 

[Nylander88]

Really would love to see Sandin get into some games here.

I agree. And having a defensive partner who is tough should help him out (Bogo). I still remember when he played Detroit and he got run into the boards by I believe Abdelkader. And Babcock said after the game he didn't like what had happened. But nobody came to Sandin's aid. He was out there on his own. Having a partner that'll communicate with him lots, has recently won a Cup, and will stick up for him if need be...could go a long ways for a young Sandin

 

[Antropovsky]

Weird - Sandin said he put alot of time in the gym and got a lot stronger this offseason. From the way the quote is written it sounds like Keefe isn't fond of his conditioning. Then again, I would have to see the actual interview to get a more clear read on it.

 

[BAM]

I would much rather Sandin get reps instead of Dermott. One is bait for Seattle, the other is ideally a future top 4 d-man on ELC.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Leafs prospect Rasmus Sandin keeps a stiff upper lip, but he sure would like to play a game again | The Star

Evidently fed up with hearing about how they’re stifling the development of 20-year-old defenceman Rasmus Sandin, the Maple Leafs fired a few shots of their own in Sandin’s direction on Monday.

Sure, head coach Sheldon Keefe expressed a certain amount of sympathy for the plight of the promising 2018 first-round pick who hasn’t played in a hockey game in 328 days and counting. And Keefe went out of his way to insist he has “no doubt” that Sandin will emerge as an “everyday NHL player.” The problem is, with Sandin currently slotted as the eighth defenceman on Toronto’s depth chart — and with the Leafs dressing, at most, seven defenceman a night — the coach is loathe to say precisely when that day will come. In the interim, Keefe levelled some not-so-veiled criticism at Sandin, calling into question the Swede’s work ethic and overall professionalism in the midst of a global pandemic.

“We’ve really tried to prioritize with him (the importance of) using this time productively to maintain or really improve his work habits, and his time in the gym and his training in the gym and maturing his body and just learning what’s necessary to be an everyday NHL player, not just from a skill standpoint, but the habits that go into it,” Keefe said. “I think there’s some growth to be had there. We’ve spoken to him about that.”

Keefe continued, saying the blueliner still has plenty of off-ice learning to do: “It’s everything, when you take your gear off, what you’re doing to take care of yourself and improve yourself.”

Even if there’s some truth in Keefe’s words — because rare is the 20-year-old who is an unassailably consummate pro — it’s difficult to imagine Monday’s public talking-to went over well in Sandin’s camp. Speaking of gaping room for improvement, the Leafs clearly erred in declining to permit Sandin to play for Sweden in the world junior championship, insisting they required his services from the get-go of training camp on Jan. 3, even though the tournament wrapped up on Jan. 5. Now, along with depriving Sandin of what would have been an opportunity to dominate his peers — Sandin was named the tournament’s best defenceman the year before — the Leafs have decided to rap his knuckles with a public scolding. As if it wasn’t bad enough that Sandin was passed over for playing time in favour of Martin Marincin during the summertime play-in series loss to the Blue Jackets.

Not that you’d know any of this listening to Sandin. In a season of unrest around the NHL, where trade demands from disgruntled talent have been making headlines from Montreal to Calgary to Winnipeg, Sandin maintained a stiff upper lip during a brief Zoom media session Monday.

“I mean, it’s obviously a little frustrating,” Sandin said. “It was a very long time ago since I played a game. But we’re gonna hang in there. We’re having fun in practice. It’s great being with the guys again.”

A lot of this, to be fair, is out of the Leafs’ control. Under normal circumstances, the club would have the option of keeping Sandin sharp with the AHL Marlies. But precisely when the AHL is going to begin play, nobody can say for sure.

Still, the idea that Sandin was going to be hard-pressed to get playing time barring an early-season injury or two wasn’t exactly difficult to see coming. It was basically inevitable the Swede was going to find himself as the eighth defenceman to begin the season, what with no pre-season games to prove himself and a truncated training camp to boot. The Leafs were locked into a top four of Morgan Rielly, T.J. Brodie, Jake Muzzin and Justin Holl. They didn’t sign a veteran depth player like 30-year-old Zach Bogosian because they’re prioritizing development. And 24-year-old Travis Dermott, for all his stumbles, was essentially a lock on the third pair given he has played 128 more NHL games than Sandin.

On top of all that, the Leafs are essentially obligated to prioritize the ice time of free-agent newcomer Mikko Lehtonen ahead of Sandin, at least for a while. Lehtonen, after all, was a highly coveted commodity when the Leafs successfully recruited him from the KHL. So it’s important for any reputable organization, if it’s going to maintain its reputation for integrity in such negotiations, to follow through on its promises to players coming over from the continent. It’s hard to imagine they sold Lehtonen on Toronto with the promise of a season-long seat in the press box.