Why isn't Bobby Smith in the HHoF?

[MS]

Who’s more HHOF worthy

Bobby Smith or Brian Bellows?

Smith easily.

Although I've made the point before that Bellows and Dave Andreychuk had virtually identical careers from 1982-1997 (Bellows probably ahead, actually) and then Andreychuk made the HHOF because he ran together a string of 35-point seasons until he was 41 while Bellows is a 'LOL not even close' because he aged out normally.

 

[MS]

The thing that stuck out to me in a look at Smith's playoffs is that he never really had any additional production beyond that of a player given top line ice time. If you look at his extended playoff runs, he tops out at almost exactly 30%.

Year	Games	Points	Team GF	P%
79-80	15	14	49	0.286
80-81	19	25	84	0.298
82-83	9	10	34	0.294
83-84	15	9	42	0.214
84-85	12	11	43	0.256
85-86	20	15	56	0.268
86-87	17	18	67	0.269
88-89	21	19	67	0.284
90-91	23	16	81	0.198
Total	151	137	523	0.262
		0.907	3.464

He never had an outlier playoff run, he just basically produced about what an average top line forward would produce on average in top line minutes. Compare that to Ryan Getzlaf, another forward on the margins of the Hall of Fame who has some playoff renown.

Year	Games	Points	Team GF	P%
05-06	16	7	46	0.152
06-07	21	17	58	0.293
08-09	13	18	35	0.514
13-14	12	15	35	0.429
14-15	16	20	57	0.351
16-17	17	19	50	0.380
Total	95	96	281	0.342
		1.011	2.958

In Getzlaf's prime, he provided a much bigger share of his team's offense compared to Bobby Smith. In Getzlaf's Cup year of 06-07, he lead the Ducks in scoring, but it wasn't like he was a dominant player at the time, being just 21. The same occurs with Smith in 80-81 in his first Cup final run. Similar playoff years, both right at that 30% P% level. Every other extended Getzlaf run had him deep in the 30s or higher. If you look at Smith's best 4 playoff runs by P% (80, 81, 83, 89), he scored 68 points in 64 games on 234 team goals, or 0.291 P%. If you subtract Getzlaf's 05-06 run, he had 89 points in 79 games on 235 team goals, a 0.379 P%. Both teams scored the same amount of goals, Getzlaf played 15 extra games, and scored 21 more points. That's the aspect of Smith's playoffs that 80s scoring levels and raw points masks.

Yeah, Smith was a good playoff performer but he never did anything to put himself into Conn Smythe conversation or had the sort of defining playoffs that might make you reconsider his HOVG career into a HHOF one.

Brad Richards is probably a pretty comparable-level player, too, in terms of having a HOVG career with a really good playoff record and he *did* have an elite Conn Smythe playoffs in there, and it still won't be enough for him.

 

[seventieslord]

Who’s more HHOF worthy

Bobby Smith or Brian Bellows?

Smith, easily.

 

[Staniowski]

Who’s more HHOF worthy

Bobby Smith or Brian Bellows?

Neither of them are in any HHOF discussion (except for this one), but I'd say Bellows was a bit better.

 

[Staniowski]

People often say that playing for the Leafs or Habs helps players get into the Hall. But I actually think playing for Montreal hurts Smith. He never fit neatly into Montreal's defensive strength.

Was he one of the Habs' eight ot ten most important players on the '86 Stanley Cup winning team? No, I don't think so.

 

[The Panther]

I'd say Smith was better than Bellows as Smith was more well-rounded. He could score and was a playmaker, Bellows not much of the latter. Smith was really defensively responsible, Bellows was not particularly.

@Staniowski , are you serious with your latest odd comment? Smith was certainly one of Montreal's eight ot ten most important players overall from 1985 to 1989 (probably top 4). He didn't have his best playoff, maybe, in 1986 but he was still third in team scoring.

 

[Staniowski]

I'd say Smith was better than Bellows as Smith was more well-rounded. He could score and was a playmaker, Bellows not much of the latter. Smith was really defensively responsible, Bellows was not particularly.

@Staniowski , are you serious with your latest odd comment? Smith was certainly one of Montreal's eight ot ten most important players overall from 1985 to 1989 (probably top 4). He didn't have his best playoff, maybe, in 1986 but he was still third in team scoring.

It's not an odd comment. Most people who watched the '86 playoffs would agree these players (at least) were more important:

Skrudland
McPhee
Chelios
Roy
Green
Carbonneau
Naslund
Lemieux
Robinson

Carbonneau and Skrudland were the top two centres on the team

 

[vikash1987]

From the looks of it, they did spend a lot of time together on the power play. Montreal had 87 power play goals that season. Naslund was on the ice for 71 of them and Smith was on the ice for 40 of them. So at a bare minimum, they were on the ice for at least 24 power play goals together, but in actuality probably a lot more than that. Smith just didn't perform very well on the power play that season. He had just 22 power play points on the 40 goals he was on the ice for. As a center, that's very poor. Naslund, a left winger, had 50 power play points on those 71 goals.

Smith definitely played less on the power play that season, but his own performance is a big reason why he didn't have more points, and could also be a big reason why he didn't get more power play time as well.

I don’t think you can infer from that stat alone that Smith wasn’t good on the PP. Smith was a big guy at 6’4” (just like Larry Robinson, who often quarterbacked the PP), and he was often the go-to player for rushing the puck into the zone and for creating time and space on the PP—even if he didn’t always factor into the PP scoring.

The decision to use Ryan Walter instead of Smith on the top PP unit was a conscious move by the coach to spread / balance the units. Again, not necessarily an indication that the player is performing poorly.

Speaking in general and not just in terms of the PP: when Smith was paired with the two Swedish playmakers, Mats Naslund And Kjell Dahlin (remember him?), it was arguably as good a combination as any line in the league that season. Naslund, of course, set an NHL record for assists by a left winger—curious what % of Naslund’s pts. Smith got in on—and Dahlin was a rookie of the year candidate with over 30 goals, though he seemed to run out of gas as the season wore on. Interestingly, both Smith and Naslund had 18-game point-scoring streaks that season.

 

[HairyKneel]

Neither of them are in any HHOF discussion (except for this one), but I'd say Bellows was a bit better.

Mogilny and Rod Brindamour are more deserving than
Booby Smith or Brian Bellows.

 

[Crosby2010]

Very good player, just got a bit lost in the logjam of the 1980s centres. Didn't stand out. Would have helped if he was on Team Canada in a Canada Cup or something. But he just didn't stand out amongst his peers in an elite way. Bernie Nicholls is a nice comparison. Dave Taylor already mentioned. Bernie Federko who is in the HHOF was a bit better. Lots to like about him though. If he's your #1 centre you might have a good team. If he is your #2 centre you definitely have a good team.

 

[decma]

I'd say Smith was better than Bellows as Smith was more well-rounded. He could score and was a playmaker, Bellows not much of the latter. Smith was really defensively responsible, Bellows was not particularly.

@Staniowski , are you serious with your latest odd comment? Smith was certainly one of Montreal's eight ot ten most important players overall from 1985 to 1989 (probably top 4). He didn't have his best playoff, maybe, in 1986 but he was still third in team scoring.

Was Smith defensively responsible? I don't recall him being so, and I don't think he had a reputation for being so.

 

[Moose Head]

I think he was actually hurt by going to the Habs. It was a run and gun league, but the Habs were not that. If he had gone to the western conference I think his numbers look a lot better. Naslunds numbers were hurt as well. They are the opposite of the mid to late 90’s Pens, who were really the only run and gun team in the dead puck era.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Naslund, of course, set an NHL record for assists by a left winger—curious what % of Naslund’s pts. Smith got in on—and Dahlin was a rookie of the year candidate with over 30 goals, though he seemed to run out of gas as the season wore on

I count Smith factoring in on 37 out of Näslund’s 110 points in 1985-86. Dahlin on 30, Robinson 27.

 

[voyageur]

It's not an odd comment. Most people who watched the '86 playoffs would agree these players (at least) were more important:

Skrudland
McPhee
Chelios
Roy
Green
Carbonneau
Naslund
Lemieux
Robinson

Carbonneau and Skrudland were the top two centres on the team

Skrudland had 2 goals in the 1986 playoffs.

Bobby's Smiths contributions were the opening 2 goals in the Bruins series, one the GWG in game 1.

1 assist in game 2, on a go ahead goal

1 assist in game 3.

Quiet series against Hartford, which was a tough matchup center wise 1-4. only 3 assists.

Rangers series, primary assist on opening goal in game 1

Opening goal for Canadiens in game 2 to tie up the game, before breaking it open

Late 3rd period goal in game 3, to tie up the game, won in OT. Which sealed the series.

GWG in game 5.

Stanley Cup final, again pretty quiet in another tough center battle but he did have the primary assist and a goal to tie up the game in crucial occasions in the pivotal game 3. And the eventual GWG in game 5, though it was a 4-1 goal at the time.

Every goal Bobby Smith scored in that playoff year was clutch. And he had primary assists on 5 of his 8, some of which were also very large.

If he wasn't better than Roy, Robinson, Chelios, Carbo, Gainey on that team, well that's a HoF class, 1986 was Lemieux's breakout and some of his goals then would never stand now, he's in the Dale Hunter over the edge class of HoVG. Naslund had some big ones, but a short career. Mike Mc Phee was a force. I remember that. Skrudland worked well with Lemieux and Richer, moreso Mc Phee. But I don't remember them being the top line. Dahlin brought down the top line. But they still scored the most. Especially on the PP.