WJC: Why is sweden so poor at international junior level?

[Star Ocean]

It is not just at u20 level but u18 level as well. Yes we have 2 golds at u20 but 0 at u18. How is that possible?

Finland has surpassed Sweden and not looking back with their superstar talent every year.

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[BlitzSnipe]

It's a strange pattern that Team Sweden underperforms in the playoff rounds of the WJC. I wouldn't make the conclusion that they have a bad hockey system though.

 

[blindpass]

They're amazing in the preliminary round at the U20. That streak is ridiculous. Bad luck certainly has to be a big part of their lack of success in the medal round. It wasn't a great team this year (but none of them were, really).

 

[theslatcher]

Wouldn't call U20 poor as the last time(excluding this year) we placed outside of the top 4 is 2006.

However, we seem to be in a downswing:

Between 2008 & 2014 we only placed outside of the top 3 once(in 2011). After that, we have only placed in the top 3 once(2018).

In 2014, Grönborg started as the HC, and we placed 2nd, 4th, 4th with him. Then Montén took over and we have placed 4th, 2nd, 5th.

 

[Star Ocean]

Wouldn't call U20 poor as the last time(excluding this year) we placed outside of the top 4 is 2006.

However, we seem to be in a downswing:

Between 2008 & 2014 we only placed outside of the top 3 once(in 2011). After that, we have only placed in the top 3 once(2018).

In 2014, Grönborg started as the HC, and we placed 2nd, 4th, 4th with him. Then Montén took over and we have placed 4th, 2nd, 5th.

To think we are stuck with Montén until 2022.

 

[blindpass]

To think we are stuck with Montén until 2022.

Unfortunate for everyone, he has no class and his team's tend to reflect that.

 

[Urbanskog]

There was a time when there was no playoff round and the tournament would be played in the round-robin format. Sweden would be considered magically good if that was still the case.

 

[stastny12]

Because they have stronger opponents like Switzerland for example

 

[FinPanda]

I don't think the Swedes are poor at the junior level.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

maybe they are not horny enough?

 

[EK47]

Awful coaching is part of the reason.

 

[Statsy]

Honestly, this is one of the most interesting statistical anomalies in sports. To be so unbeatable in the preliminary round, and then to be so pedestrian in the elimination games is perplexing to say the least. I wish I could give you an answer as to why, but I really have no idea.

 

[Prntscrn]

It's called "Alla ska med". The mentality it's not about competing, it's about having fun.

 

[FinPanda]

After 2000 Finland has been in the U20 final only four times.

2001, 2014, 2016 and now 2019.

Only loss in 2001. 2019 to be seen..

Sweden has been in the U20 final 6 times after 2000: 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2018.

5 losses though.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

It's called "Alla ska med". The mentality it's not about competing, it's about having fun.

They're not mutually exclusive though .

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

They aren’t.

 

[Balance]

I don't think the results are a shock for Sweden

They have improved heavily over recent years, but there was a time not to long ago that they would literally just shell up against Russia and hope for a lucky goal or two. Beyond that, they place a lot of stock and value into group games but when it comes to see who is actually the better team they ultimately falter.

I just don't think Sweden's quality of forwards can compare to Canada, Russia, or the US. They have to depend on defense and goaltending which can only get you so far.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Offense isn't structured to be able to quick strike and come from behind, it's not dynamic enough to compete in the later rounds.

 

[Prntscrn]

They're not mutually exclusive though .

I disagree. The unwillingness for serious competion and divisions at a young age because someone's feelings might get hurt goes perfectly with "alla ska med" imo. I think this mentality really hurt us when it matter the most in pretty much all of sports.

 

[moropanov]

Sweden is higher quality in hockey than Russia, but they havent just won many golds at wjc but its not that big of deal last 12 years they only have 1 gold they should have won 3-4 talent wise much of it is luck based they have been very good many times top 2 team of tournament. And to say Sweden againts Russia Sweden plays some counter attacking defensive hockey is totally out of reality. Sweden usually is controlling game againts Russia because of theyr superior skating/skill level compared to Russia when taking to account full roster 4 lines and defensemen. Russia's strengts is effective counter attacks they have good shooting ability they defend on turtle kind of formate Russia usually at u 20 level plays underdog mentality game and waits for opportunities againts stronger foes like Canada Usa Sweden and nowadays also Finland. Still in big picture of hockey i would say Sweden is 2nd best hockey nation atm after Canada Usa is trending strong and might overtake Sweden soon. Finland also is on rise might have overtaken Russia already and might overtake Swedes also.

 

[blindpass]

It's called "Alla ska med". The mentality it's not about competing, it's about having fun.

Is that what leads to throwing your silver medal into the crowd? I suppose it actually could if you haven't learned to deal with real disappointment anytime sooner.

 

[FinPanda]

Sweden was the most talented team in 2014 but they still didn't win it.

I still remember that final against Finland. "Karri Kivi" face, a lot of powerplays for the Swedes, Saros being incredible and Ristolainen with an amazing individual effort to score the GWG.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Consequences of juniors playing in adult pro leagues. Talent developes faster but leadership qualities take longer since juniors in adult leagues are rarely placed in #1 or key roles.

Canada and USA has the opposite problem. Junior/NCAA stars adapting to depth roles.

So you get quirky results especially in short tournaments where one game may dictate success.

 

[JiggsNY]

My take is Sweden has an incredibly high floor as a team almost every year. They're always going to be consistent, competitive, structured and team oriented, but sometimes they lack that dynamic element on offense. No one can compete with their D, but their forwards are almost too structured, too disciplined, not enough deployment of skill and dynamism. Maybe Raymond, Gunler, Holtz can try and change this, but i think its just theyre always good because theyre structured and disciplined, but to beat the best, sometimes that structure and discipline bites them and holds them back a bit in a tournament where you need to play hot, and it's do or die right now.

 

[greasysnapper]

Without getting into a political debate... and this is purely on my trips up there in recent years (Malmo, Stockholm, Gothenburg).

I realize Sweden is still producing great players, but as a whole I feel like this issue might be more cultural and systemic going forwards than just bad luck in tournaments and we'll start seeing the decline of Swedish hockey over the next decade. We'll still see great players but I think they'll be fewer and farther in between as Sweden as a whole changes and puts emphasis on different cultural touchstones.

I'm heading back up there for the u18's, so that'll grant some insight. Especially hockey at the younger levels.