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Why is Keefe so reluctant to split up Matthews and Marner?

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Daisy Jane said:
so wait.
for 3+ years everyone was complaining that Babcock didn't play Matthews and marner together
and now we're questioning Keefe for not splitting them up?
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Absolutely Daisy and it’s great to see them play together.
But I think that they have to try to get something out of Tavares ,and Marner is probably the only one who can.
No competing for a cup with only 1 line.
 
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Just spit balling here, but perhaps it’s because they terrify the rest of the league and are the best thing I’ve seen in a Leafs uniform for a lllloooonnnngggg time.
 
Thank you OP I have been calling for this for a while.

Yes Matthews and Marner produce a lot together but if they get shut down we dont get much offense from anywhere else.

Team Success >>>> Individual success

Matthews produces regardless also Matthews and Willy have good chemistry too (and proven chemistry). With Matthews having issues with shooting given wrist issues Nylander can make up for that.

And marner can get JT going offensively

XXX-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner

is the top 6 I would go with moving forward. Spread out the offense a little. You can always stack the lines with in game adjustments if required but lets spread out the offensive love a little.

Matthews is a STUD he doesn't need Marner to produce; Marner can help get JT going and the team will be better for it IMO
 
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Notsince67 said:
1. they are both elite talents that are dangerous at all times.
2. He relies on them to play a lot of minutes. I don't think there are too many forwards on the team that can match their endurance. You really want to average the number of minutes down so that Nylander and JT get more minutes at the expense of M&M? It seems to me that they are already getting plenty and look gassed at times with what they already have.
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In a shortened season; where there are games pretty much every other day with not a lot of break; perhaps managing minutes and running the bench accordingly while getting more out of your top6 instead of just the 1st line is not a bad strategy IMO
 
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Because they’ve both said they want to play together and you want to keep your stars happy
 
After 4 years of crying that babcock wouldn’t play them together. Now we are complaining that keefe does......

leaf fan base in a nutshell
 
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Legion34 said:
After 4 years of crying that babcock wouldn’t play them together. Now we are complaining that keefe does......

leaf fan base in a nutshell
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I doubt it’s the same people crying. Those crying over Babcocks decisions would never complain about a Keefe decision.
 
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Keefe should split them up temporarily and see how it goes. I think he should consider making more tweaks now and then generally. When he started he was constantly juggling -- sometimes it felt like too much juggling and hurting chemistry. But now he seems too wedded to certain lines or duos or combinations.
 
Legion34 said:
After 4 years of crying that babcock wouldn’t play them together. Now we are complaining that keefe does......

leaf fan base in a nutshell
Click to expand...

I think there's appropriate times to make line changes and experiment. If you do it too much then lines and duos won't develop chemistry. If you don't change things up enough, especially when there are some rough patches, then it might take longer to turn things around.
 
socko said:
I question Hyman on the line more than anything. I don't think Hyman makes much of a difference on line 1 but he makes a big difference on line 3.
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No thats wrong. Hyman improves every single line he is on. Mark my words, Hyman is on the first line in the playoffs, dont think for a second that Hyman on the 3rd line is partially to keep his stats in check as a UFA. Hyman is the 3rd most important player on the Leafs right now from my stance.
 
saffronleaf said:
Keefe should split them up temporarily and see how it goes. I think he should consider making more tweaks now and then generally. When he started he was constantly juggling -- sometimes it felt like too much juggling and hurting chemistry. But now he seems too wedded to certain lines or duos or combinations.
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how would you play the big 4?
 
Legion34 said:
After 4 years of crying that babcock wouldn’t play them together. Now we are complaining that keefe does......

leaf fan base in a nutshell
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Why is everything black and white. That’s the Leaf fan base in a nutshell.

I’m just questioning why is keeping Matthews and Marner together absolute. Makes the team much more dangerous if we are unpredictable and not static in line pairings.
Thornton Tavares and Marner were brilliant against Edmonton. But now that Matthews is back are we just never gonna see that line again?

it’s about being flexible.
 
Atomos2 said:
This was brought up in the Keefe Discussion thread and its a decent point to note. It's not like either Matthews and Marner can't drive their own line. And the Thornton-Tavares-Marner line were excellent against the Oilers. It really does seem like Keefe has registered a stubbornness to keep them together. The exact opposite of Babcock who kept them apart.

I just don't get why it has to be one extreme or the other and we can't find a middle ground when the team needs a goal. With the amount of firepower on this team, it shouldn't be that difficult to muster offense.
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If i learned anything about Keefe it is that he is reluctant to do “Nothing”. The guy reads players and evaluating how they work together better than average. He’d change them any time he might see a window to get more out of them with others who are doing something missing on on the present line etc.
He’s definitely not stubborn and stupid
 
Atomos2 said:
Why is everything black and white. That’s the Leaf fan base in a nutshell.

I’m just questioning why is keeping Matthews and Marner together absolute. Makes the team much more dangerous if we are unpredictable and not static in line pairings.
Thornton Tavares and Marner were brilliant against Edmonton. But now that Matthews is back are we just never gonna see that line again?

it’s about being flexible.
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Keefe would change them in a split second if he though it adds something. This guy is reactive in his coaching style. He has enough stones to try anything he chooses.
Personally I wouldn’t break them two up either. Get a good cycle winger with Tavares and Willy with a complete defensive game and that’s better.
He could double shift Marner more with both centers if he didn’t already have him peaked out in minutes because he plays PK too.

I’m a believer you need a bottom 6 based off energy,physical play,defensive play and they kill your Penalties until you sneak a top player on or a entire top line on right at the end of the PK to force a mismatch. I don’t like Marner playing PK for that reason. How many quality minutes offensively can he play killing penalties.
Possibly you could see it if our Bottom six was constructed differently. Maybe :) I don’t know...
 
Oh and.... I am much more content with Matthews and Marner playing together than the previous tool not playing them at all together
 
Wafflewhipper said:
If i learned anything about Keefe it is that he is reluctant to do “Nothing”. The guy reads players and evaluating how they work together better than average. He’d change them any time he might see a window to get more out of them with others who are doing something missing on on the present line etc.
He’s definitely not stubborn and stupid
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He’s not stubborn and atleast right now I’d keep them together since there is a significant break since their last game. But during the slump when they were running into hot goaltenders I think that could’ve been an option. I guess he was waiting to see if they could play their way out of the slump but it was an option that was worth exploring.
 
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we are among the top 3 highest scoring teams, why try and fix something that is working really good
 
Toronto Bag Head said:
we are among the top 3 highest scoring teams, why try and fix something that is working really good
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Well, it’s not always that cut and dried in fairness to the OP. Keefe plays with the lines constantly anyway. He just likes them together through thick and thin is ok too
 
Atomos2 said:
I get that but it hasn't resulted in us winning games recently. This is not saying that they are bad together, but trying something new to avoid a slump getting worse isn't the craziest idea, especially if it keeps opposing teams honest.
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i get where you're coming from. the issue isn't with our forwards. It's logical to think that we're going to run into some hot goaltending once in a while, the issue is and has been being unable to keep the puck out of our own net over that stretch. We were outscored over that 3 game set, even though we outplayed them heavily in the first two. The narrative would be alot different if we won the first 2 and then lost the 3rd in addition to the sens game.

The top line isn't and hasn't ever been the issue. The other big change was the 3rd line not being able to be put together.
 
This team was a touchdown ahead of the pack until Matthews missed time for his hand/wrist. So why on earth is being stubborn sticking with a lineup that was rolling the rest of the division prior to this slump?

This is not a original observation, but bears repeating: Too many Leafs fans spend far too much of their time looking for something to complain about.
 
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In what way is he reluctant? Why would the thought cross his mind? They complement each other very well.
 
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