They should definately let Jukka Jalonen or another European coach try in the NHL. European coaches record is not good but there have not been many trying.
Why is Finland underrated year in year out
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karhukissa
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2019
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On paper yes. But how can you not be considered to be in big 5 if in the last 7 best vs best olympics Finland has went home with a medal (not gold though but we're talking about big 5). So 7 times out of 8 since 1988.
So is it really overachieving if we're talking about medal count. On paper? Sure. But hockey isn't played on a paper.
MoeTheHobo
Registered User
- Jan 24, 2017
- 861
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Yes right! Apparently, hockey is the only sport that looks so closely at paper. You can play at the top level for 20 years, but if you look at the "paper", e.g. is worse than the USA, then you have the eternal underdog. E.g. if you are in the top group in football (soccer), nobody underestimates you. No matter what is on the paper. Example Italy in football(soccer). They have had not much superstars, are always among the top favorites (despite crises).
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Henkka
Registered User
Finnish National Team should be expansion team for NHL
Then we can put Kekäläinen to GM spot and Jalonen to coach etc.
violaswallet
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- Apr 8, 2019
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Svedu
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2019
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Laine-Barkov-Rantanen
Teräväinen-Aho-Puljujärvi (seems to reach his potential after all)
Hintz-Lundell-Kakko (I believe he could flourish with more trust and good mates)
Kapanen(because of his skating)-Kotkaniemi-Armia(So underrated, had another organization drafted him he would probably turned out as top6 wing)
Donskoi, Mikael Granlund, Luostarinen, Lehkonen, Tolvanen, Vesalainen, Kuokkanen, Ruotsalainen, Julius Nättinen, Hartikainen etc
Younger players in the nearest future: Lambert, Kupari, Heponiemi, Maccelli, Aatu Räty, Jesse Nurmi, Veeti Miettinen etc
Imagine Mikael Granlund was so hyped and compared to older junior talents he was considered a god. This is the biggest sign of how big steps Finland has taken since then. Players born late 90´s, or 94 and after are on another level. Just wow! This is good for hockey. I remember the Czechs had a good team in Nagano 98. I truly believe Finland could match their upset if there would be a big tournament in the nearest future.
Heiskanen-Välimäki (even if he is a lefty because I know Jalonen wants it left-right).
Lehtonen-Ristolainen (flourishes with less ice time)
Lindell-Jokiharju
Vatanen, Määttä, Hakanpää, Nutivaara, Heinola, Niemelä, Juolevi, Niku, Vaakanainen, Laaksonen, Aron Kiviharju etc.
I believe Niemelä being a right handed D could get in that roster sooner than later.
Rask, Rinne, Saros, Lankinen, Korpisalo, Kähkönen, Vehviläinen, Husso, Luukkonen, who knows perhaps even Lassi Lehtinen in the future.
This kind of a roster under Jalonens organization in OG´s? Biggest medal candidate after Canada for me. USA, Sweden and Russia are at the same level but it seems like Finland would have a great chemistry with these different kind of players and this combined with their talented coaches? Lethal.
Teräväinen-Aho-Puljujärvi (seems to reach his potential after all)
Hintz-Lundell-Kakko (I believe he could flourish with more trust and good mates)
Kapanen(because of his skating)-Kotkaniemi-Armia(So underrated, had another organization drafted him he would probably turned out as top6 wing)
Donskoi, Mikael Granlund, Luostarinen, Lehkonen, Tolvanen, Vesalainen, Kuokkanen, Ruotsalainen, Julius Nättinen, Hartikainen etc
Younger players in the nearest future: Lambert, Kupari, Heponiemi, Maccelli, Aatu Räty, Jesse Nurmi, Veeti Miettinen etc
Imagine Mikael Granlund was so hyped and compared to older junior talents he was considered a god. This is the biggest sign of how big steps Finland has taken since then. Players born late 90´s, or 94 and after are on another level. Just wow! This is good for hockey. I remember the Czechs had a good team in Nagano 98. I truly believe Finland could match their upset if there would be a big tournament in the nearest future.
Heiskanen-Välimäki (even if he is a lefty because I know Jalonen wants it left-right).
Lehtonen-Ristolainen (flourishes with less ice time)
Lindell-Jokiharju
Vatanen, Määttä, Hakanpää, Nutivaara, Heinola, Niemelä, Juolevi, Niku, Vaakanainen, Laaksonen, Aron Kiviharju etc.
I believe Niemelä being a right handed D could get in that roster sooner than later.
Rask, Rinne, Saros, Lankinen, Korpisalo, Kähkönen, Vehviläinen, Husso, Luukkonen, who knows perhaps even Lassi Lehtinen in the future.
This kind of a roster under Jalonens organization in OG´s? Biggest medal candidate after Canada for me. USA, Sweden and Russia are at the same level but it seems like Finland would have a great chemistry with these different kind of players and this combined with their talented coaches? Lethal.
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Adele Dazeem
Registered User
They're underrated because they're easily the worst out of the top-5.
Weak bottom-6
Their top-end guys are decent but the rest of the top-5 easily matches them (except for maybe Sweden)
Defense isn't anything to brag about
Goaltending is either getting too old (Rask/Rinne) or too unproven (Saros/Husso/Luuk)
Weak bottom-6
Their top-end guys are decent but the rest of the top-5 easily matches them (except for maybe Sweden)
Defense isn't anything to brag about
Goaltending is either getting too old (Rask/Rinne) or too unproven (Saros/Husso/Luuk)
Svedu
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2019
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You are wrong. I`m gonna explain why. The thing is you seem to be that type of person who is underrating such players as Hintz (Top6 forward in the NHL without doubt), Armia, is there anyone in the NHL that is more underrated than him? Lundell will probably grow to become elite or at least top6 in two years. Then you have Kotkaniemi as a fourth center and he is a potential top6 as well. Kapanen is just a perfect fourth liner with his speed, you can threat your opponents in any given time with counters. Kakko could grow so much in the right environment, make no mistake about it. And if he doesn't, well throw in Donskoi or even Mikael Granlund and you still have a more than capable line.
Aho and Teräväinen have great chemistry and Aho also played with Puljujärvi in Kärpät and the world juniors, don't underestimate the chemistry between players.
Laine-Barkov-Rantanen, I mean honestly, do I have to say more? Probably one of the absolute best first lines from Europe if not the best.
Even if it's a long shot, with Lamberts speed you could even get a great third or fourth winger in two years because the kid can already fly on the ice. He needs body mass and maturity.
The D´s then, perhaps the righters are our biggest weakness right now, but it's not bad by any means. There are more than decent players in every position and you never know if Heinola, Välimäki, Niemelä or perhaps even Juolevi explodes in one or two years.
No, Rask is still considered as one of the best ever and he is easily top5 in the NHL if he decides to continue. So no, he's still probably better than a big prospect such as Hart etc. Again, don't fool yourself. Rinne as a backup should be quite decent. Saros is perhaps a wild card for now but the potential is there and in Lankinen as well. He has already shown his talent on the international level. Kähkönen could become a great third option as well and Korpisalo is a starter for his team so...
I´m actually quite sure Finland would take a medal in a best of best.
Last but not least, don't forget Finland has that lion heart sisu combined with great organization, don't underestimate that.
Adele Dazeem
Registered User
Respectfully disagree, even if I might be underrating them, you are clearly overrating them.
I don't see anywhere (F, D or G) where they are objectively better than the top-4 (stats, number of stars...)
I don't see anywhere (F, D or G) where they are objectively better than the top-4 (stats, number of stars...)
The reality is that CAN, RUS, USA and SWE nearly always have the better individuals, but Finland gets around it by better coaching and work ethic. Hence, they are "underestimated" simply because the players are not as good, despite the better system which brings great results.
Lack of succes after gold medal finishes are easily explained. After every golden tournament we hire some fool as coach to the next one. After 2016 it was Rautakorpi, after 2019 Helminen etc.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
When they have success, it’s that.
However, they usually don’t medal and often times have the worst roster of the big five countries.
They are all or nothing with their team most years. If they all buy in, they’ll sisu their way to a medal with no one expecting them to medal.
QnebO
Wheel, snipe, celly
- Feb 11, 2010
- 9,763
- 644
Dont medal? When did finland not medal
Problem is that other countries are over-rating their own players and under-rating Finnish players. Barkov, Aho, Rantanen, Laine are trly good forward group that they think they are far, far ahead of, but the reality is, they are not.
mattihp
Registered User
What is this post really based on? Surely not on fact.
What I have to agree with is that Finland does seem to do better where there are no or low expectations.
Usually don't medal was something new, I must have been watching another team .
Forget LehtonenWell... Not the big mass perhaps, but those few leaders were on the same or higher level. You could compare Forsberg to Teräväinen, even if Forsberg was considered the bigger prospect I would choose Teräväinen before him. Biased? Perhaps, I just like his game more. Then we had Saros, who would probably benefitted of another organization selecting him instead of competing with Pekka Rinne. Because Saros performances from that tournament is top2 the last twelve years, at least for me.
Some of Swedens bigger talents from that year didn't manage to succeed at pro level, Collberg for instant. De La Rose is no star either.
Besides Teräväinen and Saros there was Lindell, Ristolainen, Lehkonen, Mikko Lehtonen and you never know, perhaps even Husso becomes an NHL goalie someday. Afterwards we could say it was a decent roster on paper as well, especially defensively.
So, compared to Sweden and their players I wouldn't state that the difference was huge as some would. Bigger depth, yes. With Forsberg, Dansk, Wennberg, Lindholm, Johnsson, Burakovsky, Sundqvist.
Last but not least and important to mention is that this was still a year Team Sweden had more talents than most years, especially when you compare to this years roster. It's not common to see that depth from Sweden in my opinion, not these last years that is.
When it comes to elite talent these five last years? Finland is up there with both Russia and Sweden in my opinion. It takes only a couple of names to mention and then it becomes obvious: Aho, Barkov, Rantanen, Kakko, Laine, Heiskanen. Then you have really good players, potential late bloomers outside them, and also upcoming players as well in: Lundell, Heinola, Niemelä, Hintz, Kapanen, Saros, Luukkonen, Puljujärvi, Nättinen, Kupari, Kuokkanen, Juolevi, Lambert, Räty, Jokiharju, Vaakanainen, Viro, Puutio, Nikkanen, Maccelli, Tolvanen, Vesalainen, Salo, Välimäki, Koivula, Borgström, Niku etc.
Even if i don't want to name young players but... There is legit prospects coming up in: Kiviharju, Jesse Nurmi, Joakim Kemell, Vali, Vinni Topias Hynninen etc.
Excuse me for this long post but some Swedes need to wake up and give Finland the respect they deserve. I mean look at their best player Zibanejad, even he is half Finnish
No, I just don't think Sweden or Russia have bigger talents these last years.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Before this year they hadn't gotten silver or bronze in the last 14 years. The trend has been Gold or bust of late.
lawrence
Registered User
- May 19, 2012
- 16,705
- 7,625
they actually are.
Ever since they beat Canada in Nagano, they are considered one of the big 5's at every major tournament.
QnebO
Wheel, snipe, celly
- Feb 11, 2010
- 9,763
- 644
What games you talk about exactly? Sochi 2014 olympic meal, 2018 korea no medal, but it wasnt best on best olympics anyway - 2019 whc gold, 2016whc medal, 2014 whc medal, lots of WJC / u18 golds and medals.. . Im feeling like theres around 50% chance that Finland medals in any given games. We dont usually steamroll the top countries, so theres a chance that the games end in quarter final. Always its thight battle.
So where they havent got bronze or silver in 14 years. Olympics, 2014 medal, whc 2019 gold, WJC lotta of golds.. Actually I just realized your probably a troll and I have wasted my time, but what ever
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Non-gold medals within the last 14 years/since 2007:
2007 World Championship: Silver
2008 World Championship: Bronze
2010 Olympics: Bronze
2014 Olympics: Bronze
2014 World Championship: Silver
2016 World Championship: Silver
In the future, do some research before you speak...
He is talking about U20 Championships. And the last bronze medal is from 2006 before this years.
This is the new education work in Finland. The last decsade was much better than 0ern. This is now the new generation.
Conspiracy Theorist
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2016
- 5,860
- 2,097
That may be true but Finland clearly trending up ward since 2014. I would not prefer Russia or Sweden with one gold in the last decade.
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