Why is Finland better than Sweden at junior level?

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Yeah Finland has had better success in junior world championships.
But that junior world championships success hasn't translated yet IIHF men's worlds.

Sweden has won 3 ( 2013, 2017, 2018) IIHF men's worlds gold medals in 5 yrs ( starting 2013).
Meanwhile Finland has won only three medals ( 1 gold and 2 silvers) in IIHF men's worlds in 7 yrs starting for 2011.

This fact proves that Sweden has performed much better than Finland in IIHF men's worlds.
Also Sweden has 2 ( Sundin and Dahlin) 1st overall picks in NHL draft.

Where's Finland's 1st overall picks are we even ever get those.

 

[illone84]

Yeah Finland has had better success in junior world championships.
But that junior world championships success hasn't translated yet IIHF men's worlds.

Sweden has won 3 ( 2013, 2017, 2018) IIHF men's worlds gold medals in 5 yrs ( starting 2013).
Meanwhile Finland has won only two medals ( gold 2011 and silver 2016) in IIHF men's worlds in 7 yrs.

This fact proves brutally that Sweden has performed much better than Finland in IIHF men's worlds.
Also Sweden has 2 ( Sundin and Dahlin) 1st overall picks in NHL draft.

Where's Finland's 1st overall picks are we even ever get those.

Where did the 2014 Men's silver disappear to?

 

[FinPanda]

Where did the 2014 Men's silver disappear to?

That was the worst finnish mens team I can remember in a long time at the WHC and somehow they won something. Still don't know how they did it.

 

[ijuka]

Where's Finland's 1st overall picks are we even ever get those.

The only possibility in quite some time is Aatu Räty because he's a center, I guess. The outside chance is if Honka has the kind of a season I expect him to have(0.8-0.9PPG in Liiga), but it still might not be enough. Would Heiskanen have gone #1OA in 2018 if this was when he was first available, after his last season in Liiga?

 

[Nate070]

Feels like Finland always had some great players. Koivu was good, Selanne was god. Will Sweden ever get a realy good sniper? I dont mean a one hit wonder like Wild Bill probably are(i realy hope im wrong here and that he is a late bloomer). We need a trigger happy supersniper. I thought about this a long time. Just wanted to cry when Laine showed up. Wtf Finland now i will have a heavy anxiety every time he is on the ice agains us? Hate that. You gotva lot of young stars but top end snipers are the worst. They can stand minding there own buisness ,even looking bored, and woopdadoodle the puck is in the net. We need one of those.

So who do you offer for Laine? Talking about a high end D-man? To be honest, this kind of snipers are so fun to watch so I would say no

 

[Nate070]

Yeah Finland has had better success in junior world championships.
But that junior world championships success hasn't translated yet IIHF men's worlds.

Sweden has won 3 ( 2013, 2017, 2018) IIHF men's worlds gold medals in 5 yrs ( starting 2013).
Meanwhile Finland has won only three medals ( 1 gold and 2 silvers) in IIHF men's worlds in 7 yrs starting for 2011.

This fact proves that Sweden has performed much better than Finland in IIHF men's worlds.
Also Sweden has 2 ( Sundin and Dahlin) 1st overall picks in NHL draft.

Where's Finland's 1st overall picks are we even ever get those.

Honestly, entertainment wise the World juniors easily beat the senior tournament

 

[ZEBROA]

So who do you offer for Laine? Talking about a high end D-man? To be honest, this kind of snipers are so fun to watch so I would say no

Erik Karlsson is fun to watch, would not offer him thou. I dont want to offer anything , i just want a sniper. Hoping for Holtz to be somewhat good sniper, maby the best Sweden ever had.

 

[rickardr]

The outside chance is if Honka has the kind of a season I expect him to have(0.8-0.9PPG in Liiga), but it still might not be enough.

Hughes is going 1st overall tho, there is no one close to him.

 

[BonAppleTea]

The only possibility in quite some time is Aatu Räty because he's a center, I guess. The outside chance is if Honka has the kind of a season I expect him to have(0.8-0.9PPG in Liiga), but it still might not be enough. Would Heiskanen have gone #1OA in 2018 if this was when he was first available, after his last season in Liiga?

If Heiskanen had the same Liiga season as a 17 year old, probably yea. But I guess everyone else in the world would have been pushed up one year as well if that was the case? Or are we just reversing Heiskanens aging and no one else? If they were all pushed forward, probably not first overall. In either case it makes about as much sense as saying "What if this apple was an orange but still tasted like an apple?"

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Hughes is going 1st overall tho, there is no one close to him.

Kakko should be top 2.

 

[ZEBROA]

Never have high hopes for Sweden in Juniors.

 

[ijuka]

If Heiskanen had the same Liiga season as a 17 year old, probably yea.

No, I mean Heiskanen is a July 18 1999 birthday. What if he'd been a September 18 1999 birthday instead and had been up for draft in 2018, after this past season(as a 18-year-old, not 17-year-old)?

Remember Heiskanen wasn't gushed about at all before the 16-17 season, actually he was barely a first rounder.

 

[93LEAFS]

Big picture.

U18 Teams Canada are worst under performer, considering status of the game in Canada, size of available player pool (both absolutely and relatively per capita), quality of junior programmes/leagues, and success in U20 tournaments.

Combined medals:

Finland: 8-7-10 = 25
Sweden: 2-16-9 = 27
Canada: 20-10-8 = 38

Canada underachieves at the u-18's due to the fact we don't send our best possible team. CHL is still ongoing at that point so generally anyone who makes it past the 2nd round (taking away at a minimum 12 of 60 teams rosters). USA dominates because they built there flagship development program around it. For example, for this years U-18's Canada was missing NHL first-rounders due to this. The most notable absences are Dobson and Hayton (best eligible Canadian center and defender), but we were also missing Jacob Bernard-Docker. Other years, some of the talent we don't send is ridiculous, in 2015 for example, we didn't send McDavid (we wouldn't have even if he was available, he'd be at the Men's worlds), Strome, and Marner. In 2013 we were missing MacKinnon, Drouin, Horvat, and Max Domi due to all of them making the memorial cup. Now, other teams lose some players due to this system, but not as significantly. The Finns lost their best defender in 2016 due to this (Juolevi) for example.