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Why is Finland better than Sweden at junior level?

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How many medals Sweden have in both age-groups? Finland have been capable to win the gold medal games in pretty high percentage.
 
I don't see much difference in coaching or players talent level. Maybe it's just Finland having less players to choose from compared to Sweden, meaning most players have played together for years before U-18/U-20 tournaments which results into better chemistry between the players in those tournaments.

Or maybe it's just Finland having their best period in hockey right now compared to Sweden's not so hot period when it comes to producing top end talent. Yeah, they got Dahlin and Pettersson right now but before that it was pretty quiet for what we were used to when it comes to Sweden producing top end talents.
 
Finland has been better in recent years, because we took the wrong path at junion level development at one point. But even if Sweden has twice the population, don't underestimate the power football has in that country. In Sweden football is #1, and no doubt many of the promising young kids choose that instead of hockey.
 
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While winning gold at these tournaments is definitely cool, the only thing that really matters in terms of development is that you're up there competing every year, as evidenced by the amount of good players Sweden has produced while only winning two U20 golds. None of Lidström, Sundin, Forsberg, Näslund, Alfredsson, Zetterberg, the Sedins, Bäckström, Karlsson or Hedman have a U20 gold.

The last time we won gold Max Friberg was our top scorer, and he has a whopping 6 NHL games under his belt.
 
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Some countries are just better and have more successful/lucky periods than other countries. Using the past 5 years as a sample size both countries have made 2 appearances in the final, only difference is Finland capitalized on both those opportunities and won gold while Sweden took silver.

4 golds for Finland at the World Juniors vs 2 for Sweden doesn't tell the entire story, Sweden has 11 silver medals at the World Juniors, in other words Sweden has been in the gold medal game 13 times compared to Finland's 8 all time appearances, I'd say its overall very comparable.

Finland looks to have more killer instinct, when it gets to the final it usually tends to win.
 
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We've had our fair share of success in the juniors in the past so I'm not concerned. If I remember correctly I read an interview with Selanne who said that Finland had worked very much on developing the individual strengths of the players, instead of having a group focus. It seems that paid off.

Unlike many of my fellow Swedes I enjoy watching talents no matter if they are from Sweden or Finland.

I'm sure we'll bounce back, but in meantime I'll enjoy watching all talents Finland is having right now.
 
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swedish coaches are the problem. at senior level finland is also better than sweden in general.

bengt åke gustavsson, hardy nilsson, pär mårts, grönborg, bendelin, staffan lundh, monten....are all same type of coach.
 
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Hokinaittii said:
I don't see much difference in coaching or players talent level. Maybe it's just Finland having less players to choose from compared to Sweden, meaning most players have played together for years before U-18/U-20 tournaments which results into better chemistry between the players in those tournaments.

Or maybe it's just Finland having their best period in hockey right now compared to Sweden's not so hot period when it comes to producing top end talent. Yeah, they got Dahlin and Pettersson right now but before that it was pretty quiet for what we were used to when it comes to Sweden producing top end talents.
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finland have more registered players than sweden.

hockey is nr 1 in finland, soccer is nr 1 in sweden
 
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Big picture.

FHlZ4t0.png


U18 Teams Canada are worst under performer, considering status of the game in Canada, size of available player pool (both absolutely and relatively per capita), quality of junior programmes/leagues, and success in U20 tournaments.

Combined medals:

Finland: 8-7-10 = 25
Sweden: 2-16-9 = 27
Canada: 20-10-8 = 38
 
DDRhockey said:
Gold at U18:

Finland: 4
Sweden: 0

Gold at U20:

Finland: 4
Sweden: 2

Pretty clear advantage for finland. What is finland doing better?
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I feel like this doesn't really tell the whole story. Sweden has been in the finals many times in the WJC but lost to good canadian teams.

I don't really know why they're not that good at the U18 level but 2 of Finlands gold medals came in the last 3 years so that's very recent. Prior to that their last gold medal was in the 99/00 season.

The U18's has traditionally been a tournament dominated by the Americans since they have a huge advantage of having a team which play together all season long, so I don't know if you can draw that many conclusions from that tournament.

In fact Sweden lost three straight finals in the U18's to USA from 2010-2012, while Finland lost to them last year and in 14/15.

If you look at the WJC Sweden have been a much more competitive team than Finland in the last decade. Since 2007-08 Sweden has placed 2, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 2 whereas Finland has placed 6, 7, 5, 6, 4, 7, 1, 4, 1, 5 and they went out in the QF's this year. Finland has one more gold medal but it doesn't really tell the whole story.
 
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After the shared Worlds with Sweden in 2012 & 2013 a lot of the income went to the talent developement. Finland looked to Sweden to see what they were doing right and so Finland started to focus on individual talent instead of workhorses and the results are very visible from Barkov to Tolvanen etc.
 
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Paul Maurice said:
I'll gladly swap our junior success to their adult success.
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what success?

losing to finland in olympics 1998? losing to canada in world cup 1996? losing to belarus in 2002? losing to czech in 2004? losing to slovakia 2010? losing to team europe in 2016? losing to germany in 2018? sweden is a loser nation. no other big nation have that bad track record as sweden has in best on best tournaments.
 
Eye of Ra said:
what success?

losing to finland in olympics 1998? losing to canada in world cup 1996? losing to belarus in 2002? losing to czech in 2004? losing to slovakia 2010? losing to team europe in 2016? losing to germany in 2018? sweden is a loser nation. no other big nation have that bad track record as sweden has in best on best tournaments.
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Years 2006 and 2014 don't count or what?
 
Salmonsnake said:
2006 stings but I guess otherwise it's fairly comparable when it comes to best-on-best.
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not even close. finland do not make a fool of themself in qf like sweden does. finland do not lose to nations as germany, belarus, slovakia and finland do not lose with 1-6 against czech.

and did you forget 1998 when finland won in nagano?
 
Hmm. One thing sure in this Finland vs. Sweden debate, regardless of level of tournament, being it U18 or Olympics or whatever is that for both nations, each of them the worst thing is to lose to another in a game of hockey.

Several thousand TVs were violenty broken in Finland when that one particular game between Finland and Sweden, that was 5-1 piece meal for Finland ended 6-5 win for Sweden. I can still recall that physical feeling... guts rising up to the throat... and following overconsumption of alcohol to get 'safety-drunken'...

I think fellow Nordic brothers know very well what I mean. Events after what happened in Globen 1995 must have been horrible experience to beloved enemy.

It can be really bitter... :laugh:
 
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Eye of Ra said:
not even close. finland do not make a fool of themself in qf like sweden does. finland do not lose to nations as germany, belarus, slovakia and finland do not lose with 1-6 against czech.

and did you forget 1998 when finland won in nagano?
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Okay, 2002 was probably the biggest upset in the modern times of hockey. In 2006, if Sweden really threw the game against Slovakia, it's pretty lame, but anyway, they won when it mattered the most. In 2010, Slovakia really wasn't a weak team. And I wouldn't really count the last Olympics in South Korea... If we count that tourney, why not all the IIHF WCs, where Sweden is vastly superior to Finland? And what about the 2016 World Cup? Okay, Sweden lost to Team Europe, but Finland finished last. Any way I look at it, questioning Sweden's success at the senior level seems out of place for me.
 
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