Why I think Canada is in a lull with producing goalies

[Crosby2010]

So that's the big issue now. Not that I am terribly worried about goaltending in international tournaments because I think we have good - but not great - goalies who at the very least can be Chris Osgood-like and not screw things up and be rather steady. In other words, Canada normally doesn't need a goalie to stand on his head for them to win, although it helps. The WJC recently showed goaltending was the least of our problems in team/coach selection.

But why has there been a sharp drop in Canadian born goalies? Here is my thought as to a contributing factor. Obviously goalies were Canadian in the 1960s and 1970s and most in the 1980s as well. Well into the 1990s at least half of the best goalies in the NHL were Canadian and I'd say even into the 2000s. Half of them were Canadian at least, and half of the elite ones were too. My thought is Patrick Roy was a huge reason why there was a flood of Quebec born goalies in the 1990s and 2000s. Roy popularized the butterfly and he won Cups with Montreal and the Habs were a constant threat to win every year mostly because of him. This was heightened interest in hockey in Quebec. The Habs were good. It is hard to believe now, but Montreal was a regular contender for the Cup up until the mid 1990s. Which coincided with Roy being traded. But by 1995 so many goalies in the NHL were from Quebec. And more were coming. Luongo, Fleury, etc. kept that going later on. I think a lot of this was Roy's influence. A French-Canadian goalie winning Cups and Vezinas in Montreal for the most storied franchise. So obviously this is nothing new, people have always credited Roy with this goaltending boom in Quebec.

But I think part of the reason why we aren't seeing it is #1 Canada hasn't had a team that has won a Cup in 32 years. There isn't that goalie that kids want to emulate. Stuart Skinner almost won a Cup. But he still wasn't the face of the Oilers. This is a problem overall I think. Not seeing a Canadian team successful probably hurts a lot of potential of kids wanting to be in the NHL and playing hockey. But what is worse is the mediocre play of Montreal in the last 30 years. Yes, Theodore and Price won a Hart. And Price was definitely good for a much longer stretch of time than Theodore and winning gold for Canada helped too at the Olympics. But Montreal has never had that sustained dominance or even just a good team for a good stretch in a long time. If Price had a good team around him and Montreal was a perennial contender year after year I could see a new found interest in goalies. He isn't French Canadian though, which might have been part of the issue. But either way a successful Montreal Canadiens franchise is good for hockey in Canada - and I am a Leaf fan saying this. I hate seeing Montreal mediocre all of the time and scraping to make the playoffs - at best. It wasn't what many of us grew up seeing either. And I think a mediocre Habs team for so long has stripped away a lot of interest in what used to be a goaltending factory - the province of Quebec.

The Habs haven't made the playoffs since 2021. And the year after they were the worst team in the NHL. This has to change. Honestly, the NHL is lacking French Canadians in general but I think not having that flagship goalie on a Canadian franchise is hurting too.

My two cents.

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[WarriorofTime]

Being a goalie isn’t cool. Bad development. Just stick a kid in net and have him absorb pucks and see what happens to see who emerges. Traditional reluctance to having goalies go ncaa route. It could be worth humbling themselves a bit and bringing in someone that has worked with European goaltenders. They have way fewer teams and thus are producing way more high quality goalies on a per capita basis.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Stéphane Waite talks about this quite normally and his theory is that the philosophy of coaching goaltenders in Canada is wrong. They are taught to be completely technical without being reactionary. As a result, the more off the cuff style of a Fleury who can make saves without having his feet perfectly set has more or less disappeared in minor and junior hockey

 

[Le Golie]

I think competition is a part of it too. Staying for three or four years in the CHL isn’t as good for development compared to the elite Euros and Americans practicing and playing with men in pro leagues and NCAA by the time they are 18/19.

Also, size is often prioritized over athleticism right from U9. Not that someone can’t have both, but the kids who don’t have great size aren’t getting the AAA coaching and competition in the early development years and it’s hard to catch up later.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Something that doesn't help is that if your kid wants to be a goalie, it's on you to hire your own goalie coach for him at absurd rates. I have a second cousin who's a AAA goalie hoping to get a US scholarship when he's older and the dad is paying like $25k a year for a private goalie coach to help him develop. I believe some other top hockey nations will support young goalies by having goalie coaches on their youth teams already.

Hockey already costs a lot for any position but high level goaltending really prices some families out of the process.

 

[Czechboy]

There is a thread on the 'mains' about the Athletic rankings for mid season awards.

Canada had 2 goalies in the Vezina race. What is interesting is that neither is on the 4 nations team... Thompson and Blackwood.

Another neat aside is that the top 4 is 2 Czechs (Dostal and Vej), a yank (Helle) and a Swede (sorry, can't remember which one). No Russians, Finns or Canucks in top 4.

My point? Goalies are voodoo and totally unpredictable. Canada always has the biggest pool of goalies and are still good. But they can't seem to create that decade long Vezina run type goalie anymore but I'm not sure anyone is?

 

[Crosby2010]

There is a thread on the 'mains' about the Athletic rankings for mid season awards.

Canada had 2 goalies in the Vezina race. What is interesting is that neither is on the 4 nations team... Thompson and Blackwood.

Another neat aside is that the top 4 is 2 Czechs (Dostal and Vej), a yank (Helle) and a Swede (sorry, can't remember which one). No Russians, Finns or Canucks in top 4.

My point? Goalies are voodoo and totally unpredictable. Canada always has the biggest pool of goalies and are still good. But they can't seem to create that decade long Vezina run type goalie anymore but I'm not sure anyone is?

It could be that this type of goalie died with the Lundqvist/Luongo types. Maybe Price or Fleury to an extent. You're right, there just isn't the sustained dominance of a goalie anymore. I think Bobrovsky and Hellbuyck are fine goalies, but I think the reason they have stood out is more because there isn't those decade long Vezina-type goalies anymore. Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour even. I guess in a way the 1980s had a lull of great goalies too after the Dryden generation flamed out. Took a while for Roy to hit his stride and in between you had basically dynasty goalies in Smith and Fuhr, but an abundance of goalies getting the Vezina. Maybe it goes in cycles, I don't know. But yeah I think Canada still has capable and even good goalies, its just that there were always those goalies where you knew they were Hall of Famers as they were playing. Can't see that now. Not with Canadians.

 

[Czechboy]

It could be that this type of goalie died with the Lundqvist/Luongo types. Maybe Price or Fleury to an extent. You're right, there just isn't the sustained dominance of a goalie anymore. I think Bobrovsky and Hellbuyck are fine goalies, but I think the reason they have stood out is more because there isn't those decade long Vezina-type goalies anymore. Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour even. I guess in a way the 1980s had a lull of great goalies too after the Dryden generation flamed out. Took a while for Roy to hit his stride and in between you had basically dynasty goalies in Smith and Fuhr, but an abundance of goalies getting the Vezina. Maybe it goes in cycles, I don't know. But yeah I think Canada still has capable and even good goalies, its just that there were always those goalies where you knew they were Hall of Famers as they were playing. Can't see that now. Not with Canadians.

I think Lundqvist was the last one? Growing up it felt like there were so many like that.. Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, Lundqvist, Rinne, Kiprusoff, Price etc.

The Russians sure rose up but no one is on a decade long heater here. You're right, closest are Helle and Bob. Maybe I'm missing someone?

Bob and Helle with 2. Helle seems on his way to 3. Even MAF only has 1. Maybe Shesterskin takes off and starts dominating?

 

[Bjorn Le]

I think it has more to do with the cost of hockey. To become an NHL player it already could cost parents six figures, and goalies are probably the most expensive as is. The best Canadian athletes don’t pick goalie and the for the ones that do, a lot have become priced out of being a goalie by most elite players start attending summer development camps in their tweens/early teens. I had friends choose goal as a young kid, but by 14/15 I didn’t know any goalies who were not from wealthy families. Suspect that is true in most of the country.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It seems very situational to me. Russia has no centers. Why is that for a country with their hockey history and hockey playing population? Czechia has very few defensemen, so does Finland.

I guess USA and Sweden don’t have that notable hole right now, but it seems like they probably will at some point soon and this stuff will flip around.

 

[Czechboy]

Czechia has very few defensemen

What? Sounds made up... we have Gudas, Hronek and, also, Hronek and Gudas. We're set!

 

[Fantomas]

Russia has no centers.

Truly infuriating. Not a single person in Russia can win a freaking faceoff. Makes me want to punch a wall.

 

[cjm502]

The talent pool is not lacking, the developmental system is flawed as the kids are being overcoached in a way. Canadian goalies are being taught to be way too technical from a young age. It would benefit kids to work on athleticism, learn how to make the big desperation saves, and thrive in the chaos before bringing them pro level technical coaching. Being sound technically from a young age helps younger players dominate while they're still kids, but once those kids get to the junior level the cracks start to show. Essentially, the "how to goalie for beginners" book is only being skimmed over so they can rush in to the "how to goalie for experts" book.

Maybe 4ish years ago, someone on here did a really good write up on this whole theory and I have no idea who the poster was, what the thread title might have been, or even what subforum it was in.