Why has Chris Ilitch not stepped in to assist Vladimir Konstantinov?

[jaster]

1000%

I'm so tired of seeing "heartwarming" stories of people donating to someone's GoFundMe for medical bills when really it's totally sad and f***ed that it comes to that for so many.

More to the topic, I no longer live in Detroit but have noticed Chris Illitch seems to be painted as a villain. but as Jaster pointed out Mike Illitch was hardly a saint, particularly when it came to LCA and the city of Detroit. He was overall a great owner of the Red Wings but you don't amass that kind of wealth without doing some awful things.

Oh god, my in-laws love the GoFundMe stories. They're the types who need to know who's being helped though. Like, friends, family, and fellow church members. Maybe one layer beyond that, if a friend vouches for someone else. Anyone else is suspicious, they're 'the other', and they're someone else's problem. They of course despise the fact that they pay taxes, since that money only goes to lazy people and cheats. But GoFundMes? What a perfect solution, always on the up and up, and always people they can see themselves helping if they actually knew them.

I'm sure they'd help Vladdy if I told them to

 

[jaster]

Can someone explain to me how the whole District Detroit area not materializing happens?

Anytime I have ever heard of a city building a new stadium and creating a new development around it, that is exactly what ends up happening.

How do you just not fulfill that? (I am not from the area, sorry if this is a dumb question)

It's complicated and simple at the same time. The simple explanation is that the city of Detroit for decades has been some combination of poor, corrupt, and incompetent; and desperate. Meanwhile, the Ilitches are powerful, and well-connected to many members of the city council. It's historically been a combination that has easily allowed the Ilitches to control much of what happens in Detroit, run roughshod over the city's best interests, and not only get away with unfulfilled promises, but then lie that they've actually exceeded what was promised and, oh yeah, they also need more taxpayer money in the meantime so if you could just approve that real quick that would be great thaaaaaaanks a bunch.

I mean, if you have any interest in Detroit, anything invested in it, any love for it, nostalgia, whatever.... then what the Ilitches have done the past couple decades can be construed as nothing short of offensive.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Can someone explain to me how the whole District Detroit area not materializing happens?

Anytime I have ever heard of a city building a new stadium and creating a new development around it, that is exactly what ends up happening.

How do you just not fulfill that? (I am not from the area, sorry if this is a dumb question)

it's the government allowing it to happen, basically. The reason why so many of those projects are always completed? There are massive clawbacks in the agreements if they don't. Detroit's city council was corrupt, incompetent, and incompentely corrupt for decades, so Mr. I, Dan Gilbert, and Peter Karmanos kind of all swept in with big dollars and carved a lot of the development up and the city thanked them for basically ransacking them.

Now, they did provide money and did develop good portions of the city, so I don't want to just 100% demonize them, but businessmen are pretty much always not doing things out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[Killerjas]

People angry about a millionaire not donating when they themselves are not donating aswell.

 

[norrisnick]

People angry about a millionaire not donating when they themselves are not donating aswell.

Wrong consonant (for the family as a whole anyway). Billionaires exist solely because of exploitation of those below. So it's pretty reasonable to be angry about it. Everything is tilted in their favor and by design, because they make the rules.

And to expand, those rules are what put Konstantinov in the situation he's currently in. People at the top can't make money off of it? Ok, let's kick everyone out of the safety net.

 

[Gniwder]

Not true.
Jesus. Mike Ilitch spent on things he wanted to spend on.
Anyway - with changes to autoinsurance - the Konstantinovs should go after the Ilitches since this was a team event.

And while I agree with criticism of US health care (or lack of it), the kind of care that Vladdie is getting is not your basic service - and is likely far superior to the kind of service available in countries with gov't health care services.

You expect your employer to cover you if you get in an accident going home from a company event?

Good luck with that.

 

[MBH]

You expect your employer to cover you if you get in an accident going home from a company event?

Good luck with that.

Yep.
Who paid for the limo?
If it was the team ...
Though I wonder about the statute of limitations I suppose

 

[ColdToiletSeats]

Konstantinov isn't even on the roster anymore

 

[MBH]

1000%

I'm so tired of seeing "heartwarming" stories of people donating to someone's GoFundMe for medical bills when really it's totally sad and f***ed that it comes to that for so many.

More to the topic, I no longer live in Detroit but have noticed Chris Illitch seems to be painted as a villain. but as Jaster pointed out Mike Illitch was hardly a saint, particularly when it came to LCA and the city of Detroit. He was overall a great owner of the Red Wings but you don't amass that kind of wealth without doing some awful things.

The whole "bakesales for cancer" thing is too sad to talk about.

Konstantinov isn't even on the roster anymore

True, true.
I guess I didn't realize that.

 

[drw02]

This is all stems from a recent change to Michigan's auto insurance policy intended to save money for the average person, sadly at the expense of those who suffer from traumatic injuries and are unable to care or support themselves

No-fault auto opponents get high-profile supporter in call for change

Former Red Wings defenseman Vladimir Konstantinov stands to lose his medical care as a result of no-fault insurance reforms. He joins others in calling for fixes in the law.

www.detroitnews.com

New law puts NHL great Konstantinov's 24/7 care in jeopardy

Ex-Red Wings star Vladimir Konstantinov is in danger of losing the round-the-clock medical care he has had since he nearly died in a 1997 limousine crash.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[Gniwder]

Yep.
Who paid for the limo?
If it was the team ...
Though I wonder about the statute of limitations I suppose

I doubt the team did, but even had they paid for the limo the whole point of hiring a limo is so that the liability is on the limo company. Once again, if your company hired a limo for you and it crashed, do you think your company would be the one paying?

Not sure why you think normal laws don't apply to the Red WIngs....

 

[Retire91]

That's a failure of the US govt, not of Chris Ilitch. How many people that get themselves into a similar situation never make the news and get forgotten by society? Why aren't we helping all of them?

Imagine living in such a shithole country that you can be victim of a terrible accident and then have to pay millions of dollars to healthcare CEOs for the rest of your life just to maintain some minimum standard of living.

I agree but I also generally fault the multi millionaires and even a billionaire in his circle, maybe they do help out in ways we don't know about though.

However I agree wiht you 100% we need systems that help those that can't help themselves. It really won't even cost as much as people think it did if our monetary systems weren't such a monopoly game s**t show. Anyway I don't want to start a political war, I just wnat to say I hope in the future we start taking better care of each other.

I through a few bucks in the go fund me 3 or 4 times a year. Even 5 or 10 dollars helps, it adds up.

 

[MBH]

I doubt the team did, but even had they paid for the limo the whole point of hiring a limo is so that the liability is on the limo company. Once again, if your company hired a limo for you and it crashed, do you think your company would be the one paying?

Not sure why you think normal laws don't apply to the Red WIngs....

Normal laws? WTF does that mean?
The laws changed.
Things were taken care of to XX degree under the old autoinsurance laws.
If Konstantinov's family believes he needs XX degree, and the old laws no longer work, they may need a new remedy.

I think the statute of limitations is long passed anyway.

Anyway, here's an interesting read on how some of the legal drama took place.

Tragedy and litigation

More than a decade has passed since a limousine crash in Birmingham ended the careers of Red Wings star Vladimir Konstantinov and team masseur Sergei...

www.metrotimes.com

In fact, Fetisov, Konstantinov and Mnatsakanov initially sued Gnida and the limo company, whose insurance policy had a $2 million limit. That case, filed in 2008 in Oakland County Circuit Court, ended with a three-person mediation panel's unanimous award for the former Red Wings.

But because the men's damages exceeded the insurance policy's limit, the limo company and Gnida sought coverage from the Red Wings' insurers, claiming the team had hired the limousine and its policies should cover the victims. For the injured players and masseur to collect, they had to pursue the insurance companies that wrote the policies for the team's hired cars. The lead insurers were based in New Jersey so the case progressed there.

 

[Bench]

I just wnat to say I hope in the future we start taking better care of each other.

Hell yeah.

I truly believe the vast majority of us on this forum and in this nation agree with this. There's a lot of bickering about how to accomplish it, and that's fair, there's a lot of details to sort. But nobody, except a select few, is genuinely happy as is. Nearly everyone seems to agree it can be better and hopefully that's our focus as we move forward this decade.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

He would not have. I know the current trend now is "Mr. I angel, Chris devil".

But come on. Mr. I let Scherzer walk because he had the audacity to turn down 6/144 (a ludicrous underpayment as shown by him getting 7/210 from Washington later that offseason), he let Sergei Fedorov walk because he offered 5/50 and Fedorov said "I need time to think about it".

Pretty much this. I don’t know if it’s just revisionist history or people don’t want to sully the name of MR, but as far as big picture goes he wasn’t a saint either

Edit: it appears my much wiser fellow posters have already echoed this sentiment

Hell yeah.

I truly believe the vast majority of us on this forum and in this nation agree with this. There's a lot of bickering about how to accomplish it, and that's fair, there's a lot of details to sort. But nobody, except a select few, is genuinely happy as is. Nearly everyone seems to agree it can be better and hopefully that's our focus as we move forward this decade.

Haha, sure, keep dreaming.

It’ll be more like this:

The top five percent will still make theirs and look out for themselves and everyone else will continue to suffer, both political parties will go after each other instead of trying to put their heads together and fix this countries problems

 

[Henkka]

That's a failure of the US govt, not of Chris Ilitch. How many people that get themselves into a similar situation never make the news and get forgotten by society? Why aren't we helping all of them?

Imagine living in such a shithole country that you can be victim of a terrible accident and then have to pay millions of dollars to healthcare CEOs for the rest of your life just to maintain some minimum standard of living.

In Finland everything would come from the Government. We just have higher taxrate for rich people to fund this free heatlhcare for everyone. So all "finnish chris ilitches" would fund this thing.

Maybe Konstantinov has better option to move here.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

In Finland everything would come from the Government. We just have higher taxrate for rich people to fund this free heatlhcare for everyone. So all "finnish chris ilitches" would fund this thing.

Maybe Konstantinov has better option to move here.

TIL Henkka is Finnish

 

[TheOtherOne]

In Finland everything would come from the Government. We just have higher taxrate for rich people to fund this free heatlhcare for everyone. So all "finnish chris ilitches" would fund this thing.

Maybe Konstantinov has better option to move here.

I know, in Europe the big evil gubment steals 40% of your salary in tax money! Then takes care of you for no additional cost no matter what happens.

In America we get to keep our salary! Then pay 40% of it to a private insurance company. Then pay thousands more in copays whenever anything happens. Then sell our house to pay for the prescriptions we need.

Excuse my radical progressive ranting.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Normal laws? WTF does that mean?
The laws changed.
Things were taken care of to XX degree under the old autoinsurance laws.
If Konstantinov's family believes he needs XX degree, and the old laws no longer work, they may need a new remedy.

I think the statute of limitations is long passed anyway.

Anyway, here's an interesting read on how some of the legal drama took place.

Tragedy and litigation

More than a decade has passed since a limousine crash in Birmingham ended the careers of Red Wings star Vladimir Konstantinov and team masseur Sergei...

www.metrotimes.com

In fact, Fetisov, Konstantinov and Mnatsakanov initially sued Gnida and the limo company, whose insurance policy had a $2 million limit. That case, filed in 2008 in Oakland County Circuit Court, ended with a three-person mediation panel's unanimous award for the former Red Wings.

But because the men's damages exceeded the insurance policy's limit, the limo company and Gnida sought coverage from the Red Wings' insurers, claiming the team had hired the limousine and its policies should cover the victims. For the injured players and masseur to collect, they had to pursue the insurance companies that wrote the policies for the team's hired cars. The lead insurers were based in New Jersey so the case progressed there.

so this justifies "Konstantinov should go after Ilitch in 2022..." how?

The Red Wings bear no responsibilty for the accident. That was Gambino Limo service and Richard Gnida. Gambino and Gnida tried to get the Wings insurers to foot the bill for exactly what you said... they paid for the service. But it wasn't the Red Wings that caused the accident. It was Gnida and his employer who let him drive with a suspended license.

What Buttkrak is talking about normal laws is that there is no circumstance in which an employer's insurance policy would be liable to cover an employee outside of the course of their business (Red Wings sponsored event or not... this wasn't in the course of playing NHL hockey) even if they provided the transportation, unless said transportation was property of Olympia Entertainment. They contracted with Gambino. Gambino took on the liability. Even in that article it lays out what happened.

Accident.
Victims sue Gnida and Gambino. Get awarded >$2M
Gambino and Gnida sue Red Wings insurers because >$2M is more than their insurance covers. Court says "Red Wings are not liable, so no dice, Gambino"

There isn't a cause for action and there wasn't a cause for action in 1998 for Konstantinov and crew to "go after the Red Wings", even in the vein of the aunt who had to sue her nephew for jumping on her.

 

[MBH]

so this justifies "Konstantinov should go after Ilitch in 2022..." how?

The Red Wings bear no responsibilty for the accident. That was Gambino Limo service and Richard Gnida. Gambino and Gnida tried to get the Wings insurers to foot the bill for exactly what you said... they paid for the service. But it wasn't the Red Wings that caused the accident. It was Gnida and his employer who let him drive with a suspended license.

What Buttkrak is talking about normal laws is that there is no circumstance in which an employer's insurance policy would be liable to cover an employee outside of the course of their business (Red Wings sponsored event or not... this wasn't in the course of playing NHL hockey) even if they provided the transportation, unless said transportation was property of Olympia Entertainment. They contracted with Gambino. Gambino took on the liability. Even in that article it lays out what happened.

Accident.
Victims sue Gnida and Gambino. Get awarded >$2M
Gambino and Gnida sue Red Wings insurers because >$2M is more than their insurance covers. Court says "Red Wings are not liable, so no dice, Gambino"

There isn't a cause for action and there wasn't a cause for action in 1998 for Konstantinov and crew to "go after the Red Wings", even in the vein of the aunt who had to sue her nephew for jumping on her.

They should have went after the ilitches back then.
You can't now.

They sued some company who made limos without seatbelts - they were going after the deepest pockets they could find without going to the deepest pockets in their backyard.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

They should have went after the ilitches back then.
You can't now.

They sued some company who made limos without seatbelts - they were going after the deepest pockets they could find without going to the deepest pockets in their backyard.

Because the one in their backyard had no liability. The Court came out and said that when Gambino and Gnida went after them to help with the >$2M settlement.

They absolutely should not have gone after the Ilitches because that would have been a waste of court fees because the Wings bore no liability. They signed the agreement with Gambino and Gnida was negligent on Gambino's behalf.

Also, seeing that they went after the manufacturer for not including safety belts... don't you think the lawyers would have tried the Ilitches because as you say "look for the deepest pockets". There was absolutely no shot that an action against the Wings to engage their insurance policies would have worked, because Gambino and Gnida tried it and it failed. Also, the Wings donated a pretty damn big amount to Vladdy and Sergei's foundations in the immediate aftermath.

Sorry, but you're 100% wrong on this and the article you shared explained why.

 

[MBH]

Whoever runs this page has an axe to grin with the Ilitches -

Terrible Ilitches

Terrible Ilitches. Gefällt 7.364 Mal · 5 Personen sprechen darüber. Devoted to documenting the Ilitches lies and bad behavior.

www.facebook.com

Lots of great info about how the Ilitches use their clout to acquire tax dollars and make themselves wealthier.

 

[MBH]

Because the one in their backyard had no liability. The Court came out and said that when Gambino and Gnida went after them to help with the >$2M settlement.

They absolutely should not have gone after the Ilitches because that would have been a waste of court fees because the Wings bore no liability. They signed the agreement with Gambino and Gnida was negligent on Gambino's behalf.

Also, seeing that they went after the manufacturer for not including safety belts... don't you think the lawyers would have tried the Ilitches because as you say "look for the deepest pockets". There was absolutely no shot that an action against the Wings to engage their insurance policies would have worked, because Gambino and Gnida tried it and it failed. Also, the Wings donated a pretty damn big amount to Vladdy and Sergei's foundations in the immediate aftermath.

Sorry, but you're 100% wrong on this and the article you shared explained why.

The court said Gnida/Gambino couldn't go after them.
That's nowhere near saying Vladdie and Sergei couldn't.

 

[Gniwder]

Normal laws? WTF does that mean?
The laws changed.
Things were taken care of to XX degree under the old autoinsurance laws.
If Konstantinov's family believes he needs XX degree, and the old laws no longer work, they may need a new remedy.

I think the statute of limitations is long passed anyway.

Anyway, here's an interesting read on how some of the legal drama took place.

Tragedy and litigation

More than a decade has passed since a limousine crash in Birmingham ended the careers of Red Wings star Vladimir Konstantinov and team masseur Sergei...

www.metrotimes.com

In fact, Fetisov, Konstantinov and Mnatsakanov initially sued Gnida and the limo company, whose insurance policy had a $2 million limit. That case, filed in 2008 in Oakland County Circuit Court, ended with a three-person mediation panel's unanimous award for the former Red Wings.

But because the men's damages exceeded the insurance policy's limit, the limo company and Gnida sought coverage from the Red Wings' insurers, claiming the team had hired the limousine and its policies should cover the victims. For the injured players and masseur to collect, they had to pursue the insurance companies that wrote the policies for the team's hired cars. The lead insurers were based in New Jersey so the case progressed there.

Were you expecting me not to read the article? LOL.

"The New Jersey Supreme Court last year ruled the team's policies did not cover the driver or the limousine company, as the victims' attorneys had argued."

That is what I mean by normal rule of law, I wouldn't expect my employer or their insurance to cover transit liability from a company event.

And as for the Ilitches, why would they want to pay Vladdy after he sued their insurance? This is strictly between Vlad and Gambino's insurance company.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I know, in Europe the big evil gubment steals 40% of your salary in tax money! Then takes care of you for no additional cost no matter what happens.

This isn't exactly true. Many still have co-pays and co-insurance. In the Netherlands you get taxed up the wazoo and then have to pay for health insurance.