Why Finnish players are not well-positioned in the 2025 Draft Prospect lists?

[FINJuniors]

Typically, no Finns in the top 32 rankings, and 2-3 in any of the top 100 rankings I have seen. As a Finn who follows junior hockey, the elephant in the room is that at least 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 have and will all be weak age groups in Finland. Why? Some structural issues in our hockey system?

One good consolidated list:

Elite Prospects - NHL Draft Center ELITEPROSPECTS.COM TOP 32

ELITEPROSPECTS.COM TOP 32 - DECEMBER RANKING for the NHL Entry Draft

www.eliteprospects.com

Click to read more...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Cause they can’t finish?

I’m here all week, try the veal.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Finland has hit a drought. There can be no doubt.

They need to turn it around fast or they’ll be passed by Czechia.

 

[Deadsy]

There are structural issues behind the drop in quality of players. This article was published just today regarding this matter (in Finnish):

Suomen NHL-lupaukset on tuhottu – karmea totuus paljastumassa: ”Läsähtää aika rajusti silmille”

Suomalainen pelaajatuotanto sakkaa pahasti.

www.is.fi

Some key points:

• Some scouts have not even bothered to scout games in Finland this season due to poor performance of the national teams in tournaments.
• The scouts say Finnish players are behind in all key areas: skating, skills, strength and hockey sense/vision.
• The players are decent 3-4 liners who will play with good effort and attitude, but can not bring anything extra beyond that.
• The Finnish junior leagues have become too big so the level of play is poor and the players are not pushed to their limits and are stagnated.
• The players are being coached into typical Finnish tactics too soon at the expense of individual development and freedom.
• Hockey is a very expensive as a hobby, some natural talent may never see the ice as the families can not afford to support the sport.

 

[FINJuniors]

Talked to my scout friends yesterday... They claim that Finnish hockey is based on "where you come" not "where you are going", which means that kids who excel at 10-13 years of age are the ones that especially major teams (Jokerit, Tappara, ...) pick for their priority development on the expense of the other kids. And as we know, the capability of these coaches to pick who is a talent is questionable, expecially at that early age. So, to sum up, Finnish teams focus on narrow and wrong talent pool (usually coaches' own kids) that does not turn into international level later.

 

[Briser la glace]

Another very disappointing year for Finland indeed. It's quite alarming. And I feel many lists are from the beginning of the season and will only get worst (eg DraftProspects have Kotajarvi 19th and Westergard 26th on EP, but that's from early June).

The saddest thing is that the first(s) player(s) to be drafted from the U20 SM-sarja this year might not even be Finnish players (Poletin, Chovan).

Boelius and Kotajarvi may have a chance in the second round, but I'm not even sure at that point, I'd have them in the 3rd, which would be catastrophic. Maybe Kuhta has a chance to be a late-riser, he is the only Finn in my Top-80 at the moment, and I have very limited viewings, I don't know if that's gonna stick

Who do you guys project to be drafted in the first two rounds?

 

[mattihp]

Meidän peli is hurting the skills, and the junior leagues aren't divided enough by skill.

 

[JJTT]

Talked to my scout friends yesterday... They claim that Finnish hockey is based on "where you come" not "where you are going", which means that kids who excel at 10-13 years of age are the ones that especially major teams (Jokerit, Tappara, ...) pick for their priority development on the expense of the other kids. And as we know, the capability of these coaches to pick who is a talent is questionable, expecially at that early age. So, to sum up, Finnish teams focus on narrow and wrong talent pool (usually coaches' own kids) that does not turn into international level later.

Well looking at the u17 national team for example, nearly half of them are sons or brothers of former or current players.

 

[Albatros]

Only rich twats can afford the sport anymore, not many worth drafting.

 

[heksagon]

Finland's future looks pretty bleak. I'm salty that we were robbed of most best on best tournaments during Finland's golden age of players in the NHL. We will only have a couple of chances to win a best on best. 2030 Olympics might be the last chance, and the stars will already be aging at that point.

Edit. Of course these things go in cycles with the smaller countries. I don't mean that it will be Finland's last chance EVER, but just with this generation, and the near future after that looks pretty bleak. Hoping for a bounce back after that or multiple late bloomers.

 

[just a hockey fan]

To me it really just seems like people have overly high expectations and demands when it comes to Finland for whatever reason. Seems like people demand a huge amount of first rounders every year and all of them have to become elite NHLers (which is unrealistic for any country, there will always be "busts" or disappointments). Feels like there can't be players who get injuries that ruin NHL careers, players who just don't develop to their perceived full potential or players who get drafted higher than they should and thus not living up to their draft position. Everything has to be perfect for Finnish players. Also apparently the simple fact that there won't be elite talent all the time from a small country is not acceptable. Bad age groups happen, it is easy to accept that. Besides, it's not unheard of to have late bloomers, or late draft picks to suddenly develop their weakness and then people ask what happened.

I also wouldn't start blaming Finnish national teams for winning tournaments. That's the goal and they found perhaps the only realistic way to beat better teams because there won't be many (if any) Finland rosters where they have elite talent on every line and can beat Canada or the US with skill only. Some coaches also can bring the team down and make it seem like the team and players are worse than they actually are. Playing in a way that makes sure to nullify or at least make it harder for the elite opponents to score doesn't mean skill and offensive ability is illegal. Maybe the 2016 WJC team being an exception, would any other Finland WJC roster be able to outscore the other big teams, ie going with the more attacking mindset instead of the two-way and gritty way they usually go with?

And I hope I'm not the only one who thinks that it's very weird to already shit on the current 15-16yo's by saying they're "weak" and nothing can change that. They'll be draft eligible for the 26, 27 and 28 drafts, lots of time to develop before and after that. Players can take huge steps in development during a season or the summer. Also interested to hear good reasons as to why and how the 2009 group especially has already been labeled as "weak". Why not wait until their draft season or at least until they've played internationally against other nations more than once or twice?

 

[mattihp]

Finland's future looks pretty bleak. I'm salty that we were robbed of most best on best tournaments during Finland's golden age of players in the NHL. We will only have a couple of chances to win a best on best. 2030 Olympics might be the last chance, and the stars will already be aging at that point.

Edit. Of course these things go in cycles with the smaller countries. I don't mean that it will be Finland's last chance EVER, but just with this generation, and the near future after that looks pretty bleak. Hoping for a bounce back after that or multiple late bloomers.

I don't get why Canadians weren't that pissed off at not seeing a still excellent Crosby link up with McDavid.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Covid19 is one major factor especially with 2007 born players.
Other reason is that our brain dead idiots in Finnish hockey association
took all that success what we had with Jukka Jalonen 2019-2022 as a ''guarantee''.

And those bozos thought we'll win medals every year
as we Finns say kusi nousi jääkiekkoliitossa päähän ( don't ask translation )

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Another very disappointing year for Finland indeed. It's quite alarming. And I feel many lists are from the beginning of the season and will only get worst (eg DraftProspects have Kotajarvi 19th and Westergard 26th on EP, but that's from early June).

The saddest thing is that the first(s) player(s) to be drafted from the U20 SM-sarja this year might not even be Finnish players (Poletin, Chovan).

Boelius and Kotajarvi may have a chance in the second round, but I'm not even sure at that point, I'd have them in the 3rd, which would be catastrophic. Maybe Kuhta has a chance to be a late-riser, he is the only Finn in my Top-80 at the moment, and I have very limited viewings, I don't know if that's gonna stick

Who do you guys project to be drafted in the first two rounds?

Only who should be ''lock'' Finnish 2nd rounder is Petteri Rimpinen.
He's been SM liiga's best goaltender this autumn and he's a reason
why Kiekko Espoo is TOP4 four team now in SM liiga.

Other name who might be late 2nd rounder is Matias Vanhanen.
He's played 3 SM liiga games and he's been HIFK's top scorer in U20 SM sarja.

U18 WJC's are measurement stick for Vanhanen's draft number
and if he has good or very good U18 WJC's i don't see any reason
why some NHL wouldn't take a chance to draft him.

 

[BusQuets]

Finland has hit a drought. There can be no doubt.

They need to turn it around fast or they’ll be passed by Czechia.

This. Even Sweden who is absolute hockey crazy country with no other sports we are good at are struggling producing talents. Feels like we have busts after busts.finland seems to be following.

 

[Theginnishchamp]

Typically, no Finns in the top 32 rankings, and 2-3 in any of the top 100 rankings I have seen. As a Finn who follows junior hockey, the elephant in the room is that at least 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 have and will all be weak age groups in Finland. Why? Some structural issues in our hockey system?

One good consolidated list:

Elite Prospects - NHL Draft Center ELITEPROSPECTS.COM TOP 32

ELITEPROSPECTS.COM TOP 32 - DECEMBER RANKING for the NHL Entry Draft

www.eliteprospects.com

2004 and 2005 aren't great age groups but they aren't that horrible either.

2006 is a very good age group, the depth is really great and there are some very potential players. There is a reason why the U20 team this year will be half underage players.

2007 is a really bad age group for us, weirdly there seems to be a lot of talent outside of hockey (Matias Siltanen, Miikka Muurinen)

2008 age group is looking solid, the defense is very good on the right side. Finland just had an excellent tournament in Vierumäki and almost beat USA's best team.

2009 age group is looking very good. There is a ton of depth with the forwards and a few standout defensemen. Finland was far better than Sweden in the first U16 games.

There are also promising players younger than that, like 2011 born Juho Nyberg who is putting up historic numbers.

There is too much doom and gloom, there have been a few weaker age groups but things are seemingly turning around after this next draft (which will be bad). Things aren't perfect (especially with defensemen) but some of the upcoming drafts should be good for Finland.

 

[majormajor]

I don't like trying to evaluate Finnish prospects because they have such specific ways of adapting to the Finnish style of game. Somewhat similar issue with the Swedish style. It's such a different game and it feels very difficult to tell who will be able to adapt the best to the NHL game. So much wheeling around big outer ice, very little inner play or special playmaking, mostly just volume shooting through crowds.

Have a look at Kemell, Slafkovsky, and Lambert from the same draft. Knowing how they played in league play is worse than useless at helping you figure out how to evaluate their level as prospects.

 

[lakeshirts37]

I don't get why Canadians weren't that pissed off at not seeing a still excellent Crosby link up with McDavid.

theyll see it this February and next year

 

[mattihp]

theyll see it this February and next year

So... Crosby is as good today as he was in 2018?

 

[57special]

This. Even Sweden who is absolute hockey crazy country with no other sports we are good at are struggling producing talents. Feels like we have busts after busts.finland seems to be following.

As a Newcastle fan, have to say i've been pretty happy with Isak. Thanks, Sweden!

 

[lakeshirts37]

So... Crosby is as good today as he was in 2018?

He’s still excellent!

 

[mattihp]

He’s still excellent!

But 6 years younger he was magical.

This. Even Sweden who is absolute hockey crazy country with no other sports we are good at are struggling producing talents. Feels like we have busts after busts.finland seems to be following.

What? Sweden is football crazy.

 

[Hntz]

Liiga’s level has plummeted and the junior leagues are even worse. Not surpirising our prospects are struggling.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Cause they can’t finish?

I’m here all week, try the veal.

 

[Theginnishchamp]

Liiga’s level has plummeted and the junior leagues are even worse. Not surpirising our prospects are struggling.

Liiga's level has very little to do with undrafted prospects since few of them play at that level. A bigger issue is too many foreigners and not enough playing time for young players, Lukko is a good example of that.

There absolutely are far too many teams in the junior leagues, thankfully this year there have been a couple less teams in both U16 and U20 league. As age groups get smaller making the leagues smaller has to be the focus in the future as well.