Why dont playoff games count towards stats for records?

[Golden_Jet]

Era adjusted stats don't work. That's basically asking Meta to create a fake scenario.

Sure lol,
making up for when seasons were 12 games shorter, higher scoring eras is fake, got it.

 

[Toby91ca]

Those are separate competitions, but the NHL playoffs are part of the NHL – its most important part, and the climax of every NHL season (October to June).

We're talking about a sport/league that is played in North America, so most people that pay attention are in North America and every league in North America does it this way as well. I honestly have no idea how other hockey leagues or other sporting leagues around the world look at records and I really don't care because I don't care who the all-time leading goal scorer is in the KHL, for example, so I do not care how the all-time leaders would be sorted (regular season + playoffs, etc.)....it's meaningless to me and the vast majority of people in North America.

There is that and then the other thing that has already been discussed, not everyone is included in the playoffs, so it's not comparing apples to apples. The other thing about playoffs as well....which is why I take some playoff stats with a grain of salt (good an bad) is that, any given year, a team will play between a min of 4 games and max of 28....not exactly a big sample size to draw a lot of conclusions.

 

[Calderon]

Severe reading comprehension issues, I see. Well, it is what it is – long live the fake records and the fake "greatest goal scorer of all time"!

Just out of curiosity who's in your opinion the greater goal scorer between Mark Messier and Mario Lemieux? What about between Corey Perry and Ilya Kovalchuk?

 

[Toby91ca]

Sure lol,
making up for when seasons were 12 games shorter, higher scoring eras is fake, got it.

Adjusted stats are fake though. I understand the rationale for it, but there are significant flaws. It's really hard to compare eras, so it's better, in my mind, to consider how a player stacks up against the players in his own era. Of course you can look higher scoring eras like the 70's/80's and generalize, but when you start doing actual mathematical equations to derive goals and assists, its gets dicey. Same thing with Crosby's concussion years. He was dominant those years in the games he played and you can use that as a data point, but he doesn't get credit for the games he missed....had he played all the games, would he have been just as productive over the full season? You can't just take the players that played in the 40's/50's when they played 60-70 games and extrapolate to 82 games. It's a lot hard to play 82 games a year vs. 60 or 70....would their bodies have held up, would their production have held up, etc.

What we do know is how players have compared against the players they've played against during the same time though. A good example I always like is Gretzky and the 80's.....say what you will about the scoring levels at that time, there is still no one, during any era, that dominated the competition to the same degree as he did. Of course, then comes more subjective stuff like level of competition being worse the further back you go as well....

 

[Golden_Jet]

You can't just take the players that played in the 40's/50's when they played 60-70 games and extrapolate to 82 games. It's a lot hard to play 82 games a year vs. 60 or 70....would their bodies have held up, would their production have held up, etc.

It’s might actually be easier today on the body, by flying private, than taking trains to games, or flying commercial like they used to.

 

[Toby91ca]

It’s might actually be easier today on the body, by flying private, than taking trains to games, or flying commercial like they used to.

Maybe, maybe not.....they weren't travelling as much back then. Travelling between Toronto, Montreal, Boston, New York, Detroit and Chicago isn't quite the same thing either.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Maybe, maybe not.....they weren't travelling as much back then. Travelling between Toronto, Montreal, Boston, New York, Detroit and Chicago isn't quite the same thing either.

When 6 teams was the train, then changed to commercial basically when went to 12 teams.
Teams flew commercial up until late 80’s, or early 90’s.
They were flying commercial across the country with 21 teams.

 

[Section 104]

If they did count, then fans and sportswriters wouldn’t be able to complain (or praise) players who aren’t “clutch”.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

What we do know is how players have compared against the players they've played against during the same time though. A good example I always like is Gretzky and the 80's.....say what you will about the scoring levels at that time, there is still no one, during any era, that dominated the competition to the same degree as he did. Of course, then comes more subjective stuff like level of competition being worse the further back you go as well....

Whether you're doing this quantitatively or qualitatively, you're creating adjusted statistics in doing this.

 

[Randyne]

Same thing with Crosby's concussion years. He was dominant those years in the games he played and you can use that as a data point, but he doesn't get credit for the games he missed....

Why he should get credit for something that never happened?
That site adjust only real things. Media hype is not working there.

 

[Faterson]

Just out of curiosity who's in your opinion the greater goal scorer between Mark Messier and Mario Lemieux? What about between Corey Perry and Ilya Kovalchuk?

It's not about anyone's opinions. It's about numbers, facts. The playoffs are a part of the NHL, and so the "NHL goals" scored by Messier, Lemieux, Perry, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin and Gretzky are those they scored in the regular season and the playoffs. That's like saying 2 + 2 = 4. You may choose to deny that 2 + 2 = 4, but that doesn't change the mathematical fact.

 

[Toby91ca]

Why he should get credit for something that never happened?
That site adjust only real things. Media hype is not working there.

Meaning you can't take a guy who played 70 games and extrapolate to 80 games to get adjusted stats....well, you can obviously, but my point is that you should really give credit for something that wasn't done.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Meaning you can't take a guy who played 70 games and extrapolate to 80 games to get adjusted stats....well, you can obviously, but my point is that you should really give credit for something that wasn't done.

No injuries would not be included, nor should they.
If you want to bring up pace in a different conversation, then ok, even though I’m not a pace guy.

 

[Toby91ca]

It's not about anyone's opinions. It's about numbers, facts. The playoffs are a part of the NHL, and so the "NHL goals" scored by Messier, Lemieux, Perry, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin and Gretzky are those they scored in the regular season and the playoffs. That's like saying 2 + 2 = 4. You may choose to deny that 2 + 2 = 4, but that doesn't change the mathematical fact.

Right, but the goal scoring record in the NHL right now is 896 goals I think. You may disagree and suggest 1,016 should be the record, you'll have your logic, and that's fine. But most people will not agree with you. They might suggest 896 is the main record, you can reference the playoff goal record and reference the reg season + playoff record, but the record that most would focus on is reg season only. Whether you agree or disagree with that, no matter your logic, doesn't really matter.

 

[Toby91ca]

No injuries would not be included, nor should they.
If you want to bring up pace in a different conversation, then ok, even though I’m not a pace guy.

Yes....understand how it's done and understand the logic behind it, but it's all just theory used to derive made up numbers.

 

[TGWL]

Sure lol,
making up for when seasons were 12 games shorter, higher scoring eras is fake, got it.

It's fun to look at and pretend like it would hold up, but it's not that simple and that's why it doesn't work. There's too many variables.

 

[Randyne]

It's fun to look at and pretend like it would hold up, but it's not that simple and that's why it doesn't work. There's too many variables.

Yes. Adjusting different scoring environments is not enough.
Teammates HOFers' overlapping points/goals should be reduced by ~30%. And Gretzky's cheat assists from behind the net shouldn't be counted at all. In real hockey parking someone's ass in that spot is absolutely impossible.
Also goalscorers don't get secondary assists, so there should be only primary points.

 

[Herregud]

The number of people still crashing out over this is astounding.

 

[Jeremy2020]

Are people really this upset about Ovechkin breaking the record?

 

[Greatzsky 99]

No, it doesn't. It's an American aberration. Don't forget there are other continents and leagues on this planet in addition to America.

Its the same in Sweden

 

[Fatass]

They do count. But for playoff stats. Got to think about how guys aren’t getting paid during playoffs. They get paid for the 82 games of the regular season. So that’s when the stats count. Playoffs are a totally different animal. No money. It’s all paid already. It’s guys playing to win the Cup. So stats are collected for that extra season when it’s playing for free.