Why Do We Have 3 Goalies with 2 0n the Way

[Run the Jewels]

It's basically just an insurance move:

-Even though he has no problem overpaying at best 3rd line centers and 3rd pairing D, Yzerman draws the line at goalies and doesn't want to get priced out of the super thin UFA goalie market this summer (where Adin Hill, Andersen and Jake Allen seem like the only worthwhile options for the Wings usual platoon workload).

-Keeps Cossa in GR for the rest of the season where he can rack up the starts and keep that team in the playoffs. That's better for his confidence than having to help an pretty awful NHL team try to salvage some playoff hopes.

At the same time, I don't think anything is set in stone. The Sharks will probably need a goalie, so Yzerman can send Mrazek to Grier with a 2nd rounder for future considerations.

And as for Cossa, you're more likely to see Justin Holl win this years Norris Trophy than you are seeing Yzerman keep a spot open on the NHL roster for him before he's had more reps in the NHL.

As an added bonus for the team, I see a pretty strong overlap in the Venn diagram of "Wings fans who have some fond memory of Mrazek and still think he was wronged by Ken Holland" and those that still make excuses for Yzerman like "lOl, oIlErS oVeRpAiD fOr WaLmAn"

Yzerman is conducting a balancing act where he needs to let his prospects develop, try to make the playoffs, but also have enough cap space to sign his best players. I don't think very highly of his North American pro scouts and have said as much here, and if there's any house cleaning to be done that would be where I would start, but this idea he's going to pay top dollar for one or two UFAs when he doesn't know which of his prospects are going to develop and which ones are going to struggle seems absurd to me.

He's had to overpay in free agency, but is that a shock to anyone? That's what free agency is known for. Better to wait for your prospects to develop and make a big splash with a free agent acquisition once you have a clear understanding of where your draft and development strategy has failed.

We have no idea how Coss and Augustine will develop, so getting Mrazek with one more year under contract at a known cost makes sense.

 

[14ari13]

When Larkin finishes his career he will have a half points of what Yzerman has, and Larkin relies on his speed.
You can't compare the 2.

How many seasons before Larkin becomes a Copp or a Compher?

 

[Winger98]

How many seasons before Larkin becomes a Copp or a Compher?

Larkin has far more to his game than either of those guys. I think, barring injury, Larkin has 3-4 years of being what he is now. After that, 2c level guy but I also don't think it would be crazy for him to continue this into his mid-30s.

 

[saska sault]

How many seasons before Larkin becomes a Copp or a Compher?

Considering he is younger than both, more experienced, and has had basically a better season than both every season of his career. He should age pretty well, and settle into a #2 C spot comfortably... he may even be a great producer later in his career if he legs keep up with him and he isn't always getting the toughest match ups.

 

[SirloinUB]

Say what you will about mrazek but I prefer him for 1 year over giving these kinds of names any term.

 

[saska sault]

Say what you will about mrazek but I prefer him for 1 year over giving these kinds of names any term.


View attachment 992997

Agreed. One year left during a prove it year, basically running it back with a Husso type player. Mrazek has close to 3 times the career games played and better career stats. Considering he has played behind some bad defenses, its not a bad gamble or stop gap if that is all it ends as.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Say what you will about mrazek but I prefer him for 1 year over giving these kinds of names any term.


View attachment 992997

Agreed. The only UFA goalie I would've been interested in this offseason was Quick, but the Rangers looked at the UFA goalie market and locked him up for another year.

 

[SirloinUB]

Agreed. The only UFA goalie I would've been interested in this offseason was Quick, but the Rangers looked at the UFA goalie market and locked him up for another year.

Adin Hill could have been a good addition but 6 x 6.5M probably wouldn’t have been ideal for us.

 

[14ari13]

Larkin has far more to his game than either of those guys. I think, barring injury, Larkin has 3-4 years of being what he is now. After that, 2c level guy but I also don't think it would be crazy for him to continue this into his mid-30s.

Do we have anyone who can be 1C or 2C?

 

[SantosHalper]

By the looks of it, next seasons goalie depth chart

Detroit:
- Talbot
- Mrazek

GR:
- Cossa
- Vet/Campbell

Toledo
- Gyrlander
- ?

 

[Winger98]

Do we have anyone who can be 1C or 2C?

Kasper and Danielson both have the upside to do it. Personally, I favor Danielson and think his upside as a center is higher. Will either of them reach it? Don't know. Maybe we'll trade for someone.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

By the looks of it, next seasons goalie depth chart

Detroit:
- Talbot
- Mrazek

GR:
- Cossa
- Vet/Campbell

Toledo
- Gyrlander
- ?

They might be fitting Augustine in there yet...SY still has a few 2024/5 contract slots (5 if my math is correct) until June 30 and then quite a few more open up on July 1 (12 or so)...it depends upon what the kid wants to do...but I suspect after this season, there is little left for him to prove at the college level.

Since Campbell is still getting paid by others, he could be back if he wants the player coach role while he works on getting his game back together. He might be a sneaky add given the slim FA market this year, it certainly doesn't hurt to have 4 in the system with at least some NHL experience as we saw earlier this season when both roster guys got injured.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

How many seasons before Larkin becomes a Copp or a Compher?

I don’t think he stays at 70-80 level forever but becoming what Tyler Seguin has for Dallas as a 50-60 point guy that can step up during injury? Definitely.

Copp and Compher’s best seasons were pending free agent years. They’ve been bland middle of the road guys every other season though. Not really comparable.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I don’t think he stays at 70-80 level forever but becoming what Tyler Seguin has for Dallas as a 50-60 point guy that can step up during injury? Definitely.

Copp and Compher’s best seasons were pending free agent years. They’ve been bland middle of the road guys every other season though. Not really comparable.

This is the thing that concerns me about our North American pro scouts: so many of our free agent signings have been non-factors. Part of that is just how free agency goes, but Gosthisbehere is the only signing where we acquired a true difference maker, at least at one end of the ice. That's a very low hit rate.

 

[theYman]

Steve Yzerman was 32 until he won his first cup... so, yeah.

I don't disagree there's more building to do. And Yzerman hasn't even scratched the surface of any real 'hockey' trades yet. He's still in stockpiling and drafting mode.

He needs to dramatically improve in the trade department. My god!! He's been abysmal there.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

This is the thing that concerns me about our North American pro scouts: so many of our free agent signings have been non-factors. Part of that is just how free agency goes, but Gosthisbehere is the only signing where we acquired a true difference maker, at least at one end of the ice. That's a very low hit rate.

Yeah, and I think this season has really taken the shine off the Yzerman regime and highlighted the issues endemic to the organization.

I am hoping this lackluster finish opens his eyes and he pushes to make the necessary improvements to our areas of weakness. Both on and off the ice.

 

[SantosHalper]

They might be fitting Augustine in there yet...SY still has a few 2024/5 contract slots (5 if my math is correct) until June 30 and then quite a few more open up on July 1 (12 or so)...it depends upon what the kid wants to do...but I suspect after this season, there is little left for him to prove at the college level.

Since Campbell is still getting paid by others, he could be back if he wants the player coach role while he works on getting his game back together. He might be a sneaky add given the slim FA market this year, it certainly doesn't hurt to have 4 in the system with at least some NHL experience as we saw earlier this season when both roster guys got injured.

I feel they want the other goalie in GR to be a veteran, Cossa is the call up and the vet stays in GR. Gyrlander getting a better look in AHL, when Cossa is up. But since Cossa played his first pro year in ECHL, i guess Augustine could do the same. When Cossa is up, Augustine gets called up in GR. So NCAA or ECHL? Post TDL presser SY talked about how important is for the goalies to get minutes, in NCAA Augustine could start all the games but ECHL is a pro league.

 

[14ari13]

I don’t think he stays at 70-80 level forever but becoming what Tyler Seguin has for Dallas as a 50-60 point guy that can step up during injury? Definitely.

Copp and Compher’s best seasons were pending free agent years. They’ve been bland middle of the road guys every other season though. Not really comparable.

That is really dumb nitpicking. You can compare Larkin to any current player in the league or in the past. That is OBVIOUSLY not the point.

The main point is how many seasons before he starts declining. Is it really so difficult to understand?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

That is really dumb nitpicking. You can compare Larkin to any current player in the league or in the past. That is OBVIOUSLY not the point.

The main point is how many seasons before he starts declining. Is it really so difficult to understand?

If you don’t want your comparison nitpicked then make a better one.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

I feel they want the other goalie in GR to be a veteran, Cossa is the call up and the vet stays in GR. Gyrlander getting a better look in AHL, when Cossa is up. But since Cossa played his first pro year in ECHL, i guess Augustine could do the same. When Cossa is up, Augustine gets called up in GR. So NCAA or ECHL? Post TDL presser SY talked about how important is for the goalies to get minutes, in NCAA Augustine could start all the games but ECHL is a pro league.

And I suspect, being in ECHL would give Trey access to the GR goalie coach too...more so than in NCAA, my only concern is where to develop him best...does another year in NCAA do him justice?

Even if he starts and wins every game (he won't start them all, the coach will want his next season replacement to get some in too)

I guess it hard to go too wrong, just wouldn't want him to possibly stagnate when there are better challenges to take on. He might be a goalie that is NHL ready by age 22/23...if so, challenge hi to get there, don't overripen him.

 

[SantosHalper]

And I suspect, being in ECHL would give Trey access to the GR goalie coach too...more so than in NCAA

Very good point and i'd say that almost the most important point as well. Trey can get big minutes in ECHL too but working with Koistinen and goalie development coach Osaer is the trump card. And that route worked for Cossa.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I feel they want the other goalie in GR to be a veteran, Cossa is the call up and the vet stays in GR. Gyrlander getting a better look in AHL, when Cossa is up. But since Cossa played his first pro year in ECHL, i guess Augustine could do the same. When Cossa is up, Augustine gets called up in GR. So NCAA or ECHL? Post TDL presser SY talked about how important is for the goalies to get minutes, in NCAA Augustine could start all the games but ECHL is a pro league.

Augustine likely doesn’t need ECHL time like Cossa did. He’s more advanced than people think and could probably be pretty good in the AHL now. I think there’s a good chance Augustine surprises a lot of people sooner than expected.

 

[theYman]

It's like a goalie rolodex.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Augustine likely doesn’t need ECHL time like Cossa did. He’s more advanced than people think and could probably be pretty good in the AHL now. I think there’s a good chance Augustine surprises a lot of people sooner than expected.

Could be, but it is a path to follow, and if he exceeds where they think he is, move him along to the next challenge, with Talbot and Petr on the wings next year, his time in the ECHL could be quite short...injuries might open up slots, even if temporary. He proves he belongs, SY will make room for him on the slot chart.

 

[14ari13]

If you don’t want your comparison nitpicked then make a better one.

1. Larkin has 2-4 seasons before he starts declining. That is my point.
2. Do we have any prospects who can be as good or better than him, playing the same position?
3. Who can he be compared to is completely irrelevant.