- Jul 6, 2017
- 14,800
- 14,116
Why do we hate all our coaches?
- Thread starter Beacon
- Start date
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,272
- 7,803
If you seriously believe a HF poster would do a better job (in this case beat Ottawa) than NHL head coach I have bridge I want to sell to you. Mint condition and I'll give you mad discount.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
I don't think there's another person on the planet who plays Glass and Staal in the situations he did.
Somebody deliberately trying to lose the series would have made similar decisions.
A general discussion on coaches is a separate entity. AV is in his own special world of arrogance and stupidity. His only contribution to this franchise is the fans going easier on every coach after and before him.
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,272
- 7,803
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Say you told a Senators fan they could coach the Rangers for that series. But there's some ground rules. The ice time has to be reasonable - you can't just exhaust the team, and you can't pull/change the goaltender. You just have to coach the Rangers to make the Senators win.
In that scenario, the Senators fan coaches that series like AV did to a T.
Any functioning adult does better in that series.
- Oct 23, 2014
- 30,366
- 43,067
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,272
- 7,803
- Oct 23, 2014
- 30,366
- 43,067
You mean when they competed against 5 teams...?
You can thank the actual organization/culture and it's management for that
I doubt that many hate AV with such a strong expression, and I`m not fond of the word @Beacon - nothing good comes out of it. But very brief AV had his chances here - so it was good decision to start with a different coaching staff. But we will see how long it takes until we start to see flaws with our new NHL coach. 
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
You've been fully on the bandwagon recently to fire AV.
You just enjoy being contrarian.
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,272
- 7,803
I like AV. I don't agree with some of the moves he made. He's a good coach and his resume proves that unfortunately he lost the locker room. Once you lose the locker room you either clean house completely or fire the coach. Coach is the one that tends to get the flick.
Been a NY sports fan for almost 60 years; all sports.
Here is a personal truism: the only one who can coach a team the way I want is me, and that is never going to happen.
I think that is the heart of it: we all think we’re experts (and as fans we certainly possess the right to think that way) and know better. So naturally, we begin to first doubt, then question, and ultimately dislike our coaches. It’s human nature.
Actually, the last Rangers coaches I disliked (hate is to strong a word) were Lowe and Muckler. I had tremendous admiration for Renney, appreciated Torts, and valued all that AV did, though I do think it was the right move in firing him.
But the hate? That’s human nature because we’re all experts.
Here is a personal truism: the only one who can coach a team the way I want is me, and that is never going to happen.
I think that is the heart of it: we all think we’re experts (and as fans we certainly possess the right to think that way) and know better. So naturally, we begin to first doubt, then question, and ultimately dislike our coaches. It’s human nature.
Actually, the last Rangers coaches I disliked (hate is to strong a word) were Lowe and Muckler. I had tremendous admiration for Renney, appreciated Torts, and valued all that AV did, though I do think it was the right move in firing him.
But the hate? That’s human nature because we’re all experts.
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,272
- 7,803
Loved him too unfortunately he also lost the locker room at the end and had to go.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
I could have done a better job than AV in that Ottawa series. Over and over again after Game 2 against freaking Montreal I was posting how Staal and Holden were going to be the death of us if AV continued to play them in favor of Skjei and Smith. Or play them PERIOD.
And that's exactly what happened. And it's not like I'm a genius that came up with this revolutionary idea.
The best player on my hockey team who doesn't know dick about the Rangers or really the NHL at all called me after the first blown lead in Ottawa and was literally laughing hysterically on the other line how bad #18 was and how moronic the Rangers coach was for putting them out there in key situations.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...eries-tied-1-1.2215723/page-18#post-130824917
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
- 70,272
- 7,803
Yeah and I dont disagree with the decision. But he was a coach that I admired. The work ethic he instilled, the will to win.
If he doesn't lose the room in CLB he's going to do the same over there.
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
- 10,149
- 9,033
AV was awesome when he was not using players beyond their ability. In 2014, he had players slotted appropriately and it was the best we did. We ran into a better team.
2015, we started to see some things. Playing Glass. Playing Yandle on the 3rd pair and 2nd PP. We had more than enough firepower though, and we got very far.
2016 was mismanagement at it's best. Girardi was done, kept playing him. Staal too. Misusing Eric Staal. Fast playing in the top 9.
2017 was Nick Holden and Marc Staal pairing, "losing Skjei and Smith" on the bench against OTT. Playing Glass over Buch. Not playing Buch enough.
This season might have been the worst: 1st pair Holden, 4th line Buch, Vesey getting countless top 6 and top 9 minutes. Playing Hank and Zucc hurt in lost seasons. Playing Chytil 10 minutes before sending him down to Hartford after making the team. Playing McDonagh with a broken hand. Even down the stretch playing McLeod, who is f***ing useless, instead of a young player, like Lettieri. It made no sense.
Then he was smug enough to say he was a great coach. f*** him. At least Torts, who was pretty smug himself, was able to know when he f***ed up.
He was given a roster, full of talent, with players together that could have won. Slowly, but surely, that roster went away and he couldn't get players to fill in those roles that should have been.
Renney and Torts never got less out of their players. They always got more from less. AV had talent and didn't make it work.
2015, we started to see some things. Playing Glass. Playing Yandle on the 3rd pair and 2nd PP. We had more than enough firepower though, and we got very far.
2016 was mismanagement at it's best. Girardi was done, kept playing him. Staal too. Misusing Eric Staal. Fast playing in the top 9.
2017 was Nick Holden and Marc Staal pairing, "losing Skjei and Smith" on the bench against OTT. Playing Glass over Buch. Not playing Buch enough.
This season might have been the worst: 1st pair Holden, 4th line Buch, Vesey getting countless top 6 and top 9 minutes. Playing Hank and Zucc hurt in lost seasons. Playing Chytil 10 minutes before sending him down to Hartford after making the team. Playing McDonagh with a broken hand. Even down the stretch playing McLeod, who is f***ing useless, instead of a young player, like Lettieri. It made no sense.
Then he was smug enough to say he was a great coach. f*** him. At least Torts, who was pretty smug himself, was able to know when he f***ed up.
He was given a roster, full of talent, with players together that could have won. Slowly, but surely, that roster went away and he couldn't get players to fill in those roles that should have been.
Renney and Torts never got less out of their players. They always got more from less. AV had talent and didn't make it work.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
You really don't think AV made horrendous personnel decisions in that Ottawa series? You really don't notice the massive lack of killer instinct the Rangers had under AV? So many blown leads. So many playoff series where they win Game 1 or have a chance to take a commanding lead in a series only to let the opponent get right back in it?
The Canucks had the same problems under AV. They did it twice in the 2011 Cup run. Took a 3-1 lead against the Hawks but let them take it all the way to Game 7. And in that Game 7 they nearly blew that game too with Toews tying it in the final minute before OT.
And then they take a commanding 2-0 lead into Boston and then they let the Bruins kick their f***ing teeth down their throat. And of course laid a massive stinker in Game 6 with a chance to win the Cup and did exactly what the Rangers let the Senators do with their lack of killer instinct and handed them a series they had won 5 times over. Yet somehow found a way to lose.
It's just the cyclical nature of sports. You're trash once you get sacked and fail to win during your tenure.
Not just a Ranger thing. Honestly the only fanbase I've seen that had constant cosching turnover and still defend their coaches are Flames fans.
Not just a Ranger thing. Honestly the only fanbase I've seen that had constant cosching turnover and still defend their coaches are Flames fans.
eco's bones
Registered User
The coaches that I have seen:
Emile Francis--B-B+--made the finals in 71-72. We did it without our top center for the first two rounds and got knocked out by the Bruins in 6 with Ratelle back but pretty much on one leg. Francis was also the G.M. A couple years later he starts a purge that didn't work out very well--to put it another way Ratelle and Park do more for the Bruins than Esposito and Vadnais do for the Rangers. The next year he compounds that mistake by sending Middleton to the Bruins for a washed up Hodge. All in all he was a good coach though.
Larry Popein---F. Didn't last a year--Francis replaced him.
Ron Stewart--F. See Popein. Same thing all over again.
John Ferguson--D---was a noted NHL tough guy for Montreal. It's not like I hated him but the team floundered and he wasn't one of our guys and he gave us those goofy jerseys.
Jean-Guy Talbot--D+
Fred Shero--B+--he was a players coach. He gave players room to do what they do. He was probably also an alcoholic--that's okay. I probably skirted around that too. The team went to the finals again but got knocked out by Montreal--Davidson playing on an injured knee.
Craig Patrick--C--okay I suppose.
Herb Brooks--B+--he had his ways mind you and he wanted his team to play a certain way. It flummoxed the f*** out of the Flyers in the playoffs to have all these smaller guys running circles around them. It was a puck possession system. When his team was off though they were awful.
Ted Sator-F--hated him. Larouche to the minors---really? Pavelich and Beck basically walked off the team and then Ruotsolainen left to0---he didn't need Sator's shit.
Tom Webster--F--he didn't last long. I forget what the issue was but I think it was stress/psychological shit.
Phil Esposito--C- it's not that he was horrible as a coach but he wasn't great either. He was a trade happy general manager and that's never good. Think Mike Milbury.
Michel Bergeron-B the part I didn't like was we gave up a 1st round pick to get him as his rights were held by Quebec and they wouldn't let him go without compensation so trader Espo sent them a first rounder. I like Michel as a coach. He had a temper though. I remember him walking down the bench screaming obscenities (something I appreciated with his French accent--it seemed to give them a little extra flavor) at a ref and walking off the edge and banging his head against a partition. He had to retire because of heart issues---they were afraid he would blow more than just his gasket.
Roger Neilson--B+---maybe even an A- Just a smart coach. Eventually Messier basically staged a palace coup which first gave us.......
Ron Smith-D+ who didn't last long and then
Mike Keenan-D Yeah I know---we finally won our Cup but basically he was a dirtbag always going behind his general manager's back and also trying to negotiate deals to other teams while we were in the middle of our Stanley Cup playoff run. And he wanted Neil Smith to deal Brian Leetch for Stu Grimson FFS.
Colin Campbell--C I've heard some not so nice things about him as a coach. His career with the league afterwards pretty much as a sycophant.
John Muckler--D Not good. He acted liked an angry old man all the time.
John Tortorella-- 4 game replacement for Muckler. We'll get back to him in a minute.
Ron Low--F Clueless. Hated him. One thing that seriously pissed me off with him is allowing a concussed Richter who'd got run over in a pre-game skate to take one shot off the bean from center ice and leave him in to take another. That might have been the last game Mike ever played for us. If it wasn't it was one of the last.
Bryan Trottier-F Awful.
Glen Sather--C+ Not great but not bad.
Tom Renney--B I liked him. He was a player's coach. Great personality. The dynamic of the team changed and it was time for him to go.
John Tortorella-B I didn't like him as much as I liked Renney. He pushed the team though. I'll give him that. Personality wise I think he kind of sucks.
Alain Vigneault-B It's hard for me to hate a coach that gets the team to the finals. You almost kind of got to do the shit that Keenan did. I liked AV's personality. IMO he gradually lost the team over the last two years and IMO the team went soft and maybe he's a big reason why. His first couple years though were really good.
Emile Francis--B-B+--made the finals in 71-72. We did it without our top center for the first two rounds and got knocked out by the Bruins in 6 with Ratelle back but pretty much on one leg. Francis was also the G.M. A couple years later he starts a purge that didn't work out very well--to put it another way Ratelle and Park do more for the Bruins than Esposito and Vadnais do for the Rangers. The next year he compounds that mistake by sending Middleton to the Bruins for a washed up Hodge. All in all he was a good coach though.
Larry Popein---F. Didn't last a year--Francis replaced him.
Ron Stewart--F. See Popein. Same thing all over again.
John Ferguson--D---was a noted NHL tough guy for Montreal. It's not like I hated him but the team floundered and he wasn't one of our guys and he gave us those goofy jerseys.
Jean-Guy Talbot--D+
Fred Shero--B+--he was a players coach. He gave players room to do what they do. He was probably also an alcoholic--that's okay. I probably skirted around that too. The team went to the finals again but got knocked out by Montreal--Davidson playing on an injured knee.
Craig Patrick--C--okay I suppose.
Herb Brooks--B+--he had his ways mind you and he wanted his team to play a certain way. It flummoxed the f*** out of the Flyers in the playoffs to have all these smaller guys running circles around them. It was a puck possession system. When his team was off though they were awful.
Ted Sator-F--hated him. Larouche to the minors---really? Pavelich and Beck basically walked off the team and then Ruotsolainen left to0---he didn't need Sator's shit.
Tom Webster--F--he didn't last long. I forget what the issue was but I think it was stress/psychological shit.
Phil Esposito--C- it's not that he was horrible as a coach but he wasn't great either. He was a trade happy general manager and that's never good. Think Mike Milbury.
Michel Bergeron-B the part I didn't like was we gave up a 1st round pick to get him as his rights were held by Quebec and they wouldn't let him go without compensation so trader Espo sent them a first rounder. I like Michel as a coach. He had a temper though. I remember him walking down the bench screaming obscenities (something I appreciated with his French accent--it seemed to give them a little extra flavor) at a ref and walking off the edge and banging his head against a partition. He had to retire because of heart issues---they were afraid he would blow more than just his gasket.
Roger Neilson--B+---maybe even an A- Just a smart coach. Eventually Messier basically staged a palace coup which first gave us.......
Ron Smith-D+ who didn't last long and then
Mike Keenan-D Yeah I know---we finally won our Cup but basically he was a dirtbag always going behind his general manager's back and also trying to negotiate deals to other teams while we were in the middle of our Stanley Cup playoff run. And he wanted Neil Smith to deal Brian Leetch for Stu Grimson FFS.
Colin Campbell--C I've heard some not so nice things about him as a coach. His career with the league afterwards pretty much as a sycophant.
John Muckler--D Not good. He acted liked an angry old man all the time.
John Tortorella-- 4 game replacement for Muckler. We'll get back to him in a minute.
Ron Low--F Clueless. Hated him. One thing that seriously pissed me off with him is allowing a concussed Richter who'd got run over in a pre-game skate to take one shot off the bean from center ice and leave him in to take another. That might have been the last game Mike ever played for us. If it wasn't it was one of the last.
Bryan Trottier-F Awful.
Glen Sather--C+ Not great but not bad.
Tom Renney--B I liked him. He was a player's coach. Great personality. The dynamic of the team changed and it was time for him to go.
John Tortorella-B I didn't like him as much as I liked Renney. He pushed the team though. I'll give him that. Personality wise I think he kind of sucks.
Alain Vigneault-B It's hard for me to hate a coach that gets the team to the finals. You almost kind of got to do the shit that Keenan did. I liked AV's personality. IMO he gradually lost the team over the last two years and IMO the team went soft and maybe he's a big reason why. His first couple years though were really good.
Inferno
Registered User
Inferno
Registered User
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,078
- 17,718
The bulk of my time watching the Rangers have had Torts and AV at the helm. I saw a decent amount of Renney hockey, but not every game like with the AV/Torts era.
I quite liked Tortorella for the most part; of course, he could be frustrating, and while he seemed like an ornery asshole, he somehow seemed like a good hearted guy at the same time. When we fired him, it was time, but if I go back to when we hired Torts, I’d hire him again, with no regrets. Even though I was happy when he was fired, I still respected him as a coach and a human being.
Now, AV, on the other hand, soured on me very quickly. He was a breath of fresh air in 13-14, but by the end of 2015, I had begun to dislike him immensely. It really started with the Glass signing; I knew he was behind it, and I knew he’d take away ice time/roster spots from better players. Over time, his ego and his condescending answers got on my nerves, not to mention our teams havin the mental and physical fortitude of pudding. In the end I disliked him as coach, and disliked his personality even more. The stuff with him accusing Hodsgon of faking his back injury is also f***ing disgusting behavior.
I quite liked Tortorella for the most part; of course, he could be frustrating, and while he seemed like an ornery asshole, he somehow seemed like a good hearted guy at the same time. When we fired him, it was time, but if I go back to when we hired Torts, I’d hire him again, with no regrets. Even though I was happy when he was fired, I still respected him as a coach and a human being.
Now, AV, on the other hand, soured on me very quickly. He was a breath of fresh air in 13-14, but by the end of 2015, I had begun to dislike him immensely. It really started with the Glass signing; I knew he was behind it, and I knew he’d take away ice time/roster spots from better players. Over time, his ego and his condescending answers got on my nerves, not to mention our teams havin the mental and physical fortitude of pudding. In the end I disliked him as coach, and disliked his personality even more. The stuff with him accusing Hodsgon of faking his back injury is also f***ing disgusting behavior.
