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mattihp
Registered User
Sub-NHL goaltending.
The goaltenders looked between good and great, as long as the defense played very well. But as soon as the defense split up and stopped playing like a team, the goaltenders didn't look over their abilities any more.
The goaltenders looked between good and great, as long as the defense played very well. But as soon as the defense split up and stopped playing like a team, the goaltenders didn't look over their abilities any more.
mattihp
Registered User
There are some things I fail to understand...
Two best offensive defensemen in the same pairing...
Two best defensive/hardheaded defensemen in another pairing...
Why just not go 1+1 and 1+1?
Also... They should've let Affe centre (he's done it a couple of times) Foppa and Näslund, with Foppa occasionally getting subbed by Z so that he didn't tire, and then throw in Axelsson on the right of Sudden and Modin...
Two best offensive defensemen in the same pairing...
Two best defensive/hardheaded defensemen in another pairing...
Why just not go 1+1 and 1+1?
Also... They should've let Affe centre (he's done it a couple of times) Foppa and Näslund, with Foppa occasionally getting subbed by Z so that he didn't tire, and then throw in Axelsson on the right of Sudden and Modin...
Their goaltending was their undoing, although not the only reason they lost. From the beginning, everyone questioned the goaltenders and Telqvist was horrible, end of story.
Sweden is still a loaded team and still a strong hockey nation. The Czech superstars showed up this time and the Swedish ones didn't...
Sweden is still a loaded team and still a strong hockey nation. The Czech superstars showed up this time and the Swedish ones didn't...
SensGod
Registered User
Legolas said:
Totally agree...goaltending killed them in this tournament. The Swedes can have all the forwards and dmen that are the best in the best in the world, but if they don't develop a world class goalie...they won't win anything important.
It's like the Sens...great team on paper, but the goaltending will be their undoing time and time again.
The only teams out there really that have this right now are Canada (Brodeur, Luongo...Luongo and Fleury in the future), Finland (Kipper and Lehtonen in the future) and Russia (Nabokov, Khabibulin and Bryzaglov in the future). The rest of the teams don't really have anything that stands out now or in the future, maybe except for Vokoun for the Czech's.
Classic Devil
Spirit of 1988
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,168
I must say I was hoping for a Sweden Canada final but for some reason Sweden never gets there in recent years. The last two World Championships were good for them until the final, and then this 6-1 shellacking happens.
This was the time, the only time that Sweden would have won. Forsberg, Naslund are both 31. Sundin is 33. Lidstrom is 34. You've got Zetterberg and the Sedins but other than that no one is there to carry Sweden in the future. A lot of it has to do with goaltending. Salo is the best Swedeish goalie to come out in the last 20 years. Unless another Pelle Lindbergh comes around Sweden is in a lot of trouble.
This was the time, the only time that Sweden would have won. Forsberg, Naslund are both 31. Sundin is 33. Lidstrom is 34. You've got Zetterberg and the Sedins but other than that no one is there to carry Sweden in the future. A lot of it has to do with goaltending. Salo is the best Swedeish goalie to come out in the last 20 years. Unless another Pelle Lindbergh comes around Sweden is in a lot of trouble.
Goaltending did not undo Sweden this time. Sure, Sweden has goaltending problems and not one of them looked particularly good in this tournament. But, Tellquist can not be blamed for yesterday's loss. More Swedish goals in this tournament has been an effect of sloppy defending than of lousy goaltending. Furthermore, Sweden never got its five on five play working. Since the Swedish roster is on paper more than capable of providing both world class defending and - at least with two lines -attacking - the sad story is that the stars underperformed badly. Why this were so, can naturally be discussed endlessly. In my opinion it is because of incompetent coaching.
Leo Naphta said:
Exactly!
Sure, Tellquist isn't the best goalie in this tourny but I don't think that's an excuse for this loss. All the goals were horrible, defensive breakdowns. It got to the point were some of the Czech goals like a shinny game where all the good players go on one side and do what ever they want. Sweden didn't work at all and putting that kind of effort infront of anygoalie will produce the same result. A blowout.
I don't follow the Swedish National system to know who to blame, but someone has to figure it out. These players need to get motivated and maybe a new coach can do that.
deandebean
Registered User
The Swedes have stopped developping individual talent because they have, unfortunately, instituted defensive play through out their system. You won't see another Peter Forsberg coming out of there before a long time.
You country needs to examine its development system. At the junior level, your teams are not at par with Canada, Russia and the US. Not anymore. You should just examine the way you develop players.
As for the ex-USSR team, well, I thought (seriously) that Kurt Russell explained it the best in Miracle. They had great individual talent, but played within a system of controlling the puck. Plus, they had great stamina because of their military-style training. The pros in the NHL could rarely support the intensity in international competition (the bottom of the barrel being the Challenge Cup in 79), at least not before discovering that days off during the season did not mean days where you could get drunk, but days where you had to train. Since then, North Americans have learned to play the Russians/Soviets (thanks in large part to the US team of 80): constant pressure, speed, containment down low, and stamina. Since then, the Russian teams at the pro level have been solid at best. They have lost their aura of great control-type of game.
You country needs to examine its development system. At the junior level, your teams are not at par with Canada, Russia and the US. Not anymore. You should just examine the way you develop players.
As for the ex-USSR team, well, I thought (seriously) that Kurt Russell explained it the best in Miracle. They had great individual talent, but played within a system of controlling the puck. Plus, they had great stamina because of their military-style training. The pros in the NHL could rarely support the intensity in international competition (the bottom of the barrel being the Challenge Cup in 79), at least not before discovering that days off during the season did not mean days where you could get drunk, but days where you had to train. Since then, North Americans have learned to play the Russians/Soviets (thanks in large part to the US team of 80): constant pressure, speed, containment down low, and stamina. Since then, the Russian teams at the pro level have been solid at best. They have lost their aura of great control-type of game.
why do sweden suck
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Our team looked like freaking clowns out there. Tell me about the leadership of sundin. he sucks. forsberg sucks. naslund sucks. We're not an elite team anymore. Atleast the finns can win the important games. so can the czechs and the canadians.
worst of all. our coach is staying
we deserves to be laughed at.
=========================
They're not that bad.....only in a couple of areas.........
(1) They need to add more team toughness.
(2) They are lacking a true world-class starting Netminder.
(3)........Oh yes.......I know I said "couple of things" but there another reason.......Too many Toronto Maple Leafs players on their roster......OR maybe it's the other way around.................Too many Swedes on the Toronto Maple Leafs?
Cheers!~
monkey_00
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Our team looked like freaking clowns out there. Tell me about the leadership of sundin. he sucks. forsberg sucks. naslund sucks. We're not an elite team anymore. Atleast the finns can win the important games. so can the czechs and the canadians.
worst of all. our coach is staying
we deserves to be laughed at.
=========================
They're not that bad.....only in a couple of areas.........
(1) They need to add more team toughness.
(2) They are lacking a true world-class starting Netminder.
(3)........Oh yes.......I know I said "couple of things" but there another reason.......Too many Toronto Maple Leafs players on their roster......OR maybe it's the other way around.................Too many Swedes on the Toronto Maple Leafs?
Cheers!~
monkey_00
I looked up a few results..
World u20 championships last 8 yrs (since 96*)
gold 6pt, silver 4pt, bronze 2pt
world u18 championships last 5 yrs (since 99**)
Gold 3, silver 2, bronze 1
*Players age 20 in 96, would be 28 today and 32 four years from now (if there's another World Cup 4yrs from now)
** Canada's lack of success at u-18 level suggests that this tournament isn't that serious yet, hence less point weight than at u-20 level. Also, difference between 18 and 15 year old is imho far larger than difference between 20 and 17 year old.
Points ranking:
Russia 41
Canada 35
Finland 23
USA 15
*******
Czech Republic 14 (12 of these points come from back to back u-20 wins in 2000 and 2001)
Sweden 7
Slovakia 5
Switzerland 4
Notice that Sweden has barely managed more points than Slovakia or Switzerland, although the u-20 being weighted more should favour Sweden (larger talent pool)
Another thing to consider: If germany was team #8 this time, will it be Switzerland's turn in 4 years if there's a World Cup then?
So essentially, team Sweden in this tournament had a bunch of near 30 to over 30 year old greats, and has not had enough talent coming into the squad to push it's older players to perform constantly or be out.
This should also suggest that Sweden should struggle in major international tournaments for the enxt 8 or so years. Alarm bells should be ringing off at the Swedish Hockey Association that they must do somehting about youth now.
Russia and Canada should be joint 1st as Canada doesnt seem to take u-18 seriously yet, (junior leagues too competitive?)
USA one would think, would have a momentary drop, and then rise up again (assuming the oldest players on the team now quit, it should take a while before the youth steps up to the plate)
Finland appears to be on the path to being the top european (excluding Russia) nation for the near future.
Slovakia's youth programme raises concerns..
***** = Handicapped the Czechs because so many of their points come from two tournaments, didn't look to see what the squads were then, could be I'm being unfair to hadicap them but..
World u20 championships last 8 yrs (since 96*)
gold 6pt, silver 4pt, bronze 2pt
world u18 championships last 5 yrs (since 99**)
Gold 3, silver 2, bronze 1
*Players age 20 in 96, would be 28 today and 32 four years from now (if there's another World Cup 4yrs from now)
** Canada's lack of success at u-18 level suggests that this tournament isn't that serious yet, hence less point weight than at u-20 level. Also, difference between 18 and 15 year old is imho far larger than difference between 20 and 17 year old.
Points ranking:
Russia 41
Canada 35
Finland 23
USA 15
*******
Czech Republic 14 (12 of these points come from back to back u-20 wins in 2000 and 2001)
Sweden 7
Slovakia 5
Switzerland 4
Notice that Sweden has barely managed more points than Slovakia or Switzerland, although the u-20 being weighted more should favour Sweden (larger talent pool)
Another thing to consider: If germany was team #8 this time, will it be Switzerland's turn in 4 years if there's a World Cup then?
So essentially, team Sweden in this tournament had a bunch of near 30 to over 30 year old greats, and has not had enough talent coming into the squad to push it's older players to perform constantly or be out.
This should also suggest that Sweden should struggle in major international tournaments for the enxt 8 or so years. Alarm bells should be ringing off at the Swedish Hockey Association that they must do somehting about youth now.
Russia and Canada should be joint 1st as Canada doesnt seem to take u-18 seriously yet, (junior leagues too competitive?)
USA one would think, would have a momentary drop, and then rise up again (assuming the oldest players on the team now quit, it should take a while before the youth steps up to the plate)
Finland appears to be on the path to being the top european (excluding Russia) nation for the near future.
Slovakia's youth programme raises concerns..
***** = Handicapped the Czechs because so many of their points come from two tournaments, didn't look to see what the squads were then, could be I'm being unfair to hadicap them but..
Last edited:
Jussi
Registered User
1. Prehaps! I'm've was to make football often times. Play? Know. Best football results twice again.
2. Every age I have seen out as a baby. I think I has the solution. Width times height.
3. As a wery old, I can fathom the scene to be with me. Looking always as I ever did. It was not came's. He borrowed mine.
Med vänliga hälsningar,
Stark DÃ¥lig
Check it out if you're confused
Raimo Sillanpää said:
Any U18s that occur during the regular season of the CHL usually don't get the major junior players going there. I'm guessing it's like an NHL releasing its players to play in the middle of the season, and the season doesn't stop for the tournament. So the best of the Canadian U18s for some of these tournaments are in the CHL, so it's the bantams and college guys that go there.
SectionX said:Our team looked like freaking clowns out there. Tell me about the leadership of sundin. he sucks. forsberg sucks. naslund sucks. We're not an elite team anymore. Atleast the finns can win the important games. so can the czechs and the canadians.
worst of all. our coach is staying
we deserves to be laughed at.
I watched all of Sweden's games in this tournament and I noticed they all played well when their goaltending was on. When the goalies started to get shaky, so did the rest of the team.
The blame should go to:
1) Coaching, lines were hardly shaken up in the top lines. Hardy doesn't seem to have the guts to make changes to the team when players are struggling..
2) The persons who selected the Goaltending.
3) The Goalies.
Jean_Jacket41
Neely = HOF
Jean_Jacket41 said:Q: Why do Sweden suck?
A: Its because there is too much swedies on that team!
LOL. I don't know if you know about this, but years ago, in the Canada Cup 1981, after Sweden had missed the semis, the question was asked to forward Anders Kallur why they had failed so miserably. His answer was: "There were too many Swedes on the team".
CZECHS are the BEST. We are playing for Ivan ....
Malefic74
Registered User
Sweden looked old and tired against the Czechs. Zetterberg is really the only young star they have, the rest of their big name players are closing in 10 or 15 year veterans. They just seemed to lack the energy to really play a puck pursuit, hard checking style.
Sweden needs a youth movement, badly.
And with all the skilled puckhandlers they have on that team you'd think they could come up with something other than dumping it in? Hmmm?
Sweden needs a youth movement, badly.
And with all the skilled puckhandlers they have on that team you'd think they could come up with something other than dumping it in? Hmmm?
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