Why did they do that!

[carjackmalone]

Why did Washington trade Dennis Maruk

Why did Calgary trade Kent Nillson and guy Choiunard

Why the hell did the Kings trade Larry Murphy

Why did the Canucks trade Vaive and Derlago

Why did Toronto trade Wilf Paiment

 

[PistolPete]

Why did Washington trade Dennis Maruk

For a 2nd rdp pick after seasons of 52, 50, and 31 goals????

Why did Calgary trade Kent Nillson and guy Choiunard

They knew Nilsson was never going to lead them anywhere. He was a floater. Wasn't Chouinard injured a lot?

Why the hell did the Kings trade Larry Murphy

Always wondered this. Better defensive defenceman? Felt the need to getter better in that department?

Why did the Canucks trade Vaive and Derlago

Harry Neale hated both of them, felt they were lazy and going nowhere in their careers (also told the Canuxks to not bother protecting Mike Roger's because he was too small to be effective)

Why did Toronto trade Wilf Paiment

Streaky scorer and injured a lot

 

[The Panther]

The Larry Murphy one has always been a real head-scratcher.

Imagine you draft a very talented six-foot-two Dman, 4th overall. You bring him into your fairly crappy team as a 19-year-old. The club immediately improves 25 points in the standings (!), with the rookie Dman putting up a record 76 points.

After three full seasons in L.A. (Kings' 1980-81 to 1982-83 stats):
-- 2nd best plus/minus of Kings' Dmen (one of only two who played 50+ games and was a 'plus')
-- 204 points scored (almost 100 points more than the next Dman)

Who's the genius who decided to take this 21-year-old... and trade him??

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Larry Murphy one has always been a real head-scratcher.

Imagine you draft a very talented six-foot-two Dman, 4th overall. You bring him into your fairly crappy team as a 19-year-old. The club immediately improves 25 points in the standings (!), with the rookie Dman putting up a record 76 points.

After three full seasons in L.A. (Kings' 1980-81 to 1982-83 stats):
-- 2nd best plus/minus of Kings' Dmen (one of only two who played 50+ games and was a 'plus')
-- 204 points scored (almost 100 points more than the next Dman)

Who's the genius who decided to take this 21-year-old... and trade him??

COHEN’S KINGS CATASTROPHES – CHAPTER 6 | The Royal Half

Jesse Cohen is back with a new Chapter of Cohen's Kings Catastrophes. This week, he looks at the LA Kings trade of Larry Murphy to the Washington Capitals.

theroyalhalf.com

For those that can’t listen to the file, Larry Murphy explains that he had gone to salary arbitration after his first contract was up. The arbitrator heard from Murphy and General Manager George Maguire and came back with a number that was actually lower than what the Kings had wanted to pay Murphy. Murphy had already struggled with the role expected of him by new coach Don Perry and told Maguire he wouldn’t play for what the arbitrator had ruled and that they might as well trade him.

 

[PistolPete]

COHEN’S KINGS CATASTROPHES – CHAPTER 6 | The Royal Half

Jesse Cohen is back with a new Chapter of Cohen's Kings Catastrophes. This week, he looks at the LA Kings trade of Larry Murphy to the Washington Capitals.

theroyalhalf.com

Figures.

A puzzling trade usually comes down to salary dispute plus an inept GM when it's so lopsided

Maguire is the GM who traded 1st rdp in '79 (8th overall) for Ron Grahame; a 1st rdp in 82 (6th overall) for Rick Martin and a 1st rdp in '83 (5th overall) for Jerry Korab

The players drafted?

Ray Bourque
Phil Housley
Tom Barrasso

 

[MadLuke]

i was going to say non-hockey reason could often simply be what going on... some like Marcel Dionne is just well known

That said, Murphy moved so much, while winning cups, it is a strange combo.

Could be more everyone wanted him than people not wanting to keep him...

A very quick look but it seem the team he went on improved and then declined the year he leave.

 

[MS]

Why did the Canucks trade Vaive and Derlago

As was already noted, the Canucks thought both were partying/drinking their careers away and weren't committed to being quality NHL players. And they ended up being right and wrong as both went on to be quite productive for several years ... but also ended up heading up the boozing culture for the terrible Leaf teams of the 1980s. Vaive was basically an alcoholic by the end of his career although he managed to clean himself up later, and everything I've heard is that Derlago basically drank himself out of the NHL.

 

[PistolPete]

As was already noted, the Canucks thought both were partying/drinking their careers away and weren't committed to being quality NHL players. And they ended up being right and wrong as both went on to be quite productive for several years ... but also ended up heading up the boozing culture for the terrible Leaf teams of the 1980s. Vaive was basically an alcoholic by the end of his career although he managed to clean himself up later, and everything I've heard is that Derlago basically drank himself out of the NHL.

Did you have a chance to read Vaive's autobiography? It us crazy how much drinking they did back then.

He mentioned Greg Terrion, John Anderson and Borje Salming and of course Derlago.

Imagine, a quarter of your roster are hard drinkers!

 

[MS]

Did you have a chance to read Vaive's autobiography? It us crazy how much drinking they did back then.

He mentioned Greg Terrion, John Anderson and Borje Salming and of course Derlago.

Imagine, a quarter of your roster are hard drinkers!

I'm aware of the content a bit but didn't read it. Did read an article a few years ago about how Miroslav Frycer arrived in Toronto as a fairly naive Czech defector and the culture around the Leafs basically turned him into a drunk.

Russ Courtnall ended up in rehab later in his career also. Probably pretty close to half the team circa 1985 ended up with (or already had) pretty serious drinking/substance abuse issues.

The Leafs were a bad place to end up in the 1980s for a lot of reasons.

 

[PistolPete]

I'm aware of the content a bit but didn't read it. Did read an article a few years ago about how Miroslav Frycer arrived in Toronto as a fairly naive Czech defector and the culture around the Leafs basically turned him into a drunk.

Russ Courtnall ended up in rehab later in his career also. Probably pretty close to half the team circa 1985 ended up with (or already had) pretty serious drinking/substance abuse issues.

The Leafs were a bad place to end up in the 1980s for a lot of reasons.

Wow.

Didn't hear about Courtnall or Frycer.

Walt Poddubny was another...but not sure if it started or had gotten worse in Toronto, but he did pass through briefly

 

[MS]

Wow.

Didn't hear about Courtnall or Frycer.

Walt Poddubny was another...but not sure if it started or had gotten worse in Toronto, but he did pass through briefly

Poddubny was there 5 years from 81-86 aged 21-26 so yup, he's another one who was there for pretty much that whole era and had major drinking problems.

Here's the Frycer article which is now unfortunately behind a paywall.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/former-maple-leaf-miroslav-frycer-just-happy-to-be-alive/article_37bc5040-7d1b-55f0-a6bc-c5b670f1e06c.html

 

[PistolPete]

Poddubny was there 5 years from 81-86 aged 21-26 so yup, he's another one who was there for pretty much that whole era and had major drinking problems.

Here's the Frycer article which is now unfortunately behind a paywall.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/former-maple-leaf-miroslav-frycer-just-happy-to-be-alive/article_37bc5040-7d1b-55f0-a6bc-c5b670f1e06c.html

And he was probably more susceptible dealing with a whole nee culture- social and political, language and the pressure to go out and score 40 goals (this being Toronto it's a safe bet the media out lofy expectations on him)

 

[The Panther]

I'm aware of the content a bit but didn't read it. Did read an article a few years ago about how Miroslav Frycer arrived in Toronto as a fairly naive Czech defector and the culture around the Leafs basically turned him into a drunk.

Russ Courtnall ended up in rehab later in his career also. Probably pretty close to half the team circa 1985 ended up with (or already had) pretty serious drinking/substance abuse issues.

The Leafs were a bad place to end up in the 1980s for a lot of reasons.

Hey, not to worry, the team's medical staff was Harold Ballard's bowling partner from 1947....

Geoff Courtnall had issues, too. The Courtnall bros' father committed suicide, so there were some challenges in that family. Leafs' mid-80s' atmosphere probably not helping.

 

[The Panther]

COHEN’S KINGS CATASTROPHES – CHAPTER 6 | The Royal Half

Jesse Cohen is back with a new Chapter of Cohen's Kings Catastrophes. This week, he looks at the LA Kings trade of Larry Murphy to the Washington Capitals.

theroyalhalf.com

Thanks! That certainly answers my long-standing question about this...

40+ years ago, NHL clubs at the management level seemed not yet to have figured out that 18-21 year old blue-chip prospects who had just emerged as strong NHL players were more important to future success than recent AHL-level coaches with grudges and whims.

 

[PistolPete]

Thanks! That certainly answers my long-standing question about this...

40+ years ago, NHL clubs at the management level seemed not yet to have figured out that 18-21 year old blue-chip prospects who had just emerged as strong NHL players were more important to future success than recent AHL-level coaches with grudges and whims.

No. Most GM s knew this. .George Maguire was a special exception.

A 1st rounder for Ron Grahame, Rick Martin, and Jerry Korab in '78, '82 and '83.

His saving grace was Detroit signing Rogie Vachon and eventually getting a 1st rdp in '80 and '81.

The Derroit pick turned into Larry Murphy in '80 and jn '81 it bombed with Doug Snith.

An indication of his incompetence is the fact that he used the 10th overall puck to select Jim Fix in 1980; he could have drafted him in '79 or even signed him as an FA after the '79 draft. If he liked him enough in '80 to draft him 10th overall you'd think he saw him enough to roll the dice and use a low draft puck on him or even sign him as FA.

 

[reckoning]

At the time, the Murphy-Engblom trade wasn't considered to be a bad deal for the Kings. Most observers felt it was two teams addressing a need: Washington needed offence, Los Angeles needed defence. Murphy was obviously talented offensively, but prone to defensive lapses. Engblom didn't score much, but was a excellent stay-at-home defenceman. It looked like both teams would benefit.

There's a LA-Bos game on YT that took place shortly after the trade, and the Kings announcers are pumping up Engblom about how they finally have their defensive centrepiece on the team who can play 30 minutes a night and be their rock on the blue line. Things didn't work out that way. Engblom suffered an eye injury late in the previous season when he got hit with a puck, and indications seem to be that he was never the same player after that.

The book on Los Angeles in the 80s was: great offence, terrible defence. It figures that the one time they tried sacrificing offence for defence. it backfired.

 

[PistolPete]

At the time, the Murphy-Engblom trade wasn't considered to be a bad deal for the Kings. Most observers felt it was two teams addressing a need: Washington needed offence, Los Angeles needed defence. Murphy was obviously talented offensively, but prone to defensive lapses. Engblom didn't score much, but was a excellent stay-at-home defenceman. It looked like both teams would benefit.

There's a LA-Bos game on YT that took place shortly after the trade, and the Kings announcers are pumping up Engblom about how they finally have their defensive centrepiece on the team who can play 30 minutes a night and be their rock on the blue line. Things didn't work out that way. Engblom suffered an eye injury late in the previous season when he got hit with a puck, and indications seem to be that he was never the same player after that.

The book on Los Angeles in the 80s was: great offence, terrible defence. It figures that the one time they tried sacrificing offence for defence. it backfired.

And even worse goaltending

And something many may not know about Engvlom is he garnered Norris Trophy consideration before his trade to Washington.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was the cornerstone to the Walter trade rather than Langway

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

i was going to say non-hockey reason could often simply be what going on... some like Marcel Dionne is just well known

That said, Murphy moved so much, while winning cups, it is a strange combo.

Could be more everyone wanted him than people not wanting to keep him...

A very quick look but it seem the team he went on improved and then declined the year he leave.

I can only offer a hilarious story I read once regarding Murphy (paraphrasing because I don't have the exact source handy, but I believe it was mentioned in the book about Bettman by Gatehouse):

*During some round of NHLPA labour negotiations (likely 1995), noted PA rep McSorely is trying to rally the players to hang on in negotiations, etc, etc*
McSorely: C'mon Murphy, haven't you got any balls?
Murphy: I don't think with my balls Marty

Did you have a chance to read Vaive's autobiography? It us crazy how much drinking they did back then.

He mentioned Greg Terrion, John Anderson and Borje Salming and of course Derlago.

Imagine, a quarter of your roster are hard drinkers!

Wasnt Anderson the born again Christian guy that Ballard got rid of?

 

[PistolPete]

I can only offer a hilarious story I read once regarding Murphy (paraphrasing because I don't have the exact source handy, but I believe it was mentioned in the book about Bettman by Gatehouse):






Wasnt Anderson the born again Christian guy that Ballard got rid of?

Doug Jarvis who you're thinking of?

 

[Johnny Engine]

Laurie Boschman was one Christian player who Ballard had problems with. There could have been others.

 

[MS]

At the time, the Murphy-Engblom trade wasn't considered to be a bad deal for the Kings. Most observers felt it was two teams addressing a need: Washington needed offence, Los Angeles needed defence. Murphy was obviously talented offensively, but prone to defensive lapses. Engblom didn't score much, but was a excellent stay-at-home defenceman. It looked like both teams would benefit.

There's a LA-Bos game on YT that took place shortly after the trade, and the Kings announcers are pumping up Engblom about how they finally have their defensive centrepiece on the team who can play 30 minutes a night and be their rock on the blue line. Things didn't work out that way. Engblom suffered an eye injury late in the previous season when he got hit with a puck, and indications seem to be that he was never the same player after that.

The book on Los Angeles in the 80s was: great offence, terrible defence. It figures that the one time they tried sacrificing offence for defence. it backfired.

Yeah, Engblom has become a very forgotten player who looks like a journeyman on paper now but he was considered a very elite defensive defender in the 1980-83 sort of timeframe, and basically on a level with Rod Langway when both were traded to Washington. 2nd Team All Star in 1982.

 

[PistolPete]

Yeah, Engblom has become a very forgotten player who looks like a journeyman on paper now but he was considered a very elite defensive defender in the 1980-83 sort of timeframe, and basically on a level with Rod Langway when both were traded to Washington. 2nd Team All Star in 1982.

The irony is that the Montreal-Washkngtin trade looks even worse from Montreal's perspective.

Ryan Walter was a defensive dynamo but bot much on offense. In hindsight, was he really worth Langway AND Engblom?

 

[Staniowski]

Engblom was never as good as Langway, but some people thought he was.

It turned out that Montreal didn't miss Langway and Engblom that much, with the additions of Ludwig and Chelios, plus Rick Green from the trade.

Green and Walter were really good pieces for the Habs though the '80s. So the trade wasn't anything close to a disaster.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I've never had a reason to focus on him, but it seems to me - in passing - that Rick Green had a really, really nice 1989 playoffs. I doubt the stats will bear it out, but he's not nothin' from what I've seen...

 

[PistolPete]

Engblom was never as good as Langway, but some people thought he was.

It turned out that Montreal didn't miss Langway and Engblom that much, with the additions of Ludwig and Chelios, plus Rick Green from the trade.

Green and Walter were really good pieces for the Habs though the '80s. So the trade wasn't anything close to a disaster.

Yup. It was.

They traded two Norris quality defenseman for an offensive star who ended up being merely a defensively specialist- of which they also traded in Doug Jarvis. Then also Craig Lauhhlin also became a good 3rd line 20 goals or more defensive specialist- which is what Walter became.

It didn't kill Montreal's franchise, but from '83 on, if the team could reverse thr trade- even let the Capitsls keep Laughlin Jarvis as well as Green, I'm sure they would have done it in a heartbeat