Why did Juolevi bust?

[Rpenny]

I’m probably the most hesitant person on this site to put the bust label on someone, but with Juolevi now having been traded away from his drafting team for scraps, and then being waived by the Panthers this morning I don’t think it can be denied any longer.

I know people thought the pick was a bit of a reach, but I never thought there was any issue with it. Seemed like he was tracking as the best D prospect in the draft once Chychrun started to slide so I thought it was a fine pick for Vancouver.

Why did his game fail to pan out in the NHL?

See the facts ignore the place he was taken. He was a raw talent where on GM saw more than there was

 

[IComeInPeace]

He can’t pivot or skate

This seems for too simplistic…however, it truly is this simple.

OJ, at his first Canucks prospects came (before the knee surgery) was getting turnstiled by 2nd and 3rd rate prospects. It was shocking.

At the time everyone said ‘he needs to gain strength in his legs’ or ‘he doesn’t excel in these types of games with no team structure’

It never got any better. At all.

Throw in a knee surgery and a lower back surgery, and he looks like he never learned to turn while skating backwards.

There is a pre-season game with a highlight of Milan Lucic (!!!) turnstiles him. It may be the slowest any player has ever moved to go around a d-man in NHL history.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Regardless of teams he’s played on he’s shown he could contribute. He thought he could get by on pedigree! Injuries. Thread!

 

[iam76]

he actually hasn't been bad this year for the cats. but yah based on his draft position..

 

[Gentle Man]

Hips don't lie

 

[HockeyWooot]

Injuries
Lacks drive/ambition/intensity to become a pro

 

[Kryten]

Peaked in high school. Elite hands, bad body

 

[Love]

His compete level is non existent

 

[sting101]

Early development
Played on loaded teams which made games easier and attributed to a wicked resume for a draft eligible
Drafted too high. Resume and IQ weighted too highly over mediocre tools (shot skating speed)
Immature and poor work ethic sense of entitlement. Led to a poor start as a pro
Injuries injuries and more injuries that did nothing but attribute to him being unable to make significant progress. Most importantly to his leg drive explosive power and agility. Has a really bad pivot that needed special attention
Then completely pissed off management and the coaches with his antics to conditioning at this years camp which pretty much sealed his fate in Van.
I assume more injury issues in Florida. Has played 100 pro games in 4yrs. As someone said beer leaguers with families played more.
Needs to play hockey........ its kinda sad now

 

[orcatown]

Saw him at his first training camp. Camp was at a place called Shawnigan Lake on Vancouver Island. I was walking around the campus and saw this guy off to himself well away from the rest of the team just wandering around. Seemed strange. We said hi but he didn't he even look at us. Turned out to be Joulevi.

Later was with some coaches watching the scrimmage. Right away we all agreed is skating was disappointing and one pointed out he couldn't pivot well and didn't have the wheels to make space for himself to make a play. He was with a bunch of rookies and players on try outs but still couldn't get back to the puck quick enough to prevent a forward from getting in on top of him. Resorted to just blindly backhanding the puck around the back of the net giving his problems off to his partner. Nor did he join the rush a or do anything in the offensive zone.

There was some suggestion from Canuck management that they'd got the next Lidstrom. Instead they got a player who right from the start, and at ever level he played at, was in over his head. Some, who chronically try to make excuses for the truly inept Benning, try to use injury as the problem. But there was never a time when he looked to have the ability to play in the NHL especially in handling speed to the outside.

Truth is that he was with very gifted players in Junior and on the Finnish Junior National team which allowed him to operate in space and build his stats. When he didn't have that around, he was quickly exposed as lacking some very basic skills and the speed needed to play high level pro hockey. Throw in some attitude issue (as shown in his death throes during this year's training camp bag skate) and you got the disaster that was Joulevi.

 

[Black Kevin]

True:

Injuries ruined him.
He can't skate for shit anymore.
He's been very unlucky.

Also true:
He's arrogant.
He was drafted too high.

Not true:
He's an NHL-level player

 

[JPeeper]

 

[Garbageyuk]

Because he sucks.

 

[mattihp]

The scouts looked at his size and not his drive and hockey IQ. Hopefully he can retool himself into a useful euro leagues player.

 

[OneSniffTwoSniff]

I think on top of the stated problems here, there was a case of him playing on absolutely stacked teams, where it was easier for him to shine as a top pairing defenseman.

In London he had Marner, Tkachuk, Dvorak, Thomas, Mete etc.

The Finnish gold winning wjc team was stacked also: Aho, Laine, Puljujärvi, Rantanen, Hintz, Kapanen etc.

No wonder he was able to put up great numbers on his draft year.

 

[DFF]

Phil Kessel syndrome

Kessel played over 1100 games and has almost 1000 points. Horrible syndrome

 

[WTFMAN99]

I watched more Jr hockey back then, I always came away more impressed with Mete.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Skating was his weakness and the injuries made his skating worse. He might have overcome this if he had the motivation to do so, but it seems as though he didn't.

 

[Dread Clawz]

I'm not betting on Juolevi right now but I agree that I hope he makes it to the AHL and just plays a solid amount of games over the back-end of the season - the Checkers will likely make the playoffs too.
I know people criticize his skating and turning at this point but there are ways you can reduce the impact of your worst attributes and there are ways you can improve on what you're already good at. No player is absolutely perfect. Some defensemen lack size, some lack offensive panache, some lack skating, but if they are good enough at the other parts of the game they can be put on pairings and deployed in situations where they can be successful.
Juolevi hasn't played anything close to a "complete season" since 2017-2018 - so over four years ago when he split 63 games between TPS and the international team.
He's only 23 now so that means he hasn't played a complete season in his development years since his 19-yo season (Juolevi has a late-ish May birthday).
Some college defensemen make the jump to pro at 23-24, and they aren't perfect when they reach the NHL, but they still manage to improve over the next couple of seasons and into their late 20s.
The joys of being a defenseman, I guess - but this is his last chance.

Yeah, he can still carve out a career as a decent nhl D, but he has to stay healthy. He wasn't that bad in Florida, we just needed to waive someone to make room for recent signee Petteri Lindbohm. I think playing a lot of ahl games here is actually the best thing for him.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Played on a stacked London Knights team and a lot of scouts ended up seeing things that just weren't there in the end

Also, stacked Finnish junior team.

Overall, playing defense in the NHL is very difficult.

 

[kerrabria]

I just posted the following in the waivers thread in response to somebody asking for a scouting report from somebody whose seen him play recently. Thought I'd post it here too. Wanna state that I was excited we got a player of his pedigree for two AHLers, and I liked his game a bit more than most on our board.

I've liked him when he's played in Florida. Struck me as a perfectly capable bottom pair guy with tons of room to grow.
In a 10 game sample size...

Pros

• Great size and reach
• Clearly high iq on both ends of the ice
• Very decisive with the puck and away from it
• Knew when to pinch, did it effectively, and didn't get caught/burned up-ice
  
• Good with the puck at the point (moves his feet, can keep it in the zone)
• Always made noticeably hard, crisp passses
• Has a hard shot
  
• Positionally sound
• Didn't shy away from physical play or shotblocking

Cons

• Bad skater overall: slow footspeed, doesn't have a powerful stride, can't corroborate Vancouver fans' screeching about his inability to pivot--that wasn't noticeable to me.
• He reminded me of Ekblad in that he could compensate for his crappy skating with his size and reach. Again, his skating was bad, but it wasn't like "holy crap he's the worst skater on the ice BY FAR!"
• Inaccurate first pass. Just not great with the puck deep in his zone. But honestly, when he botched that, it looked like your standard young d-man who lacked confidence and was gripping his stick too tight. Based on how he looked passing/with the puck everywhere else besides starting the breakout, I expected him to figure it out with experience. Decisiveness is a strength. I actually think that giving him too much to sit with the puck psyched him out.
  
• Conditioning was bad. He always looked winded.
• Never available to play. Whether he was sick, tweaking something in practice, getting bopped hard in-game...he needs to play in order to get better, and he usually isn't ready to play.

 

[WarriorofTime]

One thing is clear from this thread - there is no fanbase that has more of a personal vindictive attitude towards players that don’t play well than Canuck fans. They make Philly look like a pleasant easygoing sports town.

 

[AdvancedPressure]

I cringed when JB passed over Tkachuk for Juolevi. It was one of those dumb f***ing "big brain", draft-for-need type of picks that is absolutely inexcusable when you're picking 5th overall and desperately need young stars for your rebuild. OJ's skating is not good enough for the NHL level. He can move the puck pretty well, and he does seem to have a good hockey sense, but the necessary physical tools are just not there. To be fair, injuries may have played a role in this.

 

[Stephen]

For every Moritz Seider, there's an Olli Juolevi. Sometimes teams get caught up in the projection of desirable player types.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

For every Moritz Seider, there's an Olli Juolevi. Sometimes teams get caught up in the projection of desirable player types.

They are teammates now.