Why did Genoni never get a chance in NHL?

[Sanf]

I like this low-key "What's wrong with Liiga?" thread.

Hahaa sorry for the extreme OT. But the fact is that the original question was fairly easy to answer maybe. To keep it in subject I found the old interview from 2019 when he signed that 5 year deal without NHL clause.

Were you never interested in playing in North America?​

Not really. In my early years, there was only a limited opportunity to move to North America. At that time I didn't have enough international experience to be able to draw any attention to myself. Now I am at the point in my career where everything would have to change to make the move to North America. I chose the EV Zug and I deliberately didn't include a withdrawal clause in my contract because I have big plans with EVZ and I want to be part of the team.
[Interview] Leonardo Genoni – A Shutout for Cyber Security

 

[aniketus]

Same reason Benjamin Conz wasn't drafted their too small.

 

[Albatros]

Hutchinson/Pysyk thing. Sure it caught almost everybody by surprise that Saipa actually invested for their blooming success. Though those players fall in the "artist taxing" because they stay in the country less than 6 months. That is much lesser taxes so you can might lure bit bigger name. They were rental from the start.

In Finland hockey players can generally invest half their salary tax free, so you only have to pay for the other half anyway. Having all-year contracts is by no means the norm everywhere in Europe to start with.

 

[Hinterland]

I dont disagree that the SHL is somewhat better than the NLA but I dont think its a whole other tier of quality like some posters have suggested in this thread. The fact that some younger guys go over there has also to do with the quality of the junior leagues in both countries. The Swedish J20 is still a good fallback option to develop further if you dont make the pros right away while the Swiss U20 (now U21) league is not really a place you want to be as a 18/19 year old with pro ambitions. In Bichsels and maybe in Rebers case as well lack of opportunity with their respective native pro teams also have played a role in their decision to move. So there is definitely some interest for Swiss players to go to Sweden. But I dont think its mainly because the quality of the SHL.

I don't think the SHL is a much better league than the NL at all. I think the level is probably similar. It's very different though. The SHL is much better at player development though because coaching is much better. Teams don't have unlimited money either so they're more interested in actually developing players than many Swiss teams, too. It's probably more physically demanding, lower scoring, too and therefore a better preparation for players with NHL ambitions, too while the NL is more of a skill competition, more of a show, more of a stage for Europe's biggest names looking for a big pay day and a light schedule.

 

[Hinterland]

Hahaa sorry for the extreme OT. But the fact is that the original question was fairly easy to answer maybe. To keep it in subject I found the old interview from 2019 when he signed that 5 year deal without NHL clause.

Were you never interested in playing in North America?​

Not really. In my early years, there was only a limited opportunity to move to North America. At that time I didn't have enough international experience to be able to draw any attention to myself. Now I am at the point in my career where everything would have to change to make the move to North America. I chose the EV Zug and I deliberately didn't include a withdrawal clause in my contract because I have big plans with EVZ and I want to be part of the team.
[Interview] Leonardo Genoni – A Shutout for Cyber Security

Thx. So I remembered correctly. Probably from an interview then.

Like I said. Legendary goalie, very good at what he did in Switzerland. I think he was a smart man to stay at home though. I may be unfair but I don't think he would have done well in the NHL. At least not as a starter. As a 1b or backup maybe.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Nothing wrong with being comfortable in familiar surroundings

 

[Nick25]

Why did swiss u20 Leauge change to u21?

Dont forget Fiala. He played in SHL.

It's called Impact +1. Essentially, every junior age group has been extended by one year:

• U15 → U16
• U17 → U18
• U20 → U21

One of the main reasons behind this change was the high dropout rate around age 15. For example, there were 36 elite U15 teams, but by the U17 level, only 13 elite teams remained. As a result, many kids stopped playing hockey altogether. The hope is that by extending each age group by a year, more players will stay in the sport longer.
Under the new structure, the top-tier system consists of 36 teams at the U14 level, then reduces to 24 at U16, and finally to 13 teams at U18. The idea is that a more gradual reduction in team numbers might prevent such a steep drop-off in player participation.
Additionally, this change brings the age groups more in line with other European junior leagues, where U16 and U18 categories are the standard, potentially raising the level of competition. Also, by extending the age limit to U21, I believe the goal was to raise the overall level of the league, as the competition in this league has been relatively weak compared to other European junior leagues. I think the gab between professional hockey (NL) and junior hockey gets bigger each year and they hope to close it with this extension.

I am not sure if any of these improvements have any positive impact. Perhaps it would be interesting to talk about this in a seperate thread.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

he makes good money in the Swiss league and the Swiss league while it is getting better, it is nowhere near that of the Swedish and FInnish leagues.

Also, not every European player wants to go to the NHL.

Not sure about Sweden but surprised you feel the Swiss league is "nowhere near" the Finnish league.

Especially with the KHL currently not an option for most Finnish players, it seems the majority of the top Finns outside the NHL prefer playing in Switzerland and not the domestic league.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Not sure about Sweden but surprised you feel the Swiss league is "nowhere near" the Finnish league.

Especially with the KHL currently not an option for most Finnish players, it seems the majority of the top Finns outside the NHL prefer playing in Switzerland and not the domestic league.

I have lived in Europe for 25 years and have been taking in games in all leagues. My open statement was "the league is getting better" but there is room to improve as with any league.

If you look at many teams rosters, you will see familiar faces who were 3rd or 4th liners in the NHL but top 5 on teams in the Swiss league. I have been pushing the Swiss league for awhile but it is not at the OVERALL level of the Swedish and Fins leagues. Germany, Slovakia, Latvia, Denmark and the Swiss leagues are all getting better and closing ground on Sweden and Finish leagues. But it takes time.

 

[Devilsfan118]

Would you go to NHL if you have a chance to live in your home country, sleep at your bed after every road game in one of the top leagues outside of NHL and have one milion francs per year contract ?

Financial gain, personal ambition, desire to compete at the highest level, etc.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Financial gain, personal ambition, desire to compete at the highest level, etc.

You are confusing European way of thinking to that of North American. I have talked to several real good Euros who played their entire career here in Europe and had no interest in going across the pond. Mentality is is different over here when it comes to certain things.

Asking why player X never crossed the pond maybe a question that is then fallowed by.. Did he want to?

 

[Albatros]

I have been pushing the Swiss league for awhile but it is not at the OVERALL level of the Swedish and Fins leagues.

One is not like the other...

 

[Jumptheshark]

One is not like the other...

..and that would be the Swiss league. Both Sweden and Finland have their ups and down in development. Like Canada and the USA. But the Swiss league is still a step down from both

 

[Albatros]

Liiga relies more on the downs than ups.

 

[SoundAndFury]

If you look at many teams rosters, you will see familiar faces who were 3rd or 4th liners in the NHL but top 5 on teams in the Swiss league.

Yes, while in Finland, the top imports in terms of scoring are: Michal Kovarcik who left the Czech Extraliga because he wasn't considered a top-6 option there (and has now signed back to the Extraliga after being the top-scoring forward in Finland), Patrick Curry signed from ECHL and Simon Hjalmarsson who got to Finland via Austria after becoming too old to play in the SHL.

In terms of top players, Liiga wouldn't even be in the same planet with top European leagues anymore if not for veterans who want to finish their career in Finland like Lehtera or Hartikainen.

 

[Sanf]

Yes, while in Finland, the top imports in terms of scoring are: Michal Kovarcik who left the Czech Extraliga because he wasn't considered a top-6 option there (and has now signed back to the Extraliga after being the top-scoring forward in Finland), Patrick Curry signed from ECHL and Simon Hjalmarsson who got to Finland via Austria after becoming too old to play in the SHL.

In terms of top players, Liiga wouldn't even be in the same planet with top European leagues anymore if not for veterans who want to finish their career in Finland like Lehtera or Hartikainen.

Yeah the situation is that. It is not hot take or controversial opinion that Liiga has lost many steps. And can be considered development league for NHL and top European leagues.

And it is not some fan talk. Last autumn Sports Manager of Lukko Kalle Sahlstedt told in interview that many North American choose mid level team in Germany before Liiga. Even if they pay the same. Liiga is considered way too tactical for many. And Lukko is in upper echelon of Finnish teams with the ability to pay good money for players. He told that player agents are now offering them players from Norway, UK, Slovakia... There are several hockey people, coaches (some namelessly) criticized the situation.

This is not topic of hating Finland, Finnish hockey or Liiga. People are just worried about the situation.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Would you go to NHL if you have a chance to live in your home country, sleep at your bed after every road game in one of the top leagues outside of NHL and have one milion francs per year contract ?

Yes.

But that is because I would want to see where I stack up against the best and maybe make five times that eventually.

 

[Fatass]

I have lived in Europe for 25 years and have been taking in games in all leagues. My open statement was "the league is getting better" but there is room to improve as with any league.

If you look at many teams rosters, you will see familiar faces who were 3rd or 4th liners in the NHL but top 5 on teams in the Swiss league. I have been pushing the Swiss league for awhile but it is not at the OVERALL level of the Swedish and Fins leagues. Germany, Slovakia, Latvia, Denmark and the Swiss leagues are all getting better and closing ground on Sweden and Finish leagues. But it takes time.

Don’t 3rd and 4th liners in the nhl make 10-20 more in the nhl than in Swiss league? Why leave the nhl? Older and lost a couple steps?

 

[Albatros]

Don’t 3rd and 4th liners in the nhl make 10-20 more in the nhl than in Swiss league?

No. Around half million USD in Switzerland (netto) and one or two in the NHL typically. If you're getting less than two in the NHL and maybe even two-way then it's not that hard to see the Swiss option as more attractive.

 

[karhukissa]

Yes, while in Finland, the top imports in terms of scoring are: Michal Kovarcik who left the Czech Extraliga because he wasn't considered a top-6 option there (and has now signed back to the Extraliga after being the top-scoring forward in Finland), Patrick Curry signed from ECHL and Simon Hjalmarsson who got to Finland via Austria after becoming too old to play in the SHL.

In terms of top players, Liiga wouldn't even be in the same planet with top European leagues anymore if not for veterans who want to finish their career in Finland like Lehtera or Hartikainen.

True. At the moment Liiga has maybe 5 teams that are capable of signing players with big money. Bottom half of the teams are pretty much on a life support and breaking even is a good result money wise for them.

KHL really did hurt Liiga, not only did it take the biggest team from Liiga but also gave the oligarch money option to every player who did good in Liiga.

Finns are notorious for being supportive only when your team is winning, not like in Central Europe where every game is pretty much packed. For example legendary TPS (multiple times champion, team of Koivu's, Rantanen etc) is able to pull somewhere around 4-5k to their arena with capacity of 11k. That city has almost 200k citizens and to be able to pull 5k on average in a hockey crazy country is pathetic. They have multi-millionaire supercell owners who pretty much waste their money out of love for the club.

 

[Hinterland]

Yes.

But that is because I would want to see where I stack up against the best and maybe make five times that eventually.

Gotta know your limits. Genoni does. He's got that amazing record in playoff and international games not because he's talented but because he's a mental beast. That would be tough to impossible to repeat in the NHL where the season is longer, the schedule is tougher and the media pressure on a completely different level. I'm pretty confident he could have stuck around the NHL for a few seasons as a backup or 1B the way Berra (who was much better suited to succeed in NA) did but he was never gonna earn significantly more in NA than in Switzerland. He was also never interested in being a backup in the NHL when he can be a clear cut nr1 in Switzerland.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The way NHL operates is basically if a European guy is a draft pick:

(i) high draft pick (1-2 round), try to get them to come over as soon as possible/or when they are 20
(ii) mid round pick (3-4 round), monitor, likely plan to give them a contract before their rights expire, but don't be afraid to not if they haven't progressed
(iii) late round (5-6-7) lotto ticket, give them an ELC to bring over if they take a strong leap forward, or else just allow their rights to lapse very commonly

If not drafted at all [or at the stage of a former draft pick whose rights lapsed], then nobody is going to pay any attention. Of course if you pop off in your early 20s, someone will notice and offer a contract, otherwise will stay under the radar. If a player breaks out in their later 20s, then unless it's in a mega way, likely will remain ignored. Teams are focused on giving opportunity and development to their slate of young 20-something draft picks. It's very rare for a player to get NHL Contract offers at this stage.

 

[swissdude]

The way NHL operates is basically if a European guy is a draft pick:

(i) high draft pick (1-2 round), try to get them to come over as soon as possible/or when they are 20
(ii) mid round pick (3-4 round), monitor, likely plan to give them a contract before their rights expire, but don't be afraid to not if they haven't progressed
(iii) late round (5-6-7) lotto ticket, give them an ELC to bring over if they take a strong leap forward, or else just allow their rights to lapse very commonly

If not drafted at all [or at the stage of a former draft pick whose rights lapsed], then nobody is going to pay any attention. Of course if you pop off in your early 20s, someone will notice and offer a contract, otherwise will stay under the radar. If a player breaks out in their later 20s, then unless it's in a mega way, likely will remain ignored. Teams are focused on giving opportunity and development to their slate of young 20-something draft picks. It's very rare for a player to get NHL Contract offers at this stage.

and now the question arises whether this is good asset management, there are plenty of 3rd and 4th line players with a cap hit of 3-4 million which could be replaced relatively easily for the half without a decrease of quality. the suffering pressure is too low as the cap will be increased annually but NHL teams are not very efficient in my opinion in terms of payroll and performance received in return