Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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Why did Genoni never get a chance in NHL?
- Thread starter Eye of Ra
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Svedu
🇫🇮🇵🇸 🇨🇩Freedom,peace & SAUNA for everyone
- Apr 23, 2019
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Not only Hischier and others missing but this tournament missed all great finns like Julius Nättinen but also injured Swiss player Thurkauf. He's always been a rough and tough player. Very competitive.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
We are talking over all play and not individual play.
I like the Swiss league, well run and getting better. But overall they and the Germans are a step behind the Fins and Swedes.
And yes I go to games in all these leagues during the regular season and have for years.
And if you have been paying attention, I was one of the vocal people who believed the Swiss and Germans should have made it a 6 country tourney during the middle of the season
Mogo
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2002
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FinPanda
Barky is good
For an European player, playing for the national team at the WHC is a huge honor. The tournament may not be as popular overseas, but here it's huge and if someone wants to play at home making good money and being able to represent their home country.. It's a big honor.
I feel like NHL kinda ruined Finnish players. They have less of that pride to just come after a long season. Of course, they'd play best-on-best, but I remember times when Finns always came to represent the national team. Now the interest level is way lower.
Swiss league is good and making a lot of money, playing for the national team and being at home.. it sounds good to me.
I feel like NHL kinda ruined Finnish players. They have less of that pride to just come after a long season. Of course, they'd play best-on-best, but I remember times when Finns always came to represent the national team. Now the interest level is way lower.
Swiss league is good and making a lot of money, playing for the national team and being at home.. it sounds good to me.
SoundAndFury
Registered User
- May 28, 2012
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How to tell you know nothing about European hockey without saying you know nothing about European hockey. But I'm glad you decided to expand on that over multiple posts.
Saying NL is "a step behind" Liiga in 2025 is ridiculous. Even this year's Finnish NT had 6 Liiga players and 15 players from NL/SHL. Anyone making any real money is leaving Liiga to play abroad these days; it's a development league.
In Switzerland, you know the country that just played in 2 WC Finals in a row, nobody is leaving it unless they are NHL-bound so even the decades-old "imports are imports but the local player in Finland is so much better" argument falls very flat.
The fact, that you claim to "go to games in all these leagues during the regular season" makes it even more ridiculous. Kinda brings you to the same tier as flat earthers, where no matter how obvious the evidence is it's not good enough.
We have long since dropped from the top leagues of Europe. Multiple reasons... closing the league, expanding the league, choosing to play younger player instead of the better player. We bled the depth out of the Liiga.
The results in Champions league has been decent this far, but it is result of handful of team still competing and building Euro level teams. But this years Liiga results were worrying. Everybody say that this was good for Finnish hockey. Fun maybe, but I don´t know. Lot of teams are losing lot of money. And also quality players again outside of Liiga. I have hard time seeing Saipa being the new powerhouse of Finnish hockey.
GeeoffBrown
Registered User
- Jul 6, 2007
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Yes not every player wants to play in the NHL you know some are very content playing hockey in Europe and making a good living playing less games and spending more time with their family and friends.
PanniniClaus
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2006
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I think had anyone ever come to Genoni with an NHL deal, he would have tried it. His WJC teammate, Reto Berra did make the leap, to varying degrees of success.
I would think that he was offered some two-way deals and decided that wasn't the path for him. I have no proof of this.
What a goalie he is.
I would think that he was offered some two-way deals and decided that wasn't the path for him. I have no proof of this.
What a goalie he is.
Raccoon Jesus
Jim Hiller is point shaving games
From an NA perspective, I remember Berra getting a strong amount of hype, and i seem to recall Genoni's name coming up in a "if berra makes it then maybe someone will go get Genoni" sort of way. But it's obviously been a long while and my memory ain't what i used to be, heh. But as others have said, Genoni bloomed a bit later and it's pretty normal for ~30 YOs playing in European leagues to stay home.
I would think it's safe to assume it's true that some NHL teams have inquired about signing him to a two-way deal at various points in time, even if there's no record of it ever happening. It's also reasonable to assume that the response is "I'd consider a one-way deal but a two-way deal is a non-starter for negotiation." Something like that is just unlikely to be reported.
TheGreenTBer
I hate everyone equally
- Apr 30, 2021
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That’s a bit far in the other extreme, top players do get paid similar to the Swiss average. A few dozen guys in Switzerland and Sweden that are too good for Liiga and get paid accordingly. Many of them coming from the NHL. Otherwise mostly plugs that aren't good enough to make a difference in Liiga and find a nice contract somewhere else, this type of Swedes you've got in Liiga as well.
Liiga is not as good as it used to be but its still a good Leauge. DEL and Czechs Leauge have become a bit better.
1; NLA
2: SHL
3: Czechs Leauge
4: DEL
5: Liiga
1; NLA
2: SHL
3: Czechs Leauge
4: DEL
5: Liiga
SoundAndFury
Registered User
- May 28, 2012
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Well, KalPa just signed Hartikainen who had a very good season by anyone's standard so maybe it's them
Sorry but what are the numbers to which this analysis stands up to? Because as far as I can tell:
"I took some of the data to an excel sheet and did some calculations. HIFK average pay was 91 550 € with the median being 65 112 € with top earner earning 264 900 €. Ilves had these same numbers at 78 968 €, 75 030 € and 128 590 €, Kärpät had 89 357 €, 91 759 € and 190 630 €, HPK had 46 639 €, 39 221 € and 120 764 €, SaiPa had 48 634 €, 44 243 € and 110 113 €.
Full listing is here: Jättilista! Tässä ovat kovatuloisimmat liigakiekkoilijat – Yksi seura erottuu muista"
P.S. This is a Reddit post quoting Liiga finances that become open to the public in Finland after 1 year, meaning these are the numbers for the 2023 calendar year.
And that's with pretty monstrous taxes in Finland (not that the situation is very different in Switzerland). The top earner of Saipa, who literally made the Liiga finals this year, is being paid what would be considered a below-average salary in Switzerland.
Furthermore, maybe I'm just confused by your phrasing, but this is the list of 35 Finnish players in NL: Elite Prospects - NL Stats 2024-2025 . 4 of them: Peltonen twins, Pulli and Juvonen, fit your "plugs that aren't good enough to make the difference" description. 4/35. Otherwise, it's clearly the players who priced themselves out of Liiga. So I don't know about a few dozen since I would count 31 in Switzerland alone.
And yes, a few teams, like Sanf mentioned, still have 3+ million player budgets that are competitive with the rest of the good teams in Europe. Therefore, they do have a handful of players who are paid a competitive salary. But we are talking about what is now a 16-team league. A few top teams, especially since they aren't managed particularly well (looking at you, Karpat), can't outweigh the general direction the league is heading. And I don't think calling Liiga's general direction a development league is that extreme, at this point.
SaiPa despite their recent success has been financially one of the very weakest teams in the league, unable to compete even with the major Liiga organisations in that regard. In Switzerland you have teams like Ajoie in a similar position. Still even SaiPa could sign seasoned NHL veterans like Pysyk and Hutchinson. Second class sure, but not developmental.
Mismanaged organisations are many, but that's (sadly) not a Finnish specialty in hockey. I guess what JYP was doing trying to collect NHL transfer payments with Lambert & co. is the closest you get to a developmental role. Needless to say that really tanked their previously good on-ice success.
Mismanaged organisations are many, but that's (sadly) not a Finnish specialty in hockey. I guess what JYP was doing trying to collect NHL transfer payments with Lambert & co. is the closest you get to a developmental role. Needless to say that really tanked their previously good on-ice success.
Finland, Finns and their league gets hate and disrespect in threads that have nothing to do with the country, no wonder the Finns here don't bother posting as much since it's only negative responses to everything...
- Sep 29, 2016
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I agree with your post overall but there are still quite a few Swiss players leaving for Sweden. Mostly kids but there are/were Swiss players playing SHL, too (Dominik Egli, Lian Bichsel, Jamiro Reber) who easily could have played NL instead. The SHL is still much better than the NL tactically and it's also better for player development because coaches are much better. It's probably more demanding physically, too.
Liiga unfortunately lost some ground over the last years but finnish junior leagues are still a step ahead of Swiss junior leagues so you'll still see Swiss kids leaving for Finnland here and there.
- Sep 29, 2016
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I was always of the opinion that he's not interested in playing NHL but I forgot whether that was something he said in an interview or more of an insider information someone told me. I'm also not sure whether this was a general feeling or something that was just true for at a particular time. So I could be wrong but in the back of my mind I always had it that he's not interested in playing overseas. Probably wouldn't have made it over there anyway. Genoni is very small. Not a gifted goalie in terms of size and skill. He's good because he's a mental beast. Having to play more games in NA and the added media pressure probably would have broken him. For example he never gave any interviews during playoffs...something he needed to keep his focus but that's probably impossible in the NHL.
I dont disagree that the SHL is somewhat better than the NLA but I dont think its a whole other tier of quality like some posters have suggested in this thread. The fact that some younger guys go over there has also to do with the quality of the junior leagues in both countries. The Swedish J20 is still a good fallback option to develop further if you dont make the pros right away while the Swiss U20 (now U21) league is not really a place you want to be as a 18/19 year old with pro ambitions. In Bichsels and maybe in Rebers case as well lack of opportunity with their respective native pro teams also have played a role in their decision to move. So there is definitely some interest for Swiss players to go to Sweden. But I dont think its mainly because the quality of the SHL.
I think here is two problems. I do believe that the smaller clubs have even admitted that they are hunting players from the bigger clubs that have small role in there and they think might get drafted. Now there is ofcourse nothing wrong there, but when they are given far big role to showcase them that is problem.
Hutchinson/Pysyk thing. Sure it caught almost everybody by surprise that Saipa actually invested for their blooming success. Though those players fall in the "artist taxing" because they stay in the country less than 6 months. That is much lesser taxes so you can might lure bit bigger name. They were rental from the start.
Outside of that. Almost third of the players in Liiga are foreigners. And nothing wrong in that. But the reason again is those are so much cheaper than Finnish players. I think some have admitted that they can´t afford Finnish starting goalie. I mean you can and they have found gems from ECHL and Hockey Allsvenskan or smaller leagues. But the "pro scouting" has give some very mixed results.
So to really paint an really ugly picture lot of players are youngster in hope of getting transfer money and cheap foreigners. I mean things are ofcourse not horribly bad
But the direction has been long wrong. I wish I would be smart enough to say what would fix it. Ofcourse I can say cut the league smaller. Cut the junior league smaller. But at the end the biggest reason is that there just isn´t money in Finnish sport.
Shark Finn
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