Why couldn't the Pens win the Cup from 2010-2015?

[Ocoee]

because between 2010 and 2015 Marc-Andre Fleury stopped only 89% of the playoff shots he faced

(but Penguins fans blame Bylsma anyway)

You're too narrow minded to look at the coaches and systems played during that time to see what the problem was. Bylsma was the reason for the Pens playoff failures other than 2011 when they lost to Tampa(even though they blew a 3-1 lead, they shouldnt have been up by that without Crosby and Malkin). Bylsma was a playoff failure other than his magical run when he took over for Therrien in '09. Sullivan is showing that.

 

[LeafFever]

One word: DEPTH

Rutherford answered all their depth issues with fantastic moves in 2015-16. The Pens were severely lacking that since their cup win in 09'.

 

[HitoftheMillennium*]

It was really due to a combination of inferior coaching, unreliable goaltending and a lack of depth.

Also, Kessel has been a better playoff performer for them than Neal was.

 

[Terry Yake]

One word: DEPTH

Rutherford answered all their depth issues with fantastic moves in 2015-16. The Pens were severely lacking that since their cup win in 09'.

pretty much this. also:

crosby/malkin injuries
fleury's inconsistency
bylsma/johnston

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Dan Bylsma, for the most part.

Also a general lack of depth, but that can partially be attributed to Bylsma playing plugs (Adams and Glass were linemates ) over youngsters.

 

[lawrence]

This is by far and away the biggest reason.

Sullivan makes the kind of adjustments that Bylsma never did. If something isn't working, Sullivan switches things up in an attempt to fix them. Bylsma just kept doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result.

A close second is firing Shero and bringing in Rutherford. Shero never really built an identity for the team. He just brought in a mish-mash of players in the hopes of improving the roster, but with no real vision of what type of team or what style of play he's building towards. JR identified skill and speed, and that's the type of players he (generally) brought in.

interesting, thank's for the insight.

 

[The Gobfather*]

Depth a coach who actually uses his Brain and it can't be said enough that they finally don't have a coach that feed into that after the whistle nonsense they just play

 

[Canucks1096]

Pits made some really great moves the last few seasons Every moved worked out.

Getting Kessel, Bonino Hagelin Cullen Daley Schutz

Letting young players play Rust Sheary Guentzel

These moves made team faster and with more depth and scoring. Also made the team transition the puck faster with Daley and Schutz. With Bonino there able to use a 3rd scoring line.

Sullivan is one smart coach. The previous coaches put the best wingers with Crosby or Malkin however they can play with any winger so a lot of times last year they put Kessel 3rd lines to form 3 scoring lines. No team can stop 3 scoring lines. If Pita didn't have 3 scoring lines They wouldn't of won the Cup.

Every move Pits made was awesome.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Not even a Cup Finals appearance.

So what is it that makes the Pens this much better (the most) now?

Murray? Kessel?

coaching?

Overall defence?

cheap producers in: Guentzel, Sheary, Rust, Schultz?

3rd liners? (Bonino and co)

Other teams played better when it counted.

 

[BruinLVGA]

1) A few of those seasons Fleury was terrible in the playoffs.
2) Crosby/Malkin were always injured.
3) Also, the Pens reminded me of the my Red Wings, kept signing older vets when you need speed/youth in the post-lockout era.
4) Blackhawks/Kings were better.

#4 is absolutely no factor whatsoever as they didn't even make the finals.

 

[Ivo]

1) A few of those seasons Fleury was terrible in the playoffs.
2) Crosby/Malkin were always injured.
3) Also, the Pens reminded me of the my Red Wings, kept signing older vets when you need speed/youth in the post-lockout era.
4) Blackhawks/Kings were better.

Is that really relevant considering that they never met either of those teams in the playoffs?

I think the first two reasons are important ones. They had their best chance in 2013, but Boston had a great team then and was just better than the Pens.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Coaching.

You have to get the right coach to fit your team, and that's what I think happened in this case.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Is that really relevant considering that they never met either of those teams in the playoffs?

I think the first two reasons are important ones. They had their best chance in 2013, but Boston had a great team then and was just better than the Pens.

And the Pens really underachieved that series. Pens severely underachieved against the Islanders and still destroyed them in the games they won. Pens played like gods against the Sens and fitting won the series 4-1 that season.

 

[TheKingPin]

Bylsma and the flyers.

Hopefully we make the playoffs next year and knock them out.

 

[eXile59]

-Bad coaching
-Bad goaltending
-Can't win a championship with two players

 

[Mubiki]

The playing of more younger players seems to be it for me. The Penguins have been smart recently in only bringing in vets that have skill sets that mesh with the team, and also that they aren't expecting to play like they did 5 years ago. Guys like Kessel and Cullen. They weren't doing these things before.

I wonder when some of the other teams are going to figure out what the Penguins and Hawks did; that it's better to play young, hungry hockey players that WANT to learn and get better instead of veterans all the time. People crap on unproven players all the time for no reason. Some of these guys are literally playing for their future. There's a lot to be said about that level of drive.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

You're too narrow minded to look at the coaches and systems played during that time to see what the problem was. Bylsma was the reason for the Pens playoff failures other than 2011 when they lost to Tampa(even though they blew a 3-1 lead, they shouldnt have been up by that without Crosby and Malkin). Bylsma was a playoff failure other than his magical run when he took over for Therrien in '09. Sullivan is showing that.

Sullivan is showing that because he has had the luxury of a goalie who has posted a .928 save percentage over the past two playoff years

 

[SEALBound]

When Staal left I always felt like the Pens could never roll a proper third line.

That was a big blow to the overall team depth. Sutter was decent but was never going to fill those shoes. Penguins prided themselves on depth down the middle but realistically, after Sid and Malkin, we had nothing. Making matters worse, Shero's mantra was "Sid and Geno have to make due with less" ala "we give you Fedetanko and Talbot for wings and you deliver a cup". Bylsma's thoughts about what wings would work were also wack. There was a soul-crushing arrogance that both had. They won in 09...they knew everything...they were never wrong. Boy were they wrong.

Getting back to what you said, though, you are correct. The Penguins also held on to this idea that the lines should be labeled as: Scoring line 1, scoring line 2, shutdown line, gritty vet energy line. Problem was, the shutdown line was meh and teams could afford to focus 100% on the top 6 because after that...there was nothing. Craig Adams, Tanner Glass, and Sutter were not threats to score on you at any time. The bottom 6 contributions from 2010-2015 are putrid.

First off, Bylsma straight up sucked. The Penguins had terrible depth under Shero and up until 2016, when Shero's late round picks started becoming NHLers. Just compare forward groups from today to 2014:

2014:

Kunitz-Crosby-Gibbons
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Bennett-Sutter-Stempniak
Glass-Goc-Adams

Now:

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-Bonino-Rust
Kunitz-Cullen-Wilson

The difference is night and day with those forward groups.

Shero could never find a wing to bring in for Sid. Oddly enough, two minutes after he's in New Jersey, he sends a 2nd to the Ducks for Palmieri. Had he done that in Pittsburgh, he could have maybe kept his job. I have no idea how JR was able to assemble what he has now and how difficult it seemed for Shero to bring in any impact players. Almost had to try to make the roster that bad.

Bylsma and the flyers.

Hopefully we make the playoffs next year and knock them out.

One of my favorite memories was playoffs 2012 where the Flyers went up 3-0 and threw this gigantic party in Philly acting like they had swept the Pens and had won the Cup. I believe a guy even called a beer Crosby tears. The city was flying high...until Game 4...when the Penguins came out and steamrolled the Flyers 10-3.

I cannot think of an event that defines "getting knocked off your high horse" more than that.

 

[powelladam02*]

They weren't the reason the Penguins didn't win the cup, but they were a reason why they probably wouldn't.

The Penguins had a lot of flaws from 2010 to 2015. There were several teams you could probably expect to beat them in a 7game series.

Frankly, the 2009 team wasn't exactly amazing either, far weaker than the 2016 cup winning team.

Last I checked, the thread title asked why the pens didn't win cups. It doesn't ask why the hawks and kings did win cups.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

We were building the team around Fleury, not Crosby-Malkin.

We weren't giving younger players a chance to crack the lineup.

The roster became stale rather quickly.

Too many players got long-term deals based off their 2009 Cup victory.

Crosby and Malkin spent a lot of time on injured reserve, and they did not play at the same time enough.

There were questionable acquisitions made pretty much every season between '10-15.

The coaching was terrible, the system did not take advantage of our team's strengths.

We were somewhat winger-challenged.

Injuries.

Complacency settled in.


All of these things played a role.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Game. Set. Match.

 

[Jets4Life]

Fleury was horrible.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

The Pens' depth is what is winning them Cups now. And if you'll look back on Cup winners since the lockout, you'll find that's the key ingredient among Cup winners that already have the usual culprits (1D, 1C, decent goalie, etc).

 

[WonderTwinsUnite]

2010 - choke
2011 - no Crosby or Malkin in PO's
2012 - lol
2013 - could not match against the Bruins
2014 - beaten by a better Ranger team
2015 - see above

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Coaching.

You have to get the right coach to fit your team, and that's what I think happened in this case.

Just ask Tampa. Jon Cooper has so much firepower at his disposal and yet plays a slow, grindy style.

(and plays Drouin on a shutdown line with Killorn instead of a scoring one with Kucherov)