Why are a lot of goalies "late bloomers"?

[Rapsfan]

Lindqvist, Binnington, Rinne, Tim Thomas to name a few others debuted at like 25 or something. Why do they start their NHL career pretty late overall? Why don't they get more playing time in the NHL? Wouldn't that develop their skill faster?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It's a hard position to predict and project, and it usually requires the most development time. A raw, young forward getting a few minutes a night might not hurt you that much, a raw young goalie who can't make a save can lose you a game.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Lundquist and Rinne are Europeans, and usually players from there have a contract that they have to fulfill before they can sign in the NHL. Tim Thomas played college hockey, then went to Edmonton's training camp in 1998 and didn't make the team because he wasn't good enough to beat out a couple of veterans.

Goalie is mostly mental. If you rush a player they end up doing terrible, and their confidence is shot. Look at Carter Hart this year. He got in a mental funk, and the Flyers weren't able to recover, despite being the best team in their division last year.

Also, goalies are voodoo.

 

[DaveG]

Opportunity in large part, the other part is it can take a bit to develop the mental game.

Look at it this way:
If you're a winger the top 300 or so wings will get a real look in any given season
About the top 225-240 if you're a dman
Top 160 for centers

For goalies, because the position doesn't see players getting long term injuries quite as often, it's more like the top 70 in any given season.

Add in that the previous generations with guys like Thomas breaking in starters were usually playing 70-85% of a teams games. As a result while there were 60 spots for a while, in reality it was closer to the top 40-45 goalies that got any real time and the opportunity to get a real look in net.

A lot of goalies spend years in Europe and the AHL rounding out the mental side if their games as well. So as a result it's a lot more likely for someone to come out of nowhere in their mid -late 20s like Thomas or Bishop than at skater positions like a guy such as Derek Ryan for example. There's also a stigma against smaller guys trying to break in over the past 20 years or so, so a guy like Thomas or Nedeljkovic is really fighting upstream.

 

[jetsforever]

Lundqvist (assuming that's who you meant and not Michael Lindqvist) is not a good example since he debuted at 23 and was already a #1G
Thomas had an unusually late peak and Binnington took a while to make it but those are only 2 players
Rinne is fairly normal
There's only ~64 goalies in the league so it's not as simple to ease into the league at a young age until you're ready

 

[BertCorbeau]

Probably two key reasons:

1. the mentality needed can often take years to develop with the goalie, mental maturity is big.

2. with the position so heavy on technical skills, perfecting those skills takes a lot more time and adjustment at the NHL level.

 

[Huokaus]

Lundquist and Rinne are Europeans, and usually players from there have a contract that they have to fulfill before they can sign in the NHL.

Don't these leagues have transfer agreements with the NHL though, the kind of agreements that allow players to cross the pond whenever a NHL team makes a move for them?

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Don't these leagues have transfer agreements with the NHL though, the kind of agreements that allow players to cross the pond whenever a NHL team makes a move for them?

Sometimes. It has to be signed in to the contract they sign with their European club. Otherwise they're stuck, unless they buy out the rest of the contract.

 

[ThatsSoSlavin]

Minimal opportunities, takes longer to build up mental toughness required for the position, one bad season can kill confidence

 

[txpd]

Offense rewards raw skill. Defense rewards experience. Look at the best defensive players at every position and they overwhelmingly full established players to downright old. As you accumulate experience you increase your ability to read and analyse and react.

Several years ago Olie Kolzig was talking about having played many seasons with the same 6 defensemen. He said that he knew them so well that he knew not only what they were going to do but also knew their weaknesses and knew if they were going to get beaten, how and where it would be. Therefore he was fully prepared for most of the scoring chances when they came. With his new group of defensemen it was not as prepared and was not as ready for chances against when they came.

 

[DL44]

IQ.

Goalies need Experience to build their insticts for reading the play/positioning/percentages/ emotional maturity.

 

[El Travo]

The mental side of the game takes awhile to develop for goalies. Young, athletic goalies are great for the flashy save - but an experienced goalie makes the same save with minimal movement. Look at Price, the guy looks like he can't be bothered to move around but is often right where he needs to be to make the save.

 

[Bondurant]

Quality goalies are talismans. Teams want to keep guys in the pipeline and it may take a few years for a guy to get his shot.

 

[stevo61]

The mental side of the game takes awhile to develop for goalies. Young, athletic goalies are great for the flashy save - but an experienced goalie makes the same save with minimal movement. Look at Price, the guy looks like he can't be bothered to move around but is often right where he needs to be to make the save.

Look at Hasek, Thomas, Bobrovsky, Vasi, etc. Find what works and build on it.
I think one of the biggest things is being strong mentally, its the toughest position to deal with from a mental perspective by a mile.

 

[aufheben]

Goalies are voodoo.

 

[varano]

It takes alot to learn the mental part of the game transitioning to the NHL

 

[jkrdevil]

Only one goalie on a team can play at a time. It isn’t like being a skater where you can start in more of a depth role and still find game time to develop. That more limited opportunity extends the development timeline.

 

[Dog]

Few factors of why this happens and I will discuss it in few sentences. First, the main problem is NHL teams usually already have a go-to goalie so chances are limited starting off. Secondly, the next problem is experience in NHL you will get rookie goalies who possibly played outside of North America on bigger ice rinks. The adjustment alone can break goalies who otherwise put up incredible stats in other leagues. Let's say the goalie is from North America and used to ice rink size the next problem is competition level. High chance coming out of university or even junior leagues where competition level is nowhere close to NHL level. Goalies have to not only adjust their game but need experience. How can they get experience usually by playing in the higher leagues like AHL or others in world(KHL/SEL/Finnish league/ etc.).

 

[Mickey Marner]

The position is 90% mental. Most goalies nowadays are 6'3+ and super athletic. They can all mechanically perform the same tasks with roughly equal efficiency. But determining which guy can allow a bad goal and not get in his own head or come through with a clutch save when your team needs it is difficult. Some goalies perform best when they're constantly relied upon to stay active and face a lot of rubber, while others can maintain focus without constant activity. Your goalie needs to fit your locker room & playstyle and vise versa. A similar relationship would be football and QBs. You can't expect a pocket and scramble QB to have uniform success regardless of the playbook, nor determine who can stay calm & composed during a two-minute drive.

 

[WarriorofTime]

18 year old Goalies are basically at the same point in their development curve as 15 year old forwards. It's a bit of a crapshoot.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

OP forgot to mention what basketball positions tend to be late bloomers.

 

[WarriorofTime]

OP forgot to mention what basketball positions tend to be late bloomers.

None really? You get late bloomers of course like in any sport, but it's not more positionally focused.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

None really? You get late bloomers of course like in any sport, but it's not more positionally focused.

idk, maybe a few name drops then ?

 

[WarriorofTime]

idk, maybe a few name drops then ?

Pascal Siakam, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman

 

[93LEAFS]

18 year old Goalies are basically at the same point in their development curve as 15 year old forwards. It's a bit of a crapshoot.

I've said this for awhile. Forwards at 17/18, is equivalent to D at 20, and goalies at like 22/23. Forwards have a much easier time imposing their will on the game forcing other players to be reactive to them. D and especially goalies are reactive, so it is way more of an adjustment to go up skill levels. For D, something that may be a small IQ or positioning issue in the OHL that you can cover up with speed and strength could easily end up being a crippling flaw when you jump up to the NHL.