Whose 894 will be better?

[MadLuke]

But if someone thinks adjusted stats are misleading (more so than raw stats), then I’m not real sure what the rational basis would be.

A bit like save percentage being worst than point or plus-minus, people overrating how good they are. On an history forum no one take points scored in 1987 vs 1952 or 2002 at raw value.

Better but more dangerous

 

[The Panther]

To my way of thinking, Stastny is nowhere near the Ovechkin/Crosby ballpark.

"Nowhere near" seems too strong. What Ovechkin and Crosby clearly have over Stastny is that they started NHL at younger ages and they both have had terrific longevity. Peak-wise, the three are not tremendously different. If we remove Gretzky from the equation (but keep Mario):
Scoring finishes:
1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5
1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 7, 8
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5

So, which is which? Stastny is the last one, but clearly if he had started in the NHL at 18 instead of 24 we'd probably be adding on a couple more top-five finishes (and a couple of those finishes would be higher if we also removed Lemieux).

Crosby and Ovechkin deservedly rank higher, but Stastny, in a non-Gretzky world, might today be remembered as the top NHL player of the whole 1980s' decade.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby and Ovechkin deservedly rank higher, but Stastny, in a non-Gretzky world, might today be remembered as the top NHL player of the whole 1980s' decade.

Then take it up with the forum regulars - who rated 13 players born within 11 years of Stastny ahead of Stastny - in both directions (from 1945 to 1967 - Stastny was born in 1956). A total of 25 players born within 11 years, all better than Stastny, and among the top 100 players in 120 years of hockey.

I realize this is not an easy exclusion. There is already an excessive amount of players from the high scoring era, and an obvious deficiency from the lower scoring modern era (a paltry 6 players from the Ovechkin/Crosby era despite the talent pool being demonstrably larger than any provious era).

 

[The Panther]

Then take it up with the forum regulars - who rated 13 players born within 11 years of Stastny ahead of Stastny - in both directions (from 1945 to 1967 - Stastny was born in 1956). A total of 25 players born within 11 years, all better than Stastny, and among the top 100 players in 120 years of hockey.

There is nothing to "take up". I already stated that Crosby and Ovechkin are clearly ahead of Stastny.

I am saying that the gap isn't as large as you seem to think. My point of comparison is the respective players at their best, not career longevity and related accomplishments. (What the forum regulars collectively think is not relevant to my opinion, btw.)

 

[VanIslander]

The least of Gretzky's skills was his shots on goal.

Yet here we are wondering if he was the best or 2nd best ever goal scorer.

A testament to his talents.

Note: does anyone think Gretzky wouldn't have easily 1000+ goals if he didn't almost always look for the pass first?

Imagine a bit more goal-hungry Gretzky, i mean, not an OV level obsession, just a more to the mean level of shots taken.

When in scoring position, Gretz still looked to pass.

(What HO identified as the specialization argument is clearly applicable.)

 

[MadLuke]

Note: does anyone think Gretzky wouldn't have easily 1000+ goals if he didn't almost always look for the pass first?

I think a good example of that is Gretzky powerplay scoring vs even strength and shorthanded.

On EV-SH, things happen, chaotic, maybe there is no one to pass it to right now, but Gretzky strong skating, anticipation, will, quickness he create a shot for himself. even more in SH situation.

On the power play there is always a good pass play possible, he can go behind the net and remove his shots becoming a pure quaterback, etc.... And a lot of shot are a decision over passing it in that scenario and vice-versa.

From 82 to 87 Gretzky scored 105 more goals than Bossy but they scored about exactly the same amount on the powerplay (88 to 85) or Dionne (84). Gretzky did not even lead the league in power play goal, Kerr, Goulet, Ciccarelli scored more.

We can imagine that unlike the other situation, big power play player ice time was more similar to Wayne as well.