Who's The Fifth Greatest Player Ever (As of Summer of 2024)?

[x Tame Impala]

McDavid is more talented but Crosby has had a greater career. Tough call

 

[jigglysquishy]

1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Beliveau
6. Harvey
7. Crosby
8. McDavid
9. Hull
10. Bourque
11. Hasek
12. Jagr
13. Ovechkin
14. Roy
15. Shore
16. Richard
17. Morenz
18. Lidstrom
19. Plante
20. Nighbor
21. Lafleur
22. Potvin
23. Fetisov
24. Kelly
25. Messier
26. Esposito
27. Brodeur
28. Makarov
29. Mikita
30. Hall
31. Cook
32. Taylor
33. Sakic
34. Clarke
35. Sawchuk
36. Chelios
37. Trottier
38. Robinson
39. Boucher
40. Clancy
41. Bossy
42. Kharlamov
43. Tretiak
44. Dryden
45. Lalonde
46. Park
47. Yzerman
48. Lindsay
49. Cleghorn
50. Apps

 

[bobbyking]

not crosby because mcdavid >crosby

 

[crowfish]

McDavid has been 5th since his historic 2022 regular season, that season was too good, and too unlike anything Crosby ever showed he was capable of to have Crosby ranked above. It was also the season where he officially passed Crosby in MVPs won.

2023 was an interesting one for McDavid's legacy. Not winning Art Ross #6 or MVP #4 hurt him a bit, but it can be excused by injury. The playoff run was certainly a net positive for his legacy. Gretzky lost twice in the finals without winning a Conn Smythe. Crosby has played in the finals 4 times and never came close to breaking any Gretzky records, or even matching McDavids 11-point finals performance. Despite his legacy going up overall, it was still a huge opportunity missed in game 7. If he has a big game and they pull off that comeback we would be talking about him as #2 alltime.

 

[T REX]

esposito?

 

[Crow]

Hasek for me. McDavid someday though seems likely. Crosby didn’t do enough to unseat hasek in my eyes and I don’t think he will at this point.

 

[wetcoast]

1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Beliveau
6. Harvey
7. Crosby
8. McDavid
9. Hull
10. Bourque
11. Hasek
12. Jagr
13. Ovechkin
14. Roy
15. Shore
16. Richard
17. Morenz
18. Lidstrom
19. Plante
20. Nighbor
21. Lafleur
22. Potvin
23. Fetisov
24. Kelly
25. Messier
26. Esposito
27. Brodeur
28. Makarov
29. Mikita
30. Hall
31. Cook
32. Taylor
33. Sakic
34. Clarke
35. Sawchuk
36. Chelios
37. Trottier
38. Robinson
39. Boucher
40. Clancy
41. Bossy
42. Kharlamov
43. Tretiak
44. Dryden
45. Lalonde
46. Park
47. Yzerman
48. Lindsay
49. Cleghorn
50. Apps

Decent list although I would quibble with a couple of placements but for me there is a clear top 3 and then after that everyone's list is a little bit different.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Crosby for now, but McDavid is likely going to overtake that spot

Honestly, he could also dethrone Gordie Howe too IMO

 

[Nadal On Clay]

It’s Crosby still. Like it or not. The guy won everything at every single level. His only weakness is that he got unlucky with injuries.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

It's between Hull, Roy, Crosby, and McDavid for me personally.

Bobby Hull - 10x 1AST, 7x Richard Winner, 3 Rosses and a bunch of top 3 Hart finishes, Top 5 Goalscorer of all time

Patrick Roy - 3 Smythes (2, if not 3, top 5 smythe performances of all time), 3 vezinas (7 top 3 finishes), a comparable peak to Hasek, Incredible longevity (finished 3rd in hart voting at 36 and top 5 in vezina voting at 37 in his final season), 2nd most clutch player of all time

Sidney Crosby - 8 top 2 AST finishes, Incredibly high floor/consistency (100 points in rookie year at 18, 90+ points at 36 with no dropoff in between), tier 3 peak (arguably tier 2 if not for injuries), versatile/adaptable (a few decent selke finishes, 1 top 5 finish),

Connor McDavid - 5 Rosses, 3 Harts, 4 Lindsays, 7 Top 2 AST finishes, 1 Conn Smythe, Top 5 peak (if not 4th) of all time, tier 1/2 playoff performer, only thing stopping him from being decisively top 5 is a few more top tier seasons and a little more hardware

Crosby has the most well rounded argument which makes him an easy choice for many.
McDavid has the most convincing argument based on the eye test/accomplishments.
Roy's argument is very dependent on his playoff resume, but if you value that most, his argument may be the strongest.
Hull was extremely dominant and consistent like Crosby, but leaving to the WHA hurt his claim a good bit.

Going to be a bit biased and take Roy. He may be the only one out of these 4 with no Hart trophies, but I don't think any of these 4 would've won a Hart if their peaks overlapped with the competition he had. McDavid's all but guaranteed to take the #5 spot very soon though.

I'd take Hasek over Roy

 

[wetcoast]

It’s Crosby still. Like it or not. The guy won everything at every single level. His only weakness is that he got unlucky with injuries.

His SC finals counting stats are also not a strength but it's a small game sample and he has the rest of his resume which mitigates that monir point to a large degree.

After all one of the Big 4, Gordie Howe, had his team win a SC the season he played only a single period in the playoffs.

Bobby Orr had a postseason in his prime where he wasn't his usual elite self.

 

[crowfish]

I think most are just voting Crosby because it is the safer feeling option, plus it is hard to wrap your head around McDavid only being in the league since 2015 and already surpassing him.

If Bedard has surpassed McDavid by his 9th season that would be rather shocking, which is essentially what has happened with McDavid vs Crosby.

 

[Video Nasty]

I think most are just voting Crosby because it is the safer feeling option, plus it is hard to wrap your head around McDavid only being in the league since 2015 and already surpassing him.

If Bedard has surpassed McDavid by his 9th season that would be rather shocking, which is essentially what has happened with McDavid vs Crosby.

Crosby was a bit easier to surpass though, considering his individual trophy cabinet is more sparse than it should be, both due to injuries and also simply not being good enough.

What McDavid has done up to this point makes it unlikely a player comes along who accomplishes more for at least the next forty years.

I agree though. Some people can’t handle their childhood toys being thrown away.

 

[some]

Jagr

 

[some]

Who is the fifth, tenth or fifteenth best European NHL player ever out of five, ten or fifteen NHL Europeans from the 1960s onwards?

1 Jagr
2 Hasek
3 Ovechkin
4 Lundqvist
5 Selänne
6 Kurri
7 P.Forsberg
8 Lidström
9 Salming
10 Lehtinen

The right answer for the experts.

Also Europeans play and watch hockey.

 

[DitchMarner]

Who is the fifth, tenth or fifteenth best European NHL player ever out of five, ten or fifteen NHL Europeans from the 1960s onwards?

1 Jagr
2 Hasek
3 Ovechkin
4 Lundqvist
5 Selänne
6 Kurri
7 P.Forsberg
8 Lidström
9 Salming
10 Lehtinen

The right answer for the experts.

Also Europeans play and watch hockey.

Kurri is not better than Forsberg and certainly isn't better than Lidstrom.

 

[some]

Kurri is not better than Forsberg and certainly isn't better than Lidstrom.

Kurri scores 600+ goals.

 

[DitchMarner]

Kurri scores 600+ goals.

Yeah, playing with some guy named Wayne Gretzky during his prime. He also had his prime in the highest scoring era ever.

Don't get me wrong: He was a hell of a player. Great two-way player as well.

But Lidstrom won seven Norris Trophies. You can make a poll comparing Kurri, Lidstrom and Forsberg if you want. I can guarantee the latter two will receive more votes than Kurri.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

If Bossy would have played longer he might have been in the conversation for #5.

On the opposite end are players like Jagr, Messier and Brett Hull who hung around past their primes.

 

[Ratbath]

Probably will eventually be mcdavid but if they both retired today it’s easily crosby

 

[blundluntman]

I'd take Hasek over Roy

Can't say I'd blame you, they're pretty much interchangeable IMO. Roy for me is slightly better bc of his post-season resume coupled with a peak in the early 90s that's arguably just as good as Hasek's statistically when you factor in scoring levels

 

[Boreal01]

Doug Harvey

 

[Video Nasty]

Bobby Hull’s stock has really fallen over the past few years. I feel like he was the usual top suspect for the #5 spot as little as a few years ago; now he has no votes out of 166, lol.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Bobby Hull’s stock has really fallen over the past few years. I feel like he was the usual top suspect for the #5 spot as little as a few years ago; now he has no votes out of 166, lol.

You're posting on a subforum that is actively hostile to pre 1990 hockey. It's like being surprised vegetarians don't know anything about steak cuts.

 

[Video Nasty]

You're posting on a subforum that is actively hostile to pre 1990 hockey. It's like being surprised vegetarians don't know anything about steak cuts.

Do you think it’s possible the HoH sub overcompensates a little in retaliation for this behavior?