Who's More Impressive To You: 2024-2025 Ovechkin Or Recent Crosby?

[DitchMarner]

There hasn't been a good old Crosby/Ovechkin poll in a while. Crosby dominated last season, but Ovechkin is having his best and most impressive season in a while. How impressive has he been relative to recent Crosby?

Keep in mind that impressive doesn't necessarily mean better. It's highly subjective.

You can consider lack of team support, age, overcoming injuries, apparent value to team etc.

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[CascadiaPuck]

What?

 

[DitchMarner]

What?

It's a poll asking if Ovechkin has been more impressive to voters than Crosby from one, two or three of the last three seasons Crosby has had.

 

[Dallas Winston]

Always crosby

 

[WarriorofTime]

The last time Crosby had a top 10 point, goal or assist finish was 10th in points in the abridged 2020-21 season. He hasn't had any team success in a while either. 2018-19 (age 31) was his last season where he was really "great". There's really nothing overly standout about his late career other than just consistency.

 

[nowhereman]

What Ovechkin is doing this year is other-worldly, so my vote goes to him this year. The previous two seasons have been a very clear edge to Sid.

The last time Crosby had a top 10 point, goal or assist finish was 10th in points in the abridged 2020-21 season. He hasn't had any team success in a while either. 2018-19 (age 31) was his last season where he was really "great". There's really nothing overly standout about his late career other than just consistency.

The guy has been a top 10 scoring in points over the last 3 season combined. That is very impressive for a guy in his mid-to-late 30s. Similar PPG to Gretzky at the same age, albeit in a higher scoring era.

 

[Regal]

Ovechkin is rocking an insane 107PDO at 5v5 this year with a 45% xGF%. I’d give him the edge this year as you still have to score the goals but I don’t think he’s as good as Crosby was last year or the year before. Granted Crosby was giving up a ton defensively, but he was also one of the best 5v5 scorers. Impressive is subjective, but I think Crosby was definitely a better player.

 

[wetcoast]

There hasn't been a good old Crosby/Ovechkin poll in a while. Crosby dominated last season, but Ovechkin is having his best and most impressive season in a while. How impressive has he been relative to recent Crosby?

Keep in mind that impressive doesn't necessarily mean better. It's highly subjective.

You can consider lack of team support, age, overcoming injuries, apparent value to team etc.

I'm just wondering if this poll stems from this original assertion as your terms above are quite different.

Personally, I find what Ovechkin is doing this season more impressive than anything Crosby's done recently (since like 2021 - maybe earlier).

Yeah, Crosby's had some nice ~90 point seasons on a subpar Penguins team that hasn't been quite good enough for the playoffs, but he's not the all around player he used to be. His defensive play/impact has tanked in recent years. So there's not too much more that he's providing other than offense (well, and a good possession game and leadership).

I'm not pretending Ovechkin is the force he was in the late 2000s or a Mark Stone-esque two-way winger, but he's showing tremendous heart and resilience and seems to be a really good veteran presence and leader at this point. He's also showing that he can integrate his skills well into a system that benefits both himself and his team (something that he was criticized - perhaps unfairly - for not being able to do in the past).

He's been an important contributor to the best team in the East and the Capitals have a better record with him in the line-up than without this year (and the sample size of missed games is considerable). I find all of this more impressive than making some crappy team that would be 13th or so a 9th or 10th placed team (although the bottom really seems to be falling out this year for PIT)

Ovechkin is rocking an insane 107PDO at 5v5 this year with a 45% xGF%. I’d give him the edge this year as you still have to score the goals but I don’t think he’s as good as Crosby was last year or the year before. Granted Crosby was giving up a ton defensively, but he was also one of the best 5v5 scorers. Impressive is subjective, but I think Crosby was definitely a better player.

I just wonder if at any time this season you could have Ovi in a vacuum, (or any point in last 3 for Crosby)in a hypothetical you can have one guy if people are really looking past the counting stats here?

Somehow I doubt it.

 

[DitchMarner]

I'm just wondering if this poll stems from this original assertion as your terms above are quite different.











I just wonder if at any time this season you could have Ovi in a vacuum, (or any point in last 3 for Crosby)in a hypothetical you can have one guy if people are really looking past the counting stats here?

Somehow I doubt it.

What exactly is the difference?

The operative word is the word impressive, which should not be conflated with better. I stated that I found Ovechkin more impressive this season than Crosby in recent seasons and you seemed to take issue with that, as if the opinion is outrageous. I don't find it surprising that this isn't exactly a minority opinion or a hot take.

 

[DitchMarner]

Ovechkin is rocking an insane 107PDO at 5v5 this year with a 45% xGF%. I’d give him the edge this year as you still have to score the goals but I don’t think he’s as good as Crosby was last year or the year before. Granted Crosby was giving up a ton defensively, but he was also one of the best 5v5 scorers. Impressive is subjective, but I think Crosby was definitely a better player.

I think people like wetcoast are having a difficult time trying to reconcile on-ice results with perceived ability, and while luck can be a factor when it comes to scoring goals, I think it can be too dismissive and reductionist to just say that because a player is shooting at a very high rate, he's simply getting lucky.

Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer of all-time. He's an outlier when it comes to goal scoring. There's a reason he has nine scoring titles, will soon hold the goals record and has 200+ goals in three different decades. He fundamentally excels at scoring goals, and I think some mischaracterize him as an entirely toolsy player who isn't very adaptable. But I think if you've proven to be that proficient at goal scoring over such a lengthy period of time and you've changed your approach more than once, there's more to your game than just physical tools and shooting ability. He can adapt.

At this time, he seems to have changed his approach from being a volume shooter (which he has traditionally been) to be being an efficiency shooter. When he was shooting a ton and getting his ~50 goals, some would criticize him for "shooting too much" and allude to his accuracy not being as good as that of some of the other great goal scorers. But when he scores a lot without shooting a ton, it's PDO.

PDO is a factor to an extent, but I think he's taking advantage of a system that emphasizes scoring chance quality over volume and he deserves credit for that. A lot of scoring wingers aren't great defensively; some get more exposed for it than others do. Obviously he has had very good goaltending and has a strong blue line behind him to help his GA numbers. But I think the fact that wingers can be sheltered effectively highlights that winger defense isn't that inherently important (at least in comparison to the primary responsibilities of wingers). You can design systems and delegate responsibilities in ways that make it so that the defensive play of your star offensive wingers doesn't really hurt your team (think of all the success guys like Kane and Kucherov have had on well-coached teams).

Crosby's overall on-ice results were generally better than Ovechkin's for a number of years. Now that they really aren't, you have to wonder how much systems, usage, teammate support etc play into things. But then again, to fully take advantage of being on a strong team, Ovechkin has to integrate into his team and system in a way that maximizes his capabilities. This is a guy who has been called too individualistic in the past and accused of not doing what's best for his team (not that I necessarily agree personally). He seems devoted to playing winning hockey while chasing the record.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I guess you can say Ovechkin has been more 'impressive' in the sense that he's having the best goal scoring season at his age ever.

But Crosby remains the much better player.

 

[wetcoast]

What exactly is the difference?

The operative word is the word impressive, which should not be conflated with better. I stated that I found Ovechkin more impressive this season than Crosby in recent seasons and you seemed to take issue with that, as if the opinion is outrageous. I don't find it surprising that this isn't exactly a minority opinion or a hot take.

The problem was that you introduced 2 way game and other stuff in your original comment then totally disregard it.

As I said Ovi's year "looks" more impressive but when actually look at the context it certainly isn't.

But you framed this poll question entirely differently than you quote from the other thread and your victory lap here is premature.

You see I do this weird thing when i hear any statement about any player, I ask does it hold up?

What is the context but instead you are simply looking at counting stats and then concluding that it shows something definitive when it doesn't.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

it doesnt matter which you choose, Crosby is the better player but that doesnt mean what OV is doing right now isnt impressive as hell. he's a great player but even passing Gretzky wasnt going to just magically make him better than Crosby

 

[Dallas Winston]

Just watch the games and you will have your answer.

 

[DitchMarner]

The problem was that you introduced 2 way game and other stuff in your original comment then totally disregard it.

As I said Ovi's year "looks" more impressive but when actually look at the context it certainly isn't.

But you framed this poll question entirely differently than you quote from the other thread and your victory lap here is premature.

You see I do this weird thing when i hear any statement about any player, I ask does it hold up?

What is the context but instead you are simply looking at counting stats and then concluding that it shows something definitive when it doesn't.

My point is simply that I personally find Ovechkin more impressive as of late all things considered. That includes age, the way he's bounced back from the injury, his goal scoring output for his age etc. The fact that Crosby has regressed defensively factors into that for me. That's not to say I think Ovechkin is better defensively. I don't think either guy is being used much for defense at this point.

You can argue about how the players would do in other situations, but they play in the situations they play in. I think Ovechkin is better for WSH than Crosby would be. The Capitals are deep at centre. On my team, I'd consider having him instead of Crosby, but I don't know which would be better. Having Crosby would push Tavares to 3C and make TOR loaded down the middle, but having Ovechkin on TOR might open up more opportunities for Matthews and give Marner and Nylander more space. I don't think Ovechkin would be better for PIT than Crosby, but I don't really know what the hell is Dubas is doing, either.

Counting stats win games. If a guy can continually score goals at a high clip and his team maximizes his strengths and insulates his weaknesses, that team is going to have success (like WSH is doing).

 

[wetcoast]

My point is simply that I personally find Ovechkin more impressive as of late all things considered. That includes age, the way he's bounced back from the injury, his goal scoring output for his age etc. The fact that Crosby has regressed defensively factors into that for me. That's not to say I think Ovechkin is better defensively. I don't think either guy is being used much for defense at this point.

You are really underselling the difference here in actual play.

Crosby provides a lot still with a 200 foot game and faceoffs aside from counting stats, Ovi floats a lot out there and scores goal not much else that he brings to the table.

Even on the PP his totals given his PP TOI are underwelming the ENG and usage and PDO are showing a perfect storm for stats, his actual play isn't even clsoe to crosby.

Put it another way no one would be taking Ovie as a player this season over Crosby as a player in any of the last 3 seasons.

Ovi's stats might look more impressive but that's only if one only looks at counting stats and doesn't do a deeper dive.

You can argue about how the players would do in other situations, but they play in the situations they play in. I think Ovechkin is better for WSH than Crosby would be. The Capitals are deep at centre. On my team, I'd consider having him instead of Crosby, but I don't know which would be better. Having Crosby would push Tavares to 3C and make TOR loaded down the middle, but having Ovechkin on TOR might open up more opportunities for Matthews and give Marner and Nylander more space. I don't think Ovechkin would be better for PIT than Crosby, but I don't really know what the hell is Dubas is doing, either.

I totally disagree with you ehre, we saw Crosby at the 4 nations, Ovi simply isn't that player any more and there is no shame in that he is 39.

Counting stats win games. If a guy can continually score goals at a high clip and his team maximizes his strengths and insulates his weaknesses, that team is going to have success (like WSH is doing).

If you are insulating weakness for one player how can he be more impressive?

 

[authentic]

What Ovechkin is doing this year is other-worldly, so my vote goes to him this year. The previous two seasons have been a very clear edge to Sid.


The guy has been a top 10 scoring in points over the last 3 season combined. That is very impressive for a guy in his mid-to-late 30s. Similar PPG to Gretzky at the same age, albeit in a higher scoring era.

I think they showed that Crosby was top 5 in ES points this season, which is amazing for his age. Has to be Ovechkin though for this season of course. Although I agree with the post above that most teams would take Crosby on their team as an overall player over Ovechkin right now, as would I.

 

[DitchMarner]

You are really underselling the difference here in actual play.

Crosby provides a lot still with a 200 foot game and faceoffs aside from counting stats, Ovi floats a lot out there and scores goal not much else that he brings to the table.

Even on the PP his totals given his PP TOI are underwelming the ENG and usage and PDO are showing a perfect storm for stats, his actual play isn't even clsoe to crosby.

Put it another way no one would be taking Ovie as a player this season over Crosby as a player in any of the last 3 seasons.

Ovi's stats might look more impressive but that's only if one only looks at counting stats and doesn't do a deeper dive.



I totally disagree with you ehre, we saw Crosby at the 4 nations, Ovi simply isn't that player any more and there is no shame in that he is 39.



If you are insulating weakness for one player how can he be more impressive?

The purpose of hockey isn't to win board battles, block shots and grind. Those are means to an end. The purpose is to outscore the opposition. There's a reason a guy like Brett Hull is significantly more important and valuable than a player like Zach Hyman even though Hyman does a lot of things Hull didn't do.

Ovechkin's goal scoring is at his age is highly impressive and unprecedented regardless of how he does it and what else he does and doesn't do.

I think you're also underselling how well he was playing before the injury. I believe he was leading the League in points per 60 among players with at least five games played. To be doing that at 39 on a strong team is highly impressive. To return from a broken leg and still be on pace for more than 50 goals is highly impressive.

He's 39 and still excelling at what he's great at. Meanwhile Crosby is 37 and no longer capable of carrying the type of load he used to be able to shoulder. Ovechkin's team is supporting him well and Crosby's team obviously needs to support him better.

What is impressive to you may differ from what is impressive to me. It's my opinion.

 

[wetcoast]

The purpose of hockey isn't to win board battles, block shots and grind. Those are means to an end. The purpose is to outscore the opposition. There's a reason a guy like Brett Hull is significantly more important and valuable than a player like Zach Hyman even though Hyman does a lot of things Hull didn't do.

Ovechkin's goal scoring is at his age is highly impressive and unprecedented regardless of how he does it and what else he does and doesn't do.

I think you're also underselling how well he was playing before the injury. I believe he was leading the League in points per 60 among players with at least five games played. To be doing that at 39 on a strong team is highly impressive. To return from a broken leg and still be on pace for more than 50 goals is highly impressive.

He's 39 and still excelling at what he's great at. Meanwhile Crosby is 37 and no longer capable of carrying the type of load he used to be shoulder. Ovechkin's team is supporting him well and Crosby's team obviously needs to support him better.

What is impressive to you may differ from what is impressive to me. It's my opinion.

This is your OP and I also asked from your original quote in the other thread.

If you had simply asked which looks more impressive that would be one thing but then you go and talk about other stuff for one guy then 100% discount it for Crosby.

Completely disingenuous or obtuse.

There hasn't been a good old Crosby/Ovechkin poll in a while. Crosby dominated last season, but Ovechkin is having his best and most impressive season in a while. How impressive has he been relative to recent Crosby?

Keep in mind that impressive doesn't necessarily mean better. It's highly subjective.

To the 2 parts in bold which one is it exactly?

That's the problem with your framing and leading direction of your question and serious polling doesn't work that way.

You can consider lack of team support, age, overcoming injuries, apparent value to team etc.