Who would you take - Erik Karlsson vs Kris Letang?

[biturbo19]

Between these two RH shooting Penguin Defencemen...age, contract, performance considered...which of the two would you rather have on your team?


Erik Karlsson (34): 3 Years x $9.999999999 repeating. We'll be generous and include the retention work the San Jose Sharks should be recognized for.

Kris Letang (37) : 4 Years x $6.1M.

Click to read more...

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Letang because he might LTIRetire first

 

[Shark Finn]

I'd probably take any defenceman with puck-moving ability to the Sharks at this point

 

[ijuka]

I'd easily take Karlsson. In the right situation, he could still be great. Letang is, well. His potential is nowhere near as high. And he's not exactly steady or stable himself. I feel like Letang's reputation is perhaps a bit inflated due to spending his entire career with Malkin and Crosby.

 

[Hisch13r]

I'd never want to see Letang play anywhere else.

 

[Coffee]

Karlsson is horrible and even the biggest penguins homers @SomeDude and @Empoleon8771 will tell you the same thing

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

EK because i've always loved the idea of Doughty playing shutdown and Karlsson going cleanup and yet having them both out when down by a goal

who cares if it's a 22 million dollar + pairing and they're geriatrics now

Also 3 years isn't nothing at that age, you're more likely to get a little bounceback from EK than you are from Letang. 37 is when guys crash hard, often.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Letang because he’ll retire sooner

 

[joestevens29]

Letang his wife isn’t a high maintenance bitch

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Letang doesn’t hurt a team as much.

 

[biturbo19]

Letang his wife isn’t a high maintenance bitch

Bonus to this poll...

We found Mike Hoffman's wife's Burner hfboards account.

I'd never want to see Letang play anywhere else.

This is actually a fair consideration. I think it'd be pretty swell to see Sid-Geno-Letang all retire as career Penguins. And i'm certainly not even a Penguin fan. I just think that kind of story is sweet and ultimately good for the game.

 

[Miro4Norris]

As a Pens fan, I'll take the guy who is NHL level player.. Letang AINEC Karlsson's defense is by far the worst i've ever seen in my life.. and i'm watching Finnish Liiga as well.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think this has to be Letang due to his lower AAV. Regardless of how you want to argue Letang vs Karlsson, Karlsson is factually not worth $3.9 million more than Letang.

Both have gross contracts though, that 4 years of term left on Letang's deal is ugly. Karlsson's AAV is obviously gross but Letang's term is also gross.

 

[SomeDude]

 

[norrisnick]

Gun to my head?


I take the bullet....

 

[Xspyrit]

I'd probably take any defenceman with puck-moving ability to the Sharks at this point

Why the hell did the Sharks not claim Erik Brannstrom when he went through waivers? He'd be one of your best 2-way D-men

Karlsson is horrible and even the biggest penguins homers @SomeDude and @Empoleon8771 will tell you the same thing

Most ES points among D-men the last 2 seasons combined and among 271 D-men with at least 500 ES minutes :

11th in CF/60, 30th in CF%
12th in SF/60, 41st in SF%
16th in GF/60, 147th in GF% (bad teams)
11th in xGF/60, 112 in xGF%

Still pretty elite in a lot of areas

 

[biturbo19]

Why the hell did the Sharks not claim Erik Brannstrom when he went through waivers? He'd be one of your best 2-way D-men



Most ES points among D-men the last 2 seasons combined and among 271 D-men with at least 500 ES minutes :

11th in CF/60, 30th in CF%
12th in SF/60, 41st in SF%
16th in GF/60, 147th in GF% (bad teams)
11th in xGF/60, 112 in xGF%

Still pretty elite in a lot of areas

View attachment 923425

Why two years?

Ya'll got the JFresh graphic for 3 years? Or just 1 year? Or current year only?


*edit. Seeing that is just the graphic for last year only. And well, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Are those WAR percentiles hedged over multiple years as per normal with JFresh? Because it's hard to see anyone from that Penguin powerplay being 97% WAR on Powerplay effectiveness last year. They had literally...one of the worst three powerplays in the league last year.

But his defensive metrics check out there. Though i think that part is probably true whether it's a 1 year sample last year, or multiple years.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I wouldn't want either guy anywhere near being responsible for preventing goals against, so this is all about avoiding a cap hit IMO. So Letang because lower AAV and lower overall cap commitment.

Seriously though, between those two guys, some of their defensive lowlights are shockingly bad. Sometimes I watch Karlsson's efforts in his own end and I don't understand why he isn't being utterly chewed out by his coaches or his teammates. It's that bad.

 

[Midnight Judges]

*edit. Seeing that is just the graphic for last year only. And well, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Are those WAR percentiles hedged over multiple years as per normal with JFresh? Because it's hard to see anyone from that Penguin powerplay being 97% WAR on Powerplay effectiveness last year. They had literally...one of the worst three powerplays in the league last year.

I don't think these people have worked the kinks out, or at the very least there are outlier instances where these so-called advanced stats are invalidated on an individual basis.

I think you have demonstrated that here. The Pens were 30th in PP percentage, and not particularly close to 29th. Karlsson led the Pens in PP time on ice per game. So I'm having a pretty hard time imagining him to be in the 97th percentile of PP effectiveness as a player given the overall result. I really am curious, what exactly is he doing that is dazzling the advanced metrics?

I had another guy show me through advanced stats that Ovechkin was a significantly better player in 2016 than he was in 2009. That is not plausible.

 

[Xspyrit]

Why two years?

Because the 2 most recent seasons is the most efficient/smartest way to evaluate a player today? 1 season is not enough, 3 seasons is too long and that 3rd season might not be relevant anymore.

Ya'll got the JFresh graphic for 3 years? Or just 1 year? Or current year only?
*edit. Seeing that is just the graphic for last year only. And well, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Are those WAR percentiles hedged over multiple years as per normal with JFresh? Because it's hard to see anyone from that Penguin powerplay being 97% WAR on Powerplay effectiveness last year. They had literally...one of the worst three powerplays in the league last year.

But his defensive metrics check out there. Though i think that part is probably true whether it's a 1 year sample last year, or multiple years.

Why don't you do some research to find out how these things are calculated? No, it is not simply goals scored. I feel bad and think I need to give you a hint : Karlsson was 5th among D in xGF/60 on the PP (behind Fox, Bouchard, Faber, OEL)

There's even a warning in JFresh index that xGoal models are not as reliable on special teams. Personally, I mostly look at EV offense and defense anyway.

And yes, his EV def War has been like that for years now but his EV of War is at the opposite of the spectrum, Karlsson obviously plays high event hockey. He will struggle with basic defensive stuff like boxing out the front of the net but he is elite in other parts of defense (like exit possession) that frankly, a lot of fans have not even begun to understand... I'll leave it at that and wait for time to do its work.

 

[Machinehead]

It would be an awkward fit because the Rangers really need a LHD, and have one of the very few guys I'd play over both on the powerplay as a defenseman.

I think you have to go with Karlsson. I would seriously run Karlsson-Fox. Why not?

 

[JaegerDice]

They're both flawed d-men hobbled by injuries, but at the very least Karlsson is good to go off for a ton of points every few years.

 

[Kegs]

Between these two RH shooting Penguin Defencemen...age, contract, performance considered...which of the two would you rather have on your team?


Erik Karlsson (34): 3 Years x $9.999999999 repeating. We'll be generous and include the retention work the San Jose Sharks should be recognized for.

Kris Letang (37) : 4 Years x $6.1M.

I don’t think these contracts are going to be easy to move tbh.