Who would the Kings protect in an expansion draft?

[Ron*]

I can see why Andreoff got a few votes to be protected because he is the total package but who in the heck voted for Andrew Crescenzi?

I'd like to know who in their right minds would protect Moller, Schultz, and Crescenzi...

I'm protecting everybody on that list.

And I haven't been in my right mind for a while now.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Picking anyone over Brown would be for salary cap reasons. One of Lewis/Clifford will have to be left unprotected (assuming Shore is going to fit in our long term plans) and people will be torn between them. They both bring solid effort, Lewis on the defensive end and Clifford in the physical end.

Bingo. You leave him unprotected hoping that Vegas would take him to get a name their fans would know (given that whatever hockey fans there are in Vegas are/were Kings fans).

Picking anyone over Brown would be for salary cap reasons. One of Lewis/Clifford will have to be left unprotected (assuming Shore is going to fit in our long term plans) and people will be torn between them. They both bring solid effort, Lewis on the defensive end and Clifford in the physical end.

By the time this actually happens, Lewis could be gone given that he is a UFA next summer.

 

[The Night King]

I like Brown and appreciate what he's done, but we already passed on a chance to rid ourselves of one huge contract of a declining player without giving up assets. I wouldn't want DL to make that mistake again.

 

[kovacro]

And I haven't been in my right mind for a while now.

Ron, correct me if I am wrong, but you have witnessed every NHL expansion. You may just be the only one here to do so. Do you remember anything about the initial expansion draft or were you just too young to recall?

I bet no one did a mock expansion draft back in 1967.

 

[kingsfan]

I always feel the need to point out that the expansion draft rules would probably be tweaked for the next round to reflect the changes since 2000 (namely UFA at age 27). Each round of expansion in the 90s ended up having different rules; Phil Esposito was pissed that the Ducks/Panthers got much more favorable rules than Tampa/Ottawa had gotten the previous year.

Personally wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being 8 forwards, 4 D, and a goalie since so many more guys are UFA nowadays and wouldn't need a protection spot.

-------------------

But for fun, if there was a hypothetical expansion draft next offseason + Lucic/Kopitar signed extensions:

1. Kopitar
2. Lucic
3. Gaborik
4. Pearson
5. Carter
6. Toffoli
7. Shore
8. Clifford
-----------
9. King (UFA after 2016-17)

Available: Lewis (UFA), Nolan, Andreoff, Weal

1. Doughty
2. Muzzin
3. Martinez
4. Voynov?
------------
5. McNabb
6. Greene
7. Forbort

1. Quick

Available: Greene, McNabb, Forbort, Enroth

-------------------

Naturally there would be some moves that could be arranged before the draft. Lombardi would like trade a D rather than lose one for nothing.

And there is some strategy involved. With past expansion drafts, you weren't allowed to lose either: Goalie and a defenseman, or two defensemen. In past expansion drafts, they made the teams pick in phases by position: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NHL_Expansion_Draft

Ie, the teams would draft goalies first, then D, then forwards. So there could be some side deals to be had. In 1998, the Kings gave Kimmo Timonen to the Predators in exchange for them taking goalie Frederic Chabot instead of Garry Galley. This also helped in that there was a rule where the a team couldn't lose goalies in back-to-back years. So the Kings didn't need to explicitly protect Fiset and Storr in 1999 (but they did in 2000 which cost them Sean O'Donnell).

Obviously they rules would be switched, they always are. But its all just speculation to guess what they would be, hence why I used the previous draft rules. They are at least as likely to occur as any speculation this board can generate.

You left out one of the big requirements from the expansion draft.
At least one D must have appeared in 40 games the previous year or 70 over the previous 2. And 2 forwards must also meet that requirement. Of those you leave unprotceted.

No, I didn't leave it out. If you'd read the entire post you'd have seen this line:

There was a requirement that each team had to expose players meeting certain games played criteria, but for the sake of this poll we'll just pretend DL would shell out a few prospects or picks to acquire those guys or bring Dustin Penner out of IHOP on a one year deal.

 

[Herby]

Lets trade Vegas a bunch of picks and prospects so they agree to take Jeff Schultz over Matt Greene.

 

[kingsfan]

He cost us Sean O'Donnell and Kimmo Timonen doing those damn deals. Bless his heart we were able to keep Stephane Fiset though.

 

[Herby]

Didn't Chabot have to play 12 games that season to qualify for the expansion draft?

So on top of giving away Kimmo Timonen they also subjected the NHL team to 12 games of an IHL goaltender so they wouldn't risk losing Stephane Fiset? Somehow the Kings were able to stay afloat and finish .500 in the games Chabot played, but man oh man did the Kings just botch things in regards to expansion.

BTW, speaking of the likely upcoming expansion draft, the salary cap is going to make these expansion teams a lot better than previous expansion teams. You could see some decent players, with not so decent contracts made available. And if Vegas and/or Quebec want to spend some money they could build a playoff capable roster right off the bat if they roll the dice and hit on some of these picks.

 

[kingsfan]

Somehow Chabot had a 3-3-2 record. Someone should alert the Vatican about this miracle.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Fwd: Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Lucic, Gaborik, Shore, Lewis, Clifford

Def: Doughty, Muzzin, Voynov, McNabb, Martinez (Forbort if he needs it)

Goalie: Quick

Free: Brown, King, Nolan, Andreoff, Greene, McBain, Martinez (if Forbort stays), Enroth

Brown for cap reasons; King because he's an easy replacement; Nolan/Andreoff/McBain/Enroth because younger guys can fill their spots; Greene because of age, contract, and declining skills; Martinez because of 4 million dollar 3rd pairing guy. Most guys won't be taken like the filler group (Nolan's group). I doubt anyone would take Greene at this point. It would really come down to Brown, Martinez, King (Clifford, Lewis or Forbort if you kept them free).

Lucic--Kopitar--Gaborik
Pearson--Carter--Toffoli
XXX--Shore--Lewis
Clifford--XXX--XXX

Muzzin--Doughty
McNabb--Voynov
Forbort--XXX

Quick
XXX

 

[Ron*]

Ron, correct me if I am wrong, but you have witnessed every NHL expansion. You may just be the only one here to do so. Do you remember anything about the initial expansion draft or were you just too young to recall?

I bet no one did a mock expansion draft back in 1967.

Before my time. I started getting involved with hockey during the Kings' first season, around November/December 1967. Didn't even know we had a team before watching one of the first road games on TV at that time.

So I googled it and found it, on Wiki, of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_NHL_Expansion_Draft

 

[Trolfoli]

Brown with 21 votes?

 

[Brodeur]

Obviously they rules would be switched, they always are. But its all just speculation to guess what they would be, hence why I used the previous draft rules. They are at least as likely to occur as any speculation this board can generate.

It's been an interesting exercise when done with the other teams. The Kings are one of the deeper clubs and probably wouldn't lose anybody too pivotal. But if you try the 9-5-1 protection with the middling teams, it's a pretty ugly list.

The Devils were in a similar spot in 1998-2000 with the last round of expansion. They were a deep club but were forced to make some deals in 99/00 since they couldn't protect everybody. Brian Rolston, Brendan Morrison, a young Sheldon Souray, and a couple other decent young players (who didn't pan out) ended up being moved out in advance.

 

[deeshamrock]

This article has some info on the expansion draft and how the league will have to make several changes the drafting rules due to those issues.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/14/current-nhl-teams-need-to-prep-for-expansion-cap-woes/

-First NHL draft to be done in a hard cap era.

-The large amount of players, esp veteran players who teams in this situation tend to leave unprotected, have NMC's.

- if the CAP is in the 79M ranged by 17/18, the floor would be 51M or so and depending on who they pick, they could have a lot of space come July 1, while the existing teams don't.

Which means when the next expansion draft is completed, these new teams could well have an essentially unlimited amount of cap space with which to sign free agents while perhaps as many as half of the Original 30 are all but capped out when the market opens.

“A critical fact you may be missing is that the team will likely have to be Payroll Range compliant in Year 1,” Deputy Daly wrote. “That mean they have to be at the Payroll Range Floor at a minimum. That would theoretically guide the way they conduct themselves in any Expansion Draft.”

How does an expansion NHL team get a minor league team, or teams in their farm system?

 

[sinister6000]

If you want Dustin Browns contract of the books this is a good way to free up some money.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

I'd absolutely leave Brown unprotected

 

[King'sPawn]

Brown with 21 votes?

The question is who would the Kings protect. Do you think the Kings would willingly lose him for nothing?

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

The question is who would the Kings protect. Do you think the Kings would willingly lose him for nothing?

They should

 

[fsanford]

Not protecting Brown is a no brainer..

Talk about a gift to rid yourself of what right now looks like a bad contract..

Lombardi has been very wise with not giving NMC's those teams that did are probably not going to get much cooperation from the players they want to leave unprotected.

Also it seems some poor lost soul did not want to protect Kopitar given Doughty has 62 votes and he has 61.. Mercy...

 

[kingsfan]

This article has some info on the expansion draft and how the league will have to make several changes the drafting rules due to those issues.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/14/current-nhl-teams-need-to-prep-for-expansion-cap-woes/

-First NHL draft to be done in a hard cap era.

-The large amount of players, esp veteran players who teams in this situation tend to leave unprotected, have NMC's.

- if the CAP is in the 79M ranged by 17/18, the floor would be 51M or so and depending on who they pick, they could have a lot of space come July 1, while the existing teams don't.





How does an expansion NHL team get a minor league team, or teams in their farm system?

I doubt it will be overly hard to get to the floor. teams will be claiming 15-20 players who will actually make their roster to start the following season, maybe more and even if those players average $2 million a season (the average player contract is actually about $3 million) that will be $30 - $50 million right there, nevermind any free agency pick ups and salary dumps that teams pay to send them.

As for the minor league team, usually expansion franchises are announced at least a year before they enter the league and there's is always a shuffling of AHL and ECHL teams affiliations. Wouldn't be a big issue.

 

[kingsfan]

The question is who would the Kings protect. Do you think the Kings would willingly lose him for nothing?

In reality I doubt the Kings would willing lose anyone they have right now for nothing. But you have to lose someone and Brown's contract versus production the past two years is dreadful. If he wasn't hiding behind Richards' epic fail he'd be getting blasted for it on these boards a lot more too. His deal is one of the league's worst.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

So at this point...

Kopitar- 96.83%
Carter- 95.24%
Toffoli- 95.24%
Pearson- 93.65%
Gaborik- 90.48%
Lucic- 84.13%
Shore- 69.84%
King- 60.32%
Lewis- 47.62%

Left to take: Clifford, Brown, Weal, Nolan, Andreoff, Dowd, O'Neill, etc

Doughty- 98.41%
Muzzin- 95.24%
Martinez- 90.48%
Voynov- 84.13%
McNabb- 82.54%

Left to take: Greene, McBain, Loverde, etc

Some odd things:

How is Doughty not 100%?

Carter, Toffoli and Muzzin are all at 95.24%

The Dman are almost all but certain with the lowest Dman saved at 82% and the highest Dman left off at 12%

Brown is about to get jumped by a guy that has struggled to make the NHL (Weal)- 36% to 31%.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Not protecting Brown is a no brainer..

Talk about a gift to rid yourself of what right now looks like a bad contract..

Lombardi has been very wise with not giving NMC's those teams that did are probably not going to get much cooperation from the players they want to leave unprotected.

Also it seems some poor lost soul did not want to protect Kopitar given Doughty has 62 votes and he has 61.. Mercy...

Someone didn't choose to protect Doughty either because he's not at 100%, so someone wanted to pull a joke poll of picks.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Lets trade Vegas a bunch of picks and prospects so they agree to take Jeff Schultz over Matt Greene.

In total the Kings sent the following four players to Nashville in order to have them select Fivehole Freddie Chabot: Marian Cisar, Jan Vopat, Kimmo Timonen, Vitali Yachmenev.

The Predators would later waive Chabot, get claimed by the Kings, and then the Kings would lose Chabot again to the waiver draft as he was plucked by the Canadiens.

Funny enough, the Kings would lose both Storr and Fiset in the same game (against the Avalanche) in '98 and would be forced to scramble and make a deal to bring in Ryan Bach to fill in as a back up to Manny Legace (whom they had acquired from Carolina). Sadly, the Kings would let Legace walk as a UFA and be stuck with two mediocre and injury prone goalies in Fiset and Storr.

Anyhow, the following players were left exposed by the Kings in the '98 expansion draft:
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jun/23/sports/sp-62817

Ruslan Batyrshin, d; Doug Bodger, d; Philippe Boucher, d; Dan Bylsma, lw; Frederic Chabot, g; Russ Courtnall, rw; Ray Ferraro, c; Gary Galley, d; Craig Johnson, lw; Jere Karalahti, d; Nathan Lafayette, c; Jaroslav Modry, d; Sandy Moger, rw; Jeff Shevalier, lw; Martin Strebak, d; Jukka Tiilkainen, lw; Mark Visheau, d; Tomas Vlasak, c; Jan Vopat, d; Roman Vopat, c; Magnus Werblom, rw; Vitali Yachmenev, rw; Doug Zmolek, d.

The rumor at the time was the Kings sent all of those players to Nashville so that they would ensure that Jere Karalahti would not be selected. I'm surprised Boucher was left exposed, but at that time he had hardly played since he was as fragile as fine china.

 

[Brodeur]

For years, I thought the trade was made so that the Kings could protect both Fiset/Storr for 1999. But later I've read that it was also made to protect Garry Galley. I don't remember much of Galley back then, but it looks like he was a solid offensive producer. Although at that point, he was 35.

http://articles.philly.com/1998-06-26/sports/25730183_1_joey-kocur-top-goalies-young-goalie

Brett Hull. Kevin Dineen. Garry Galley. Greg Adams. Joey Kocur. Curtis Joseph. Mike Richter.

Those are some of the interesting names left unprotected for today's NHL expansion draft in Buffalo, in which the Nashville Predators could stock themselves with a decent first-year club.

The Karalahti wrinkle is interesting. If I recall correctly, a then unknown Milan Hejduk was also available. Boucher didn't break out until 2001-02, at which point he got to become a Group V UFA.