Who won the Subban/Weber trade?

[Habby4Life]

Does that mean those Habs final 4 finishes and 100 point seasons are nothing? Go figure.

Yep, winning the cup is what matters. Good seasons like you mention are fine but in the end they mean nothing.

No one should give two craps about president or conference banners. The only one that matters is the one the blues will put in the rafters this season.

 

[tony d]

Montreal for me. I always have preferred Weber to Subban.

 

[Soundgarden]

Nashville won the trade, but they blew that win by trading PK for nothing

We traded Subban so we could sign Duchene. If he plays like he did last year it'll be well worth it to dump him even if we didn't sign Duchene. New Jersey could afford to gamble on him, I expect and hope that he has a comeback year, but that's not what we needed to improve our team.

 

[Killer Orcas]

before he hits dis decline? Did you see him last year?

Bad choice of words meant turns into an anchor. Don't kid yourself he'd get at least that if not a lot more term if he was a UFA this off season. In 3 years though ya he'll be done if he didn't have an injury this season that slowed him down. Let's see how he does this season but I believe he's far from done being a top pairing guy just yet.

 

[triggrman]

Bad choice of words meant turns into an anchor. Don't kid yourself he'd get at least that if not a lot more term if he was a UFA this off season. In 3 years though ya he'll be done if he didn't have an injury this season that slowed him down. Let's see how he does this season but I believe he's far from done being a top pairing guy just yet.

It could have been injury related but he was not a top pairing guy last year. His speed was painful.

 

[Soundgarden]

How many more teams will Subban have to be traded to in his prime before people here recognize there is a reason he gets traded?

No, stop that. Just because Montreal fans are obsessed with tabloid journalism does not mean Nashville moved him because of made up "attitude" problems.

Every hockey fan popped a blood vessel telling us Nashville fans we'd never win without center depth after we lost Johansen going into the finals, then we got Bonino, Turris and Duchene in a calendar year.

Yes, it cost us Subban, but he was awful for most of last year and we're a much better team with Duchene + Fabbro than with Subban + Turris and no Duchene.

Nashville fans, are you going to miss Montreal fans telling you this?

Probably the best thing about moving Subban is now that's New Jersey's problem.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

So Boston won the Seguin trade?

So it's declaring a winner based on team success...

Why do people make such damn lazy posts? No one should need to waste their time explaining the difference to you because you already know it and you're being disingenuous. At least try to make an argument that you think Nashville would've done as well with Weber or something, any kind of proper rebuttal. This example is just dumb.

 

[triggrman]

Here's my take, and it can change but for the most part it's what I've thought since the trade.

At the time of the trade, we needed more speed on defense than Weber, Subban at the time gave us that.

Subban was more dynamic and allowed us to push the pace more. Subban however kept getting slower at a pretty fast pace, this past year he's about as fast as Weber without Weber's size or leadership.

I like Weber more as a player but at the time of the trade Subban was more the player we needed.

Weber will age better than Subban going forward, IMHO.

Subban is way better defensively than most give him credit for, and is not as good offensively.

 

[njdevils1982]

clearly nashville…..they have a "Regular Season Western Conference Champions" banner to prove it

 

[BonMorrison]

Subban is way better defensively than most give him credit for, and is not as good offensively.

This is definitely something I learned too when he got to Nashville.

 

[Killer Orcas]

It could have been injury related but he was not a top pairing guy last year. His speed was painful.

I hope he finds his legs again as was fun to watch. Let's see how season plays out.

 

[GoldOnGold]

We won the Subban-Weber trade, even if we then subsequently made a bad trade with NJ.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Why do people make such damn lazy posts? No one should need to waste their time explaining the difference to you because you already know it and you're being disingenuous. At least try to make an argument that you think Nashville would've done as well with Weber or something, any kind of proper rebuttal. This example is just dumb.

The replies were succinct and to the point. Team success (or lack of) does not determine the winner or loser of the trade. An example was given to strengthen my point. Not sure what more you'd want.

The trade has been a wash to date for Montreal. I prefer Weber mentoring the young guys rather than Subban.

Nashville fans are probably happy with the trade, so I guess you could call it a win for Nashville, and a wash for Montreal, with the potential to be a win for Montreal as well as Weber is the better leader and mentor in the room.

Or, like another poster stated, neither team won the trade. Nashville failed the Subban experiment and traded him away to make room for a player at a different position, and Montreal wasted Webers prime with piss poor rosters.

Happy?

 

[Wats]

Yep, winning the cup is what matters. Good seasons like you mention are fine but in the end they mean nothing.

No one should give two craps about president or conference banners. The only one that matters is the one the blues will put in the rafters this season.

Everyone is a loser here.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Preds did.

Weber's contract is outta control.

7 more years at 7.8 per year is horrendous in a world where every cent counts for cap space nowadays

In a world where Kevin Hayes gets paid 7M a year, I can live with our #1 D all of 800K more than him.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

In a world where Kevin Hayes gets paid 7M a year, I can live with our #1 D all of 800K more than him.

That's fine, but in a few years when he hits 37, 38, 39 and 40 and it's still a 7.8 cap hit, it is going to be rough. Right now I agree, 7.8 is fine... but 7 years more of it is the kicker that I feel most people have an issue with

 

[Julien LG]

That's fine, but in a few years when he hits 37, 38, 39 and 40 and it's still a 7.8 cap hit, it is going to be rough. Right now I agree, 7.8 is fine... but 7 years more of it is the kicker that I feel most people have an issue with

That is because you are expecting him to play past 38 for 1M$ a year. Montreal fans dont think he will.

And no we dont have cap recapture if he retire at that point.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

I don’t think the issue was ever going to be the first three years, the rest of Weber’s contract is the concern. Right now it’s a wash in a year or two it might look real bad for MTL.

 

[mondo13]

I think even now, Nashville got the better end of the trade. Despite his attitude issues Subban was a great player who helped the Predators to their first SCF, and he probably would still be on the team if the didn't have substantial defensive depth to offset the cost of moving his contract.

Weber has been good for the Canadiens and his contract issues will only hurt Nashville, so they didn't really lose out a whole lot. He'll likely end up on LITR towards the end of his career and probably either be cleared out for the space (unless the habs aren't competitive) or transition into a managerial role.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

So one team made finals and got a Norris finalist season out of the player then was able to trade him away for picks to use cap space for UFA signing. Player always had a very tradable contract due to term regardless of performance.

The other team missed playoffs twice+one first round exit in the one full season player played. He still has 7 years left on contract at almost 8M cap hit even though player is 34 years old...trade likely not possible due to term.

Totally a draw-ish

You're right. NASHVILLE ALL THE WAY

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

That's fine, but in a few years when he hits 37, 38, 39 and 40 and it's still a 7.8 cap hit, it is going to be rough. Right now I agree, 7.8 is fine... but 7 years more of it is the kicker that I feel most people have an issue with

By this time the salary cap is potentially going to be almost 100M... No issues there.

 

[DJJones]

Webers the more important player but injuries make it about even.

 

[Sanchise90]

I feel like it depends on what the conversation is. In terms of asset management, the Predators won this easily. I would rather pay Subban from age 28-32 @ 9.0 M AAV for 5 years than Weber age 32-40 @ 7.85 AAV for 9 years. Not to mention, as Nashville kind of demonstrated, it is so much easier to flip Subban for cap relief or other assets than Weber. That Nashville moved off of that contract is a minor miracle.

I think the on-ice product is a bit of a wash when they're both healthy. However, Subban has been far more available than Weber has been in the first few years of the trade and I can't imagine that getting better as Weber ages. So, I would probably give that edge to Subban too.

As a result, I don't see any way how this wasn't a win for Nashville and a loss for Montreal.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

The replies were succinct and to the point. Team success (or lack of) does not determine the winner or loser of the trade. An example was given to strengthen my point. Not sure what more you'd want.

The trade has been a wash to date for Montreal. I prefer Weber mentoring the young guys rather than Subban.

Nashville fans are probably happy with the trade, so I guess you could call it a win for Nashville, and a wash for Montreal, with the potential to be a win for Montreal as well as Weber is the better leader and mentor in the room.

Or, like another poster stated, neither team won the trade. Nashville failed the Subban experiment and traded him away to make room for a player at a different position, and Montreal wasted Webers prime with piss poor rosters.

Happy?

Happier. Team success doesn't determine who won or lost a trade but to pretend it is irrelevant, especially in the case of a player who had a lot to do with said success, is asinine. Especially your Seguin example, its silly, I'm sure the pain is eased in Boston by their success but it has nothing to do with the trade where as PK had much to do with Nashville's.

I actually still really like Shea Weber, and I think at this point Montreal will have a pretty good case for winning the trade because Nashville ultimately squandered PK this summer. But the especially grating thing about ignoring team success is that the biggest gripe from a Montreal perspective was that they would not be in "win now" mode during Weber's prime, everyone knew that was the issue from day one. The bolded pretty much nails it. So team success is part of the equation, and it has been relevant to this trade since the second it was made.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Happier. Team success doesn't determine who won or lost a trade but to pretend it is irrelevant, especially in the case of a player who had a lot to do with said success, is asinine.

Without context it is completely irrelevant. The year Nashville made it to the SCF these were the players statlines:

Weber (6th in Norris voting)

78GP

17G

25A

42PTS

+20

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Subban (No Norris votes)

66GP

10G

30A

40PTS

-8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

And in the playoffs:

Weber:

6GP

1G

2A

3PTS

+1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Subban:

22GP

2G

10A

12PTS

+5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So you'll have me believe that Weber couldn't have done the role that Subban did, which was to take the heavy defensive assignments paired with Ekholm while scoring 1G and 8A in 16 games in rounds 2,3 and 4?

What if I were to tell you that its completely coincidence that Nashville made the finals the year after the trade, just like its a mere coincidence that Montreal improved from being an 82 point team the last year Subban was on the roster to being a 103 point team the first year with Weber?

What if I was to say that the same logic that gives credit to Subban for helping Nashville make the finals is the same logic that would hold him accountable for the teams failure in subsequent years?