Who was the first all offense no defense defenseman?

[WarriorofTime]

Even though the footage is grainy and otherwise hard to watch, players not wearing helmets really makes it a lot easier to tell who is who.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Gadsby is someone who transitioned from all offense in New York to more defense oriented in Detroit.

I get the impression he played as three distinct players depending on which team he was on.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Gadsby is someone who transitioned from all offense in New York to more defense oriented in Detroit.

I get the impression he played as three distinct players depending on which team he was on.

I think structure matters here too. And, broken record that I am, this is why talent evaluation matters so much. Detroit had it "together" much more than the Rangers did. So.you can insulate a guy who generally wants to be in the correct lane...the results will likely be better, but that doesn't make the player himself any better necessarily.

Players, most nights, are pretty much the same from a process standpoint. Crosby goes out and plays basically the same way every night...sometimes he has a 5 point night, sometimes he's scoreless and a dash 3. But if you're looking at his process, his technicals, etc. the difference will not likely be terribly noteworthy...

So with Gadsby, he could make his silly mental errors (like throwing himself into a dog pile on a pinch for whatever reason) but, ya know, Gordie Howe saw it coming and covered for it...Andy Hebenton didn't...that's an oversimplification, of course, but the concept tracks...

I guess internet legal disclaimer: this isn't to say that Gadsby was the exact same player every day of his career either haha

 

[jigglysquishy]

I think structure matters here too. And, broken record that I am, this is why talent evaluation matters so much. Detroit had it "together" much more than the Rangers did. So.you can insulate a guy who generally wants to be in the correct lane...the results will likely be better, but that doesn't make the player himself any better necessarily.

Players, most nights, are pretty much the same from a process standpoint. Crosby goes out and plays basically the same way every night...sometimes he has a 5 point night, sometimes he's scoreless and a dash 3. But if you're looking at his process, his technicals, etc. the difference will not likely be terribly noteworthy...

So with Gadsby, he could make his silly mental errors (like throwing himself into a dog pile on a pinch for whatever reason) but, ya know, Gordie Howe saw it coming and covered for it...Andy Hebenton didn't...that's an oversimplification, of course, but the concept tracks...

I guess internet legal disclaimer: this isn't to say that Gadsby was the exact same player every day of his career either haha

I think this is part of it. Expectations change. I still believe Red Kelly being as good as he was broke what coaches thought a star defenseman should do.


I think usage is too. In the Rangers years it's Gadsby and Bathgate and.....

He was expected to do too much and guys lean on their rushing when they're forced to be everything. It's something I've consistently read for defenseman. They're expected to be an ace offensively and defensively and that's really really hard to do.

Bourque was put in that role and succeeded. Potvin was put in that role but couldn't do it in the playoffs. It wasn't until Morrow joins that Potvin is free to be a better player instead of everything. Chelios is expected to do it in Chicago, but they have one good pair (Chelios-Smith). Pilote at least has two forward lines, but is still expected to be the chef and waiter on the blueline.

A superstar forward on a middling team gets away with being offense offense offense. But a similar calibre defenseman can't. And they either falter (Rangers Gadsby), come close to a Cup and fail (Bruins Bourque and Blackhawks Chelios and Senators Karlsson), or are Bobby Orr.

 

[carjackmalone]

Shouldn’t the answer to this be Paul Coffey and the reason for Rod Langway winning back to back Norris trophy’s ?

 

[Eye of Ra]

Fredrik Olausson.

 

[The Panther]

Shouldn’t the answer to this be Paul Coffey and the reason for Rod Langway winning back to back Norris trophy’s ?

Again, there is no such thing as an "off-offense, no-defense" defenceman.

If you go back and watch the 1984 playoffs or the first half of the 1984-85 NHL season, Coffey was more focused on defence than usual. (I don't really understand why, but the reigns were taken off him in the '85 playoffs, to great effect, and throughout the 1985-86 season with more mixed results.)

Coffey's weakest defensive efforts, as someone already noted, was with Pittsburgh, esp. around 1988-89 and 1989-90.

I mean, someone mentioned Evan Bouchard on page 1. The Oilers just (I write in May 2025) eliminated vaunted Vegas in five games. Bouchard's strong numbers at evens were supposedly the result of his partner, Ekholm. Well, in the five game series, Bouchard went +7, easily the best on either team, and did so without his defence partner. He was defensively solid.

I still think there are probably examples of Phil Housley being defensively solid at times... I just haven't seen them yet...