Who to sign to change the DNA?

[ToneDog]

That’s the question.
When Boston won, who is the franchise C: Bergeron or Krejci?
Is Toews a franchise C? 3 Cups.
Is Kopitar a franchise C? 2 Cups.
2019 Blues roster?
Datsyuk/Zetterberg
Ryan Getzlaf?
Backstrom/Kuznetsov?

Are any of these C equal to Matthews? Or is having 2 really good centers acceptable?

We had the 2019 Blues, SC winner, Conn Smythe winning #1C. He could not get them over the hump and could not leave fast enough. Seems that this franchise will be treading water for 3 years before it drowns.

 

[Dough72]

Florida is only winning because of sheer dumb luck. Nobody, including Florida, could have predicted Marchand, Jones, and Bennet would carry a team to the Stanley Cup.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If you trade Matthews, you are not looking to immediately get better. You are in teardown and rebuild mode unless you get real lucky with the Matthews return. This franchise would never do it. Can't upset the Bay Street suits paying for the platinum seat and overpriced food and alcohol.

Even if they wanted to, and no team goes from winning the division to teardown mode in 1 season that does not exist.

But even if they wanted to be the first team in history to do that it doesn't make sense right now.

Because while there are protections on their picks no matter what they do, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be as Buffalo or Detroit you can't do it those teams are a different level right now, they are poison.

And before you or anyone else says Boston went from winning the division to teardown in 1 season no they didn't.

They signed Lindholm and Zadorov those are not teardown moves, they weren't great but they are not teardown moves.

 

[Tak7]

Even if they wanted to, and no team goes from winning the division to teardown mode in 1 season that does not exist.

But even if they wanted to be the first team in history to do that it doesn't make sense right now.

Because while there are protections on their picks no matter what they do, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be as Buffalo or Detroit you can't do it those teams are a different level right now, they are poison.

And before you or anyone else says Boston went from winning the division to teardown in 1 season no they didn't.

They signed Lindholm and Zadorov those are not teardown moves, they weren't great but they are not teardown moves.

The Bruins did teardown this year though - they moved out basically everything that wasn't nailed down before the deadline this year.

It's more of a re-tool, but they'll be helped significantly by picking 7th overall - they are going to get an exciting prospect there (JO'B, Hagens, Martone [Martone] who perfectly fits the Bruins, etc)

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The Bruins did teardown this year though - they moved out basically everything that wasn't nailed down before the deadline this year.

It's more of a re-tool, but they'll be helped significantly by picking 7th overall - they are going to get an exciting prospect there (JO'B, Hagens, Martone [Martone] who perfectly fits the Bruins, etc)

I don't thnk Hagens falls to them.

 

[banks]

You change the DNA by replacing 4 of the top 4 forwards, and the #1 defenseman.

Because every other component on the team has changed already, most of them multiple times. There's no other original DNA left. The disease can't be hiding anywhere else but there.

Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, and Rielly. That's the DNA of the team. Has been sine 2018-19. Seven seasons for that group without a single meaningful playoff run. It's a disgrace. And there's no defending it anymore.

So sign anyone you want, it doesn't matter. They've already proven that changes to the supporting cast and goaltending, or deadline pickups and UFA signings don't move the needle. You can't just buy a new trunk lid when the engine doesn't run. The core needs to go. All of them.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

The Leafs windows slammed shut when they lost to Montreal and decided to do nothing about it. That's why it's a little interesting to see people celebrate the team signing 34 year olds to long term contracts with full NMCs.

 

[Trapper]

Even if they wanted to, and no team goes from winning the division to teardown mode in 1 season that does not exist.

But even if they wanted to be the first team in history to do that it doesn't make sense right now.

Because while there are protections on their picks no matter what they do, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be as Buffalo or Detroit you can't do it those teams are a different level right now, they are poison.

And before you or anyone else says Boston went from winning the division to teardown in 1 season no they didn't.

They signed Lindholm and Zadorov those are not teardown moves, they weren't great but they are not teardown moves.

We have 3 years of Matthews to pull it together (if Marner walks). After that, I’m only 50% sold on Matthews staying and /or this mysterious injury slows him down. So there won’t be a tear down, but the clock’s ticking. The build started 10 years ago, has about 3/4 more years of life left.
In 15 years from the start, it will be rebuild.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd say there are 6, maybe 7 depending on how you feel about Jack Hughes.

For me the 6 are

Mcdavid
Matthews
Draisatil
Mackinnon
Crosby
Eichel

Those are the 6 true franchise centers in my opinion

Thanks for the great reply.

Don't disagree with those.

Hughes, Aho, Point a touch below.

Kopitar aging out.
Bergeron a different type of franchise center, before retiring.

Maybe can become Stutzle, Suzuki, Celebrini.

Who knows if Larkin had ever been on a good team?


So, I agree you need a #1 center, but I don't agree trading Matthews must be a failure.

We agree Barkov is on your Franchise center list .

Oilers have 2, and ...

It is as is said, a trade to make the team better, stronger, now or in the future, or both.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Thanks for the great reply.

Don't disagree with those.

Hughes, Aho, Point a touch below.

Kopitar aging out.
Bergeron a different type of franchise center, before retiring.

Maybe can become Stutzle, Suzuki, Celebrini.

Who know if Larkin had ever been on a good team?

Shit I just realized I missed Barkov.

So 7

 

[ULF_55]

Shit I just realized I missed Barkov.

So 7

I was thinking he was / would be ... and then noticed he was not and added to the comment.

We agree is in the Top 10 anyway.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I was thinking he was / would be ... and then noticed he was not and added to the comment.

We agree is in the Top 10 anyway.

Yeah I wrote that at close to 3 am was half asleep and just missed him.

 

[ULF_55]

That’s the question.
When Boston won, who is the franchise C: Bergeron or Krejci?
Is Toews a franchise C? 3 Cups.
Is Kopitar a franchise C? 2 Cups.
2019 Blues roster?
Datsyuk/Zetterberg
Ryan Getzlaf?
Backstrom/Kuznetsov?

Are any of these C equal to Matthews? Or is having 2 really good centers acceptable?

We know just having a franchise center isn't a guarantee of anything.
We also know you can win without a franchise center.

What may be up for debate is what constitutes a franchise center?
Is it just points?

If we judge Bergeron's career by just points we're dismissing his 6 Selke's, Clancy and Messier Leadership awards.

 

[colchar]

Florida is only winning because of sheer dumb luck.

 

[colchar]

The Leafs windows slammed shut when they lost to Montreal and decided to do nothing about it. That's why it's a little interesting to see people celebrate the team signing 34 year olds to long term contracts with full NMCs.

Who, exactly, are you referring to?

 

[ULF_55]

Florida is only winning because of sheer dumb luck. Nobody, including Florida, could have predicted Marchand, Jones, and Bennet would carry a team to the Stanley Cup.

And do the Penguins win their last 2 Cup without that floating, no-effort, hog dog eating ...

 

[kevsh]

You change the DNA by replacing 4 of the top 4 forwards, and the #1 defenseman.

Because every other component on the team has changed already, most of them multiple times. There's no other original DNA left. The disease can't be hiding anywhere else but there.

Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, and Rielly. That's the DNA of the team. Has been sine 2018-19. Seven seasons for that group without a single meaningful playoff run. It's a disgrace. And there's no defending it anymore.

So sign anyone you want, it doesn't matter. They've already proven that changes to the supporting cast and goaltending, or deadline pickups and UFA signings don't move the needle. You can't just buy a new trunk lid when the engine doesn't run. The core needs to go. All of them.

Yes.

Which is why I say Treliving should resist the urge (or push from above) to load up now while Matthews & Nylander are still here.

They can't go into selling mode but if this organization is serious about this DNA talk they have to recognize it's the top guys that are the biggest part of that. So fiddle, but don't trade futures or prospects (the 2 that we have left that is) and ride it out.

The downside is wasting away a pretty solid d-core that's locked up for a few years but simply trying to trade/sign guys that will alter the DNA sufficiently is going to fail as long as the top guys are here (and it's a given they have no intention of changing their own approach).

Basically, I'd look at starting that reconstruction today via smart signings and drafting but wait until Matthews walks before kicking it into full "DNA change" mode.

 

[ITM]

Florida is only winning because of sheer dumb luck. Nobody, including Florida, could have predicted Marchand, Jones, and Bennet would carry a team to the Stanley Cup.

Well...Maybe the architect of the club, Bill Zito, had an inkling when he acquired them that they might?

 

[Dough72]

uh you kind of parsed out the entire argument? But you're probably right, bringing in mid level castoffs and they suddenly produce like Draisaitl and Macdavid is totally normal. Leafs should just go with that strategy.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Oilers sold Gretzky

They got Carson.

 

[BlueForever75]

To answer initial question of how to change DNA:

Current Roster

1. Let Marner walk

2. Have Reilly waive no trade and in turn trade him

3. Trade Jarnkrok and Kampf

4. Trade Robertson

5. Resign Tavares 5yrs X 5million

6. Resign Lorentz 2yrs X 1.2million

7. Resign Holmberg 2 yrs X 1.2million

8. Resign Knies (one way or another on a bridge or long term contract)

9. Resign Patches on vet minimum deal 1yr


Additions

1. Sign Bennett 6yrs X 9million

2. Sign Provorov or Gravrikov to longer term contracts for less cap hit

3. Trade for Bertuzzi from Chicago

4. Trade for Zibanejad from NYR

5. Sign B. Tanev 2 yrs X 2million


Lineup

Knies - Matthews - Cowan
Tavares - Bennett - McMann
Bertuzzi - Zibandejad - Nylander
Lorentz - Laughton - Tanev
Holmberg, Patches

Provorov/Gavrikov - Carlo
McCabe - Tanev
Benoit - OEL
Myers

Stolarz
Woll


I believe Tre will offload Kampf, Jarnkrok, Reaves, Robertson in deals to bring in the players in question. Domi and Jarnkrok as part of a package for Zibandejad. Kampf and Robertson as part of packages for Bertuzzi. With Reaves as a throw in any package. And I would expect Reilly to be dealt for prospects and picks that would be flipped in both of those deals as well.

That would be my perfect Leaf off season.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Who is the Panthers' franchise center?

Barkov.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Even if they wanted to, and no team goes from winning the division to teardown mode in 1 season that does not exist.

But even if they wanted to be the first team in history to do that it doesn't make sense right now.

Because while there are protections on their picks no matter what they do, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be as Buffalo or Detroit you can't do it those teams are a different level right now, they are poison.

And before you or anyone else says Boston went from winning the division to teardown in 1 season no they didn't.

They signed Lindholm and Zadorov those are not teardown moves, they weren't great but they are not teardown moves.

No but Boston went from best team ever to no playoffs in 2 seasons. This team will implode in 2 seasons, they are old with almost no youth, no picks and one prospect.Soon Ottawa and Montreal will leapfrog them. This team is in worse trouble than people think.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

To answer initial question of how to change DNA:

Current Roster

1. Let Marner walk

2. Have Reilly waive no trade and in turn trade him

3. Trade Jarnkrok and Kampf

4. Trade Robertson

5. Resign Tavares 5yrs X 5million

6. Resign Lorentz 2yrs X 1.2million

7. Resign Holmberg 2 yrs X 1.2million

8. Resign Knies (one way or another on a bridge or long term contract)

9. Resign Patches on vet minimum deal 1yr


Additions

1. Sign Bennett 6yrs X 9million

2. Sign Provorov or Gravrikov to longer term contracts for less cap hit

3. Trade for Bertuzzi from Chicago

4. Trade for Zibanejad from NYR

5. Sign B. Tanev 2 yrs X 2million


Lineup

Knies - Matthews - Cowan
Tavares - Bennett - McMann
Bertuzzi - Zibandejad - Nylander
Lorentz - Laughton - Tanev
Holmberg, Patches

Provorov/Gavrikov - Carlo
McCabe - Tanev
Benoit - OEL
Myers

Stolarz
Woll


I believe Tre will offload Kampf, Jarnkrok, Reaves, Robertson in deals to bring in the players in question. Domi and Jarnkrok as part of a package for Zibandejad. Kampf and Robertson as part of packages for Bertuzzi. With Reaves as a throw in any package. And I would expect Reilly to be dealt for prospects and picks that would be flipped in both of those deals as well.

That would be my perfect Leaf off season.

You wasted 1.2 million in Cap space.

Holmberg brought NOTHING this season

 

[ToneDog]

Even if they wanted to, and no team goes from winning the division to teardown mode in 1 season that does not exist.

But even if they wanted to be the first team in history to do that it doesn't make sense right now.

Because while there are protections on their picks no matter what they do, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be as Buffalo or Detroit you can't do it those teams are a different level right now, they are poison.

And before you or anyone else says Boston went from winning the division to teardown in 1 season no they didn't.

They signed Lindholm and Zadorov those are not teardown moves, they weren't great but they are not teardown moves.

It makes sense to trade Matthews if you no longer believe he can win you a cup. We will see that with Marner and he is leaving for cap space. We saw that with DeRozen, McGriff and Fernandez and those trades won championships. If you can get a bluechip #1C and #1D in return, why not after 9 playoff failures and the amount of cap he is taking up? What have you seen in 11 playoff series that makes you confident that he can win you a Cup?

If they fail in the next 3 years, they will potentially be facing a 5+ year drought. Better to sell high than to end up having to sell a lemon for pennies on the dollar.