Who Should the Flyers Draft At 7th Overall?

[Haanz]

If somebody bet me right now who would have a more successful NHL career, Zacha or Konecny, I would bet Konecny. I know that's a difficult decision, given all of Zacha's physical tools, and they are different players, but in a tight playoff series, I'd rather have Konecny on my team.

You and me both. If Konecny gets drafted in the teens as projected, I feel pretty confident he'll outperform at least a handful of the players taken ahead of him. He's right near/at the top of my wish list, even at 7.

 

[IronMarshal]

You and me both. If Konecny gets drafted in the teens as projected, I feel pretty confident he'll outperform at least a handful of the players taken ahead of him. He's right near/at the top of my wish list, even at 7.

I like Konecny, but I am afraid he wont survive in the NHL playing the hard nose style that makes him so appealing. He was banged up in Juniors. Imagine what the NHL is going to do to him. He is too much of a risk given the player choices that are there at #7 for my liking.

 

[JABEE]

I hope Rantanen is still there at number 7. He's my pick right now.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

You and me both. If Konecny gets drafted in the teens as projected, I feel pretty confident he'll outperform at least a handful of the players taken ahead of him. He's right near/at the top of my wish list, even at 7.

Konecny is a safe bet to make the NHL, but I don't see the upside. He doesn't seem to have the creativity or gamebreaking offensive instincts you want on a scoring line.

 

[Willis88]

I could see Marner slipping but not past the Devils :/

 

[Rebels57]

I could see Marner slipping but not past the Devils :/

If NJ views him as more of a winger in the NHL, they may pass him up as they desperately need a 1st line Center. They move view Zacha or Rantanen as better options because of their size. #WishfulThinking

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Konecny is a safe bet to make the NHL, but I don't see the upside. He doesn't seem to have the creativity or gamebreaking offensive instincts you want on a scoring line.

I can't see him being any worse than Brendan Gallagher.

And for those saying Konecny can't play his style in the NHL without getting hurt, Gallagher plays that style and has played 81 and 82 games the last two seasons.

Is there really a correlation of smaller players being more injury prone than bigger players? Seems to me big guys get hurt just as often or more. (Lindros, Hatcher, Rathje, Neely, Bertuzzi, Lemieux, Souray, Kerr, etc.)

 

[PALE PWNR]

I can't see him being any worse than Brendan Gallagher.

And for those saying Konecny can't play his style in the NHL without getting hurt, Gallagher plays that style and has played 81 and 82 games the last two seasons.

Is there really a correlation of smaller players being more injury prone than bigger players? Seems to me big guys get hurt just as often or more. (Lindros, Hatcher, Rathje, Neely, Bertuzzi, Lemieux, Souray, Kerr, etc.)

Richards, Mike

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Richards, Mike

Well if whoever we draft ends up winning a Memorial Cup, Calder, Olympic Gold and 2 Stanley Cups...I'll take him.

 

[Random Forest]

Is there really a correlation of smaller players being more injury prone than bigger players? Seems to me big guys get hurt just as often or more. (Lindros, Hatcher, Rathje, Neely, Bertuzzi, Lemieux, Souray, Kerr, etc.)

In short, no. It seems logical that short players are "more fragile", so most people accept it as given, but I'd wager that assumption would wilt quickly under any statistical scrutiny.

Richards, Mike

Wait. The guy asks if there is a correlation between height and injuries...and you give him a single name? For reference: correlation.

 

[PALE PWNR]

In short, no. It seems logical that short players are "more fragile", so most people accept it as given, but I'd wager that assumption would wilt quickly under any statistical scrutiny.



Wait. The guy asks if there is a correlation between height and injuries...and you give him a single name? For reference: correlation.

Thanks so much for the informative post regarding correlation I had no idea what that meant!

Or maybe I made a quick post of the first name that should pop in everyones mind when you talk about small players being injury plagued earlier in their careers due to the way they play the game. If you'd like to type in google small players forced to retire early or something along those lines I'm sure you can find more examples as well.

Way to be a condescending troglodyte though bro. Good job, your e-peen must have grown a whole 2 inches with that post.

Paul Kariya, Pat Lafontaine and Bobby Orr

 

[Random Forest]

Thanks so much for the informative post regarding correlation I had no idea what that meant!

Or maybe I made a quick post of the first name that should pop in everyones mind when you talk about small players being injury plagued earlier in their careers due to the way they play the game. If you'd like to type in google small players forced to retire early or something along those lines I'm sure you can find more examples as well.

Way to be a condescending troglodyte though bro. Good job, your e-peen must have grown a whole 2 inches with that post.

Paul Kariya, Pat Lafontaine and Bobby Orr

Dude, four players doesn't make a strong correlation, either. I can give just as many big, oft-injured players in response, and it wouldn't mean anything.

You're not exactly proving you understand the concept here, so I'd slow down on the name calling.

EDIT: Lol, my post wasn't even that condescending. You seem to have some pent up rage, man.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Is Richards really *that* injury prone?

Games played by season:

79, 59, 73, 79, 82 (full), 81, 74, 48 (full), 82 (full), 69 (healthy scratch for a while)

That's only 1 season out of 10 where he missed double-digit games due to injury.

And, as hockeyfreak7 notes, the overall point is that there are examples of players of all sizes who are injury prone, and I doubt a statistical study would show that larger players are less injury prone than smaller ones.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Dude, four players doesn't make a strong correlation, either. I can give just as many big, oft-injured players in response, and it wouldn't mean anything.

You're not exactly proving you understand the concept here, so I'd slow down on the name calling.

ok. I'm not exactly prepared to offer a case study of undersized players that had their career cut short by injuries, and unless someone else here is, thats not saying anything, what I can provide are examples. Others as well can provide examples if they so choose, as I am sure that there are plenty more then the 4 that I can think of off the top of my head over a fleeting 30 seconds of looking at the topic. That's typically along the lines of how a discussion goes. Instead you attacked my intelligence and have continued to do so.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The problem is not many smaller players play a physical brand of hockey.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Is Richards really *that* injury prone?

Games played by season:

79, 59, 73, 79, 82 (full), 81, 74, 48 (full), 82 (full), 69 (healthy scratch for a while)

That's only 1 season out of 10 where he missed double-digit games due to injury.

And, as hockeyfreak7 notes, the overall point is that there are examples of players of all sizes who are injury prone, and I doubt a statistical study would show that larger players are less injury prone than smaller ones.

In Richards case, it's not just his games played either though it's a significant decline in his play. He hasn't cracked 20 Goals or 45 points since he put on an LA King Uniform and at the ripe old age of 30 he looks done.

 

[Random Forest]

ok. I'm not exactly prepared to offer a case study of undersized players that had their career cut short by injuries, and unless someone else here is, thats not saying anything, what I can provide are examples. Others as well can provide examples if they so choose, as I am sure that there are plenty more then the 4 that I can think of off the top of my head over a fleeting 30 seconds of looking at the topic. That's typically along the lines of how a discussion goes. Instead you attacked my intelligence and have continued to do so.

Attacking your intelligence? I questioned whether you understood the concept of "correlation" which seems a pretty logical challenge given the response I quoted. You're the one who called me a fricken troglodyte.

You seem a touch sensitive.


You're free to present as many examples as you'd like. I was only pointing out that the poster asked for evidence of correlation and your single example hardly qualified as an answer to his question.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

In Richards case, it's not just his games played either though it's a significant decline in his play. He hasn't cracked 20 Goals or 45 points since he put on an LA King Uniform and at the ripe old age of 30 he looks done.

Is that a function of his size, though, or his failure to take his health and conditioning seriously?

And again, I think you can find just as many big players who broke down early as smaller players.

I think you are probably correct that more physical players break down earlier than finesse players, but I think that's in general. I doubt size makes any considerable difference, statistically.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

You cannot deny that Richards playing the style he did at his size did not lead to an earlier decline than most players. Most players are still plenty productive at his age, but his style earlier in his career destroyed his body, and it wasn't big enough to handle it.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

I can't see him being any worse than Brendan Gallagher.

And for those saying Konecny can't play his style in the NHL without getting hurt, Gallagher plays that style and has played 81 and 82 games the last two seasons.

Is there really a correlation of smaller players being more injury prone than bigger players? Seems to me big guys get hurt just as often or more. (Lindros, Hatcher, Rathje, Neely, Bertuzzi, Lemieux, Souray, Kerr, etc.)

I want more upside than Gallagher at #7.

The problem is not many smaller players play a physical brand of hockey.

This. The ones that do have stocky frames to back it up (not saying Konecny doesn't). It's more about weight/mass than height. If a 220 lb object collides with a 170 lb object, which is going to come out on top?

 

[PALE PWNR]

Is that a function of his size, though, or his failure to take his health and conditioning seriously?

And again, I think you can find just as many big players who broke down early as smaller players.

I think you are probably correct that more physical players break down earlier than finesse players, but I think that's in general. I doubt size makes any considerable difference, statistically.

I think his size combined with the way he has played up until this point in his career certainly has a lot to do with it. I'm no expert on what he does in the off-season and I know he has a reputation for not taking those things seriously during them. But in general the amount of attention athletes in more recent history pay to their fitness has increased to the point that even guys like Richards who "don't take their health and conditioning seriously" these days are sill world's apart from the training and conditioning people just a decade or 2 ago were used to let alone when you go back to the 80s 70s and before. Guys are bigger these days, and if you are playing a physical brand of hockey at 6'0" or under eventually its going to catch up to you, and I think the smaller you are the sooner that day comes. But again I'm not prepared to offer you any kind of statistical information to back that up either. Another example is the guy wearing the C on the Kings.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You cannot deny that Richards playing the style he did at his size did not lead to an earlier decline than most players. Most players are still plenty productive at his age, but his style earlier in his career destroyed his body, and it wasn't big enough to handle it.

Richards "not being big enough to handle" his style of play is baseless conjecture.

Were Lindros, Neely, and Tim Kerr not big enough to handle a physical style of play? They all broke down early.

Then you also have little guys who had long physical careers like Dino Ciccarelli who scored 35 goals when he was 36.

I do concede, in general, that physical players probably break down earlier than finesse players, but I really don't think size has anything to do with it.

 

[Random Forest]

Richards "not being big enough to handle" his style of play is baseless conjecture.

Were Lindros, Neely, and Tim Kerr not big enough to handle a physical style of play? They all broke down early.

Then you also have little guys who had long physical careers like Dino Ciccarelli who scored 35 goals when he was 36.

I do concede, in general, that physical players probably break down earlier than finesse players, but I really don't think size has anything to do with it.

I agree with this. It's just confirmation bias to blame Richards's regression on his size. Like you said, big, physical players "break down" all the same as small, physical players.

 

[flyershockey]

It's also a bit silly to act like Richards' style didn't at least somewhat contribute to his early breakdown.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's also a bit silly to act like Richards' style didn't at least somewhat contribute to his early breakdown.

Where did anyone act like that?