Who should take the blame in Toronto for letting Marner walk and get nothing in return?

[VaporTrail]

Maybe no one ?? Maybe that's just hockey ?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I mean i'm sure the Leafs thought they can win the cup so they held onto Marner? And you answered your own question, Marner wouldn't waive so there you go.

a) There was a small window where they could trade him before his NMC kicked in. Had I been GM I would have worked the phones 24 hours a day leading up to the window to see what was available.

b) Indeed the Leafs did try to trade him this past deadline and he wouldn't waive. I don't fault him for that, he earned the right but your two statements "the Leafs held onto Marner" and "Marner wouldn't waive" don't really fit together very well.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

At the end of the day, it is a tough call for a playoff team to trade their leading scorer. Plus, he had a NMC

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Have any specific moves in mind?

Not trying to set you up for a gotcha, genuinely curious about your perspective

Just letting Marner walk is a move all on its own. If he's going to command $14M+ as reports state, I'd rather someone else pay it than the Leafs. I bet the Leafs could sign both Bennet and Marchand for that money. Ask yourself who you'd rather have (not that either player would want to come here - just a thought experiment).

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

NMC. Forget if it was active the whole time but regardless, it was constantly Shanny that kept people from trading out someone in the core 4

The NMC only kicked in July 1st. There was an opportunity. I said it as well at the time, if he doesn't agree to an extension, trade him to the highest bidder.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Gaylord, only the team that had his rights for the playoffs can offer the 8th year. And that contract has to be finalized before 7/1, and one UFA eligibility commences only 7 year contract can be offered.

To the OP question, vast majority Shanny.

I should have stayed a sign and trade.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Fans and media. They made him the scape goat for many things, while Matthews for the longest time got a free pass.

Marnier has 14 more pts than Matthews over the last 10 years. While most praised Matthews for his goal scoring, they took the whip to Marnier. It will be interesting to how he does away from Matthews shadow.

 

[Jumptheshark]

BTW. For those commenting on why the Leafs did not trade him prior to his NMC kicking in? Every contender has the same problem. Leafs are in a win now mode and trading him would have been critiqued. Also, who could take his contract and who would have replaced him

 

[zenator]

Nobody. When your goal is to go far in the playoffs, you don't trade away stars for futures, you keep them to the end to try and win. If they traded Marner 1 year ago for picks and prospects, they would have done worse last season.

Look at Florida. They lost Montour. They will probably lose 1 of Ekblad, Bennett, or Marchand. It's the cost of trying to win. Yeah, they won it all, but there are plenty of teams in the same situation that didn't go all the way, but it was worthwhile to try.

Contenders pick up UFAs to be at the trade deadline all the time, and lose them to free agency.

It's just how it goes when you're a contender. You add and keep stars, to load up each year, and worry about the consequences later.

 

[optimus2861]

PPG isn't good enough for a player paid like him with his talent level.

His season stats are: 30g/70a player
His playoff stats are: 15g/55a player
His game 6/7 stats: 5g/25a player (1g/5a in 15 games)

He's supposed to be McDavid Lite, but in the playoffs he turns into Clarke MacArthur Plus and in games 6/7 Craig MacTavish

He really does seem to fade as a series goes longer and the pressure goes up:

21 vs Habs: 1 pt in games 4-7, nothing in 6-7.
22 vs Bolts: 2 pts in games 4-7.
23 vs Panthers: 1 pt in the 4 losses, but did get in on both goals in the lone Leafs win, but they were already down 0-3 in the series so "too little, too late."
24 vs Bruins: 2 pts in games 4-7, nothing in 6-7.
25 vs Panthers: 1 pt in games 4-7.

He's got that one good series vs the Bolts in 23 padding his numbers (11 pts in 6).

 

[NVious]

Fans and media. They made him the scape goat for many things, while Matthews for the longest time got a free pass.

Marnier has 14 more pts than Matthews over the last 10 years. While most praised Matthews for his goal scoring, they took the whip to Marnier. It will be interesting to how he does away from Matthews shadow.

1.None of you follow Toronto media closely, Matthews gets a ton of criticism, they all do, but we mostly have to praise them because of how sensitive they all are. These guys have failed so much, nobody even talks about them losing to a 40 year old zamboni driver anymore (arguably the greatest upset in Hockey history)
2.Matthews and Marner go down a ton season to playoffs, but the difference is that Matthews production is relatively stable the entire series, Mitch somehow managed to have an even worse game 6/7 compared to JT;
JT had 5g/2a/11gp
Mitch had 1g/5a/15gp
3.We're not choosing between Matthews and Marner because both of them have NTC, both of them would refuse to waive and if two players are struggling, you don't get rid of the big goal scoring center, you get rid of the soft winger who wants the same money as the big center

Again, how can the fans be too harsh on a guy who goes from:
30/70 (season stats)
15/55 (playoff stats)
5/25 (game 6/7 stats)

It's impossible and he would've been run out of town anywhere else, Mikko Rantanen who Mitch wants to be paid 2 million more than scored the SAME AMOUNT of goals as Mitch did in his last 6 PLAYOFFS TOTAL in 4 GAMES (8 in 4 vs 8 in 50) and Mitch STILL wants to be paid more than him. Mitch's delusions are insane.

This sums up his time here

 

[Daishi]

Just letting Marner walk is a move all on its own. If he's going to command $14M+ as reports state, I'd rather someone else pay it than the Leafs. I bet the Leafs could sign both Bennet and Marchand for that money. Ask yourself who you'd rather have (not that either player would want to come here - just a thought experiment).

Bennet and Marchy will cost 16M.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Bennet and Marchy will cost 16M.

OK, but I'd still do that every day over paying Marner $14M or whatever ridiculous amount he'll be paid.

(And I actually like Marner FYI)

 

[Daishi]

OK, but I'd still do that every day over paying Marner $14M or whatever ridiculous amount he'll be paid.

(And I actually like Marner FYI)

For sure. I think contenders would pay Marner 12M despite his shortcomings and those 14M numbers can only come from some desperate born to lose franchises.

 

[Jumptheshark]

1.None of you follow Toronto media closely, Matthews gets a ton of criticism, they all do, but we mostly have to praise them because of how sensitive they all are. These guys have failed so much, nobody even talks about them losing to a 40 year old zamboni driver anymore (arguably the greatest upset in Hockey history)
2.Matthews and Marner go down a ton season to playoffs, but the difference is that Matthews production is relatively stable the entire series, Mitch somehow managed to have an even worse game 6/7 compared to JT;
JT had 5g/2a/11gp
Mitch had 1g/5a/15gp
3.We're not choosing between Matthews and Marner because both of them have NTC, both of them would refuse to waive and if two players are struggling, you don't get rid of the big goal scoring center, you get rid of the soft winger who wants the same money as the big center

Again, how can the fans be too harsh on a guy who goes from:
30/70 (season stats)
15/55 (playoff stats)
5/25 (game 6/7 stats)

It's impossible and he would've been run out of town anywhere else, Mikko Rantanen who Mitch wants to be paid 2 million more than scored the SAME AMOUNT of goals as Mitch did in his last 6 PLAYOFFS TOTAL in 4 GAMES (8 in 4 vs 8 in 50) and Mitch STILL wants to be paid more than him. Mitch's delusions are insane.

This sums up his time here

You are aware that the media is based out of TO and leafs are rammed down our throats? Even with oilers in the playoffs both tsn and sportsnet felt obligated to talk leafs. Leafs get knocked out we had 3 or 4 days of crap on them on both Stations. Oilers? 2 days

 

[DuncanMacpherson]

Treleving and Shanahan.
Terrible asset management.

Treliving arrived like the day Marner’s no trade kicked in. Shanahan made the poorly times GM change right when Marner needed to be traded. Wouldn’t be surprised if this is why Shanahan was fired

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Shanny

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Shanahan. Sounded like Dubas wanted to make a move before NMC hit and they said no.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Stop saying shit. It was obvious Toronto wasn't going to trade Marner before the playoffs, especially given how good he looked at the 4Nations. But he didn't play as good as expected in the postseason again, and Toronto decided (it looks like) to not resign him, and it was too late to trade him. It's as simple as this. There is nobody to blame, the situation is pretty typical.

They literally asked him if he was willing to waive his NMC for Rantanen. Which he refused.

Prior to that, Dubas made it pretty apparent he wanted to move on from the core four before Shanahan fired him.

Saying there's nobody to blame is not only nonsense, it's ignoring reality. Shanahan didn't want to give up on his beloved Shannaplan and his ego cost the Leafs a lot of assets while Shanahan lost his job over it.

 

[NVious]

You are aware that the media is based out of TO and leafs are rammed down our throats? Even with oilers in the playoffs both tsn and sportsnet felt obligated to talk leafs. Leafs get knocked out we had 3 or 4 days of crap on them on both Stations. Oilers? 2 days

Nothing biased about serving the biggest fanbase and I highly doubt any non Leafs fans sit there and watch significant amounts of Leafs media to get a true feel for what is actually taking place apart from a talking point or two they hear.

How much Leafs related media do you consume as a non Leaf fan? 1-2 hours a year?

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Fans and media. They made him the scape goat for many things, while Matthews for the longest time got a free pass.

Marnier has 14 more pts than Matthews over the last 10 years. While most praised Matthews for his goal scoring, they took the whip to Marnier. It will be interesting to how he does away from Matthews shadow.

That fans were 100% behind Marner in TOR until the last year or so. Saying they "took the whip to Marner" is a really high level of hyperbole.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Fans and media. They made him the scape goat for many things, while Matthews for the longest time got a free pass.

Marnier has 14 more pts than Matthews over the last 10 years. While most praised Matthews for his goal scoring, they took the whip to Marnier. It will be interesting to how he does away from Matthews shadow.

I don't know why fans and media get blamed for the players shortcomings? Go out there and win, how about that novel concept? Or at least go deep? Then there will be no heat. This franchise as whole needs a lot more criticism than this even. 23 years without even a conference final appearance. They continue to be incompetent. but sure, it's on the media and fans LOL

 

[nbwingsfan]

Stop saying shit. It was obvious Toronto wasn't going to trade Marner before the playoffs, especially given how good he looked at the 4Nations. But he didn't play as good as expected in the postseason again, and Toronto decided (it looks like) to not resign him, and it was too late to trade him. It's as simple as this. There is nobody to blame, the situation is pretty typical.

Typical? How often do teams lose a 100pt player in his prime for nothing? Gaudreau is the only one I can think of.

The stupid play was holding onto him after last season

 

[Warden of the North]

Shanahan already walked the plank.

 

[Jared Dunn]

BTW. For those commenting on why the Leafs did not trade him prior to his NMC kicking in? Every contender has the same problem. Leafs are in a win now mode and trading him would have been critiqued. Also, who could take his contract and who would have replaced him

So instead they beat their head against the wall with the same mix of players that proved time and time again they can't get over the hump for two more years rather than getting a quality package for him. And to your above comment, there are no complaints about this player from October through March, he shrinks in the playoffs and seems to become worse as the playoffs go on, and fans began souring on him when his camp made a stink in the media during his contract negotiations. Also Matthews is just better so that helps, and realistically the injury excuse for him is fairly valid while being a problem in itself