Speculation: Who, on the Team, Has Checked Out?

[theamazingchris]

Also I think it's wayyyy to easy to scapegoat the guy who's struggling in Ladd. People are reading what they want to see in everything to do with him. Maybe he's just a calm, stoic person? That's not so out there, and I'd argue is a more effective leadership tactic than getting riled up easily.

But of course, if he's no good, it'll be easier to swallow when he walks for nothing this summer, right? There's some very seductive psychology at work here imo.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Here's an out-there theory; maybe it's nobody?

I'm not saying that everyone's perfect, but Wheeler is angry and frustrated, and it's easy to find faults in others when you feel that way. Maybe he feels like the rest of the team isn't taking this as seriously as he is, and that's a very seductive thing to believe.

Players' hands are always tied in interviews. They can never ever say the team isn't good enough to win. They can never ever say that the coaching isn't up to snuff in any capacity. But you can say that the dressing room as a whole needs to improve, either by listening to the coaches or trying harder or whatever bs they feel like saying that day. Cutting it down to a portion is an easy way of absolving oneself of whatever guilt they might be feel for the losses.

The truth is this team isn't good enough and it has never been good enough, and nothing any of the players do or say can change that. And not being able to say that has got to nag at players. I know it would if it were me.

Just as likely as any of our speculation

 

[surixon]

Interesting.

I have my own theories on what Chevy was trying to accomplish with this year's Jets (don't really feel like sharing them in detail, at least not in this thread), but I wonder if there's a bit a brewing resentment from the veterans over how things have progressed from this past summer onwards.

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts. If you don't want to post here would you mind sending me a PM with them. Thanks!

 

[Howard Chuck]

I think back to the incidents that happened with Kane. None of us knew how bad it had gotten until the trade. Then I had never heard that throughout the time that Kane was here Buff had said they had to trade Kane or him. That was within the past month.

I guess I'm saying that we always hear rumblings but we will never get the whole story until much later. Where there's smoke there's fire.

I just hope that if there are issues internally with the team, that they get rid of anyone not on board so that we can move on.

 

[surixon]

Ladd quitting on a back-check in the Buffalo game that led to a good scoring chance, points me to believe who has checked out.

And I don't blame Ladd for feeling unappreciated, if that's what he's feeling.

There a certain person in the Jets organization who screwed up be even letting this season start with Buff and Ladd's situations unresolved.

Well it seemed to be the common theme with FA's this year. All of LA, Tampa and St. Louis are in the same situation with marquee FA'S so its hardly a Jets only thing. If I remember correctly all are represented by the same agency so perhaps Ladd's representatives are largely to blame for his predicament as well. I am quite happy Chevy didnt give Ladd what he wanted given his year and the fact that the cap is likely going to be lower than the mid term projection. Being in the final year of his deal hasn't hindered Buff so if if Ladd is mopping he needs to try to work through it.

 

[Hhane Snidy]

If he was fired up for free agency, getting sandbagged on the third line doesn't help that notion.

Yeah man I agree. It can't help.

 

[surixon]

Yeah man I agree. It can't help.

Well let's be honest he played the first 30 games on the first line and wasnt performing well enough so he was dropped down to the third. If he has a problem with it he should up his performance to get back to the top line.

 

[Derfel*]

Well let's be honest he played the first 30 games on the first line and wasnt performing well enough so he was dropped down to the third. If he has a problem with it he should up his performance to get back to the top line.

Blake Wheeler - 11 goals, 30 assists
Bryan Little - 14 goals, 21 assists
Mathieu Perreault - 7 goals, 21 assists
Andrew Ladd - 10 goals, 14 assists
Drew Stafford - 14 goals, 10 assists
Dustin Byfuglien - 9 goals, 14 assists
Mark Scheifele - 12 goals, 11 assists
Tyler Myers - 5 goals, 13 assists
Nikolaj Ehlers - 7 goals, 8 assists
Toby Enstrom - 1 goal, 9 assists

 

[Constable]

im 500% sure hutchinson checked out once hellebuyck did well. ladd is just gone, stafford has his moments and stuart checked out in every fashion 2 years ago

 

[Huffer]

Don't confuse talent or even effort for what Wheeler and Little are talking about. Only they know who. I doubt we'll ever find out. But it will be things like:

- Not taking care of fitness
- Not paying attention to new schemes put forward by coaches
- Not paying attention to scouting reports
- Not putting in extra effort during practices

Do we have access to any of this? Not likely. We know Ladd has been in a bit of a funk, but is that related to his surgery? Look at the last game, Wheeler was a mess. It seemed like he was trying too hard and overskating every single puck, then falling down, bobbling it, etc..

I've also said this before. If you want to shake up the team, you trade someone everybody likes.

Agreed. I think there is more of this than just the play on the ice (which is a factor).

In numerous interviews Wheeler has mentioned how he has to approach games / practices / etc. I think his line was something like, I've figured out all the things I need to do to be successful, and if I just concentrate on those things it will work out (or something to that affect).

To me, I hear those words and I'm hearing how Wheeler is talking about being a pro. How he takes care of his body (Nutrition, workouts, sleep, etc). How he approaches practice. How he approaches film study. How he approaches game day prep, etc, etc, etc.

I think there is obviously some play on the ice that isn't up to snuff, but IMO, I think what's really bothering him is that I don't think he's seeing other players on the team take his commitment to being a pro, and doing all the other things you need to do to win as serious as him.

I could easily be 100% wrong here, but if this is indeed the case, it's just another one of many reasons why Wheeler is Captain material IMO.

 

[White Out 403*]

A hockey team is a like a complicated family that lace up skates and hit the ice. Trying to pin point whos to blame for what can be very difficult. The teams issues are clearly identifiable, though. Too many penalties and a terrible penalty kill. Could it be there's a growing frustration on the team with players who are taking stupid and selfish penalties? Maybe the players are tuning out Maurice and there's a pro Mo faction and anti Mo faction. Who knows.

I'd honestly be shocked if it was anything other than players being selfish, and another group who are wanting to put their heads through the wall for shooting this team in the foot so often.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Buff was a key figurehead one way or the other.

 

[KCjetsfan]

Agreed. I think there is more of this than just the play on the ice (which is a factor).

In numerous interviews Wheeler has mentioned how he has to approach games / practices / etc. I think his line was something like, I've figured out all the things I need to do to be successful, and if I just concentrate on those things it will work out (or something to that affect).

To me, I hear those words and I'm hearing how Wheeler is talking about being a pro. How he takes care of his body (Nutrition, workouts, sleep, etc). How he approaches practice. How he approaches film study. How he approaches game day prep, etc, etc, etc.

I think there is obviously some play on the ice that isn't up to snuff, but IMO, I think what's really bothering him is that I don't think he's seeing other players on the team take his commitment to being a pro, and doing all the other things you need to do to win as serious as him.

I could easily be 100% wrong here, but if this is indeed the case, it's just another one of many reasons why Wheeler is Captain material IMO.

/devil's advocate ... if he's figured it all out already, then he's not open to change that's needed. And who's to say his way is right?

It's not like wheeler didn't play like crap the last game, but he's super vocal about 'the room' needing to be better.

/end devils advocate

i think it's just as likely he's frustrated and he's not afraid to say words. that's how he reacts. others react differently. i think what amazingchris posted is probably just as likely as anyone else's thoughts.

 

[surixon]

Blake Wheeler - 11 goals, 30 assists
Bryan Little - 14 goals, 21 assists
Mathieu Perreault - 7 goals, 21 assists
Andrew Ladd - 10 goals, 14 assists
Drew Stafford - 14 goals, 10 assists
Dustin Byfuglien - 9 goals, 14 assists
Mark Scheifele - 12 goals, 11 assists
Tyler Myers - 5 goals, 13 assists
Nikolaj Ehlers - 7 goals, 8 assists
Toby Enstrom - 1 goal, 9 assists

It's not only points. But even if you want to look at points he would be tied for the lowest production for top 6 players as Scheifele was ahead of him prior to being injured. That was with him playing with the two highest point producers on the team and getting first line pp time. I think him getting moved down was justified. In any case he's back in the top 6 with Ehlers and Perrault so I don't really buy the sandbagging theory.

 

[Duke749]

im 500% sure hutchinson checked out once hellebuyck did well. ladd is just gone, stafford has his moments and stuart checked out in every fashion 2 years ago

What in the world makes you come to this conclusion?

 

[Derfel*]

It's not only points. But even if you want to look at points he would be tied for the lowest production for top 6 players as Scheifele was ahead of him prior to being injured. That was with him playing with the two highest point producers on the team and getting first line pp time. I think him getting moved down was justified. In any case he's back in the top 6 with Ehlers and Perrault so I don't really buy the sandbagging theory.

I know it's not only points - but the argument that he was some sort of anchor on the top line isn't supported by the numbers. He's having a "bad year" and he's still in the top 5 for production.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Y'know: it's also likely that Wheels and Little think it's a NUMBER of players that aren't playing up to the appropriate level. Perhaps its 3, 4 or more players that are of concern.

Of course, all of this is incredibly speculative. I feel like I'm talking about my favorite Soap Opera.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Guys who look like they aren't bringing it every night:
Ladd (convinced surgery is a factor)
Lowry
Trouba
Ehlers (may just be a rookie thing - not worried yet)
The PK as a unit. Tough to know how much is a systems/coaching issue and how much is a performance issue.

Buff is borderline some games, but I can't quite bring myself to add him to the list.

There's also other guys who just aren't playing up to expectations (Hutch, Chairot) but I don't think effort/attitude/dedication is the issue.

 

[Analyst365]

im 500% sure hutchinson checked out once hellebuyck did well. ladd is just gone, stafford has his moments and stuart checked out in every fashion 2 years ago

Even at 500% sure I think you're mistaking Hutch checking out with being scared ****less he might have blown his opportunity at an NHL contract. Big difference from those older guys coasting on their banked millions.

 

[PhilJets]

Checked out employee is normal in any company, for the Jets it looks like

Ladd
Byfuglien
Enstrom
Trouba for awhile now


Ladd - I would be if I was him, %#€! Give all you have even before any of the Jets management group came down here, sign. Moderate long term contract. Bust your balls and carry a mediocre team for 5 years. Then you don't get sign because the management is on a tight budget. I don't blMe the management but this was not played good at all. I think Ladd is a very loyal player, and he felt un appreciated. Remember in the first few years Wheeler, was very inconsistent and people here wanted his head. Wheeler is good he is vey vocal, he is also a Jet through and through.
For me Jets are better with both Ladd and Wheeler, they just need more pieces to help them. It's too bad it's a little late for Ladd.

Byfuglien, for a player who is suppose to be A game changer and physical Imposing player. He seems to do it less and less. The type of player he is, I don't expect him to do it 100% of the time, as it is not possible. Heck not even 80-90, but it seems he is not fully engage less than 50% . What carries him now is he is offensively gifted player, he will get his points here and there. And with buff if he does something good or bad, it is usually a big thing.

Enstrom - maybe he needs a change .. Sometimes it is that. He lost his offensive touch 2 years ago.

Trouba - see Buff, I think he is the type of player who wants to be a go to guy. But here currently he is 4th on that lis. So moving Enstrom and Trouba, gives this opportunity to him.


Asa whole, the best to jump up and build confidence to these players is to cheer their names on the ice.
That would be fun and interesting. Chant all the p,ayers name one by one at each part of the game.

 

[blues10]

Seriously though. What has Zinger done since Burrows.

He made sure the Jets hired Claude Noel as the 1st head coach and was instrumental in the selection of Chevy as GM.

Player development wise or amateur scouting wise I don't know but he sure has a big job title.

Craig Heisinger enters his fifth season with the Winnipeg Jets in his role as Senior Vice-President & Director, Hockey Operations/Assistant General Manager. In his role, Heisinger also serves as the General Manager of the Manitoba Moose, the American Hockey League affiliate of the Winnipeg Jets.

He did pose for this.



I suspect Wheeler and Little are calling out some vets that were in Atlanta.

 

[BigZ65]

I know it's not only points - but the argument that he was some sort of anchor on the top line isn't supported by the numbers. He's having a "bad year" and he's still in the top 5 for production.

Given how much PP1 time he's had, it's actually a pathetic level of production. He's absolutely an anchor there.

 

[Daximus]

After watching both Wheeler and Little's interviews it's obvious to me that they are talking about the other veteran "leaders" in the room.
Wheeler has taken over the leadership duties of this core, it's easy to see on the ice and on the bench. The young guys jump on him when he sets them up for a goal, he wears Ehlers face on a shirt. I think we may have a rift in the room and two guys are at the middle of it I think. Ladd and Buff. Ladd has some injury woes, or at least we think that is what it is. If it has to do with his contract situation and he's checking out well then I think we should show him the door. Buff is an absolute game changer, when he feels like it. He took control of the Kane situation but is he checking himself out now?
I think by trading Buff and Ladd we will not only change the locker room atmosphere and team mentality but also the image of this team which is starting to go down the toilet. This team needs to put the past behind it.
Trade Buff and Ladd and give Wheeler the "C" he's earning it.

 

[ATLbound]

I don't think Wheeler or Little would ever call Ladd or Buff out, but I have to think this is at least, directed towards them a little bit. Also I would add Lowry and Enstrom to that list. Pretty clear to me that Wheeler and Little should have letters on this team. Just judging by, on ice play and effort alone.

 

[Jet]

Well then - speculation #1 - it's Myers. The timing of the comment seems tied to his major penalty. Myers isn't buying in, and it's costing the team.

Speculation #2 - Stafford. He's new to the team (mid-season add) and while he's producing recently maybe he isn't "buying in" to the team's needs, or he isn't making enough sacrifices in Wheeler's/Little's eyes.

Speculation #3 - Burmistrov. Comes back to the team with a "new attitude", but doesn't put up numbers and doesn't change his style of play. Biding his time with the team, isn't connecting with his linemates, etc.

(Any of those are about as likely, in my opinion, as any above.)

I doubt it's Myers. Stupid penalty - yes, but he's been playing his best hockey as a Jet of late IMHO

 

[Jet]

Not sure how you "eliminated" everyone else by just saying "no"?

Ladd is tied for 5th in points for the Jets.

It's strange. Ladd is producing well for what he went through over the summer. He also had his strongest game of the season against the Sharks IMHO.

Buff has looked pretty pedestrian the past few games.

Yet Buff gets a firm no and Ladd is blamed.