Who is the Jackets best and worst defenseman and why

[EspenK]

Most game day threads have a D man as a whipping boy. Some hate certain players all the time; others love some all the time. Me? I have trouble distinguishing all the little nuances as to why a guy sucked on a particular play unless they are so egregious (Savard to Iginla) that a blind man could see it.

I have no idea who our best or worse D man is but am curious as to how others view them.

Click to read more...

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Best: Jack Johnson

To me it's not close. Jack is underrated defensively and is good offensively. When he is on he is a top defender in the league. And when he is not he is still very valuable. He has some mind blowing mistakes, but he also does tons of things well.

HM: Fedor Tyutin, David Savard

Worst: Dalton Prout

He's our worst defenseman but that doesn't mean he's bad. He's a good growing player. He had a tough go in Phoenix but prior to that he was playing well. But last year he struggled and has been too on and off for me. He's physical and he's defensively sound most of the time. Little to no offensive game. Still growing.

HM: Jordan Leopold, Cody Goloubef

EDIT: since Blahblah posted a list, I will too..

1. JJ
2. Tyutin
3. Savard
4. Murray
5. Wiz
6. Connauton
7. Leopold
8. Goloubef
9. Prout

 

[blahblah]

My order.

1. JJ
2. Tyutin
3. Wiz
4. Murray (when healthy; but he should move up quickly when he gets in more games)
5. Connauton (still early)
6. Savard
7. Prout

 

[major major]

Best: JJ

Worst: JJ

It depends on the time of year. I'll try to get around to list making later on.

 

[Robert]

My order.

1. JJ
2. Tyutin
3. Wiz
4. Murray (when healthy; but he should move up quickly when he gets in more games)
5. Connauton (still early)
6. Savard
7. Prout

Agree.... JJ might be second but in the end your list nails it..

 

[Viqsi]

In before thebus's inevitable anti-Wiz rant.


Also...
Tyutin
Wisniewski
JJ (normally; #1 when in beastmode)
Murray (on the assumption that he can keep improving)
Savard
Connauton
Prout

 

[Robert]

In before thebus's inevitable anti-Wiz rant.


Also...
Tyutin
Wisniewski
JJ (normally; #1 when in beastmode)
Murray (on the assumption that he can keep improving)
Savard
Connauton
Prout

Wiz ticks me off at times but he'd be on my top three any day.... the dude is a warrior..

 

[NotWendell]

The Best: Tyutin
Witness how much worse the defense is when he's out and how much better it is when he returns.

The Rest (in order):
Johnson
Cotton
Wiz
Murray
Savard
Golobef
Prout

I suspect Leopold would be in between Murray and Savard if he played more often. As it stands, the sample size is too small for me to get a read on him yet.
Wiz is indeed a warrior, but he makes these boneheaded plays that make me crazy! (blind passes, passes in front of our own net, pinching in and leaving us exposed). He'd be much better for us if he played a simpler game. If he could stay healthy, I suspect Murray would be higher on my list.

 

[Robert]

The Best: Tyutin
Witness how much worse the defense is when he's out and how much better it is when he returns.

The Rest (in order):
Johnson
Cotton
Wiz
Murray
Savard
Golobef
Prout

I suspect Leopold would be in between Murray and Savard if he played more often. As it stands, the sample size is too small for me to get a read on him yet.
Wiz is indeed a warrior, but he makes these boneheaded plays that make me crazy! (blind passes, passes in front of our own net, pinching in and leaving us exposed). He'd be much better for us if he played a simpler game. If he could stay healthy, I suspect Murray would be higher on my list.

Both JJ and Wiz take chances, but they are doing so based on NHL experience, they know the game; Savard and Prout on the other hand are not in the same league as those two.

 

[major major]

It's hard to make a list because of inconsistent play, but if I must I'll make a list based on averaging this year's play:

Wiz
What a turnaround. His defensive game has gone from terrifying to abysmal to lukewarm to good. And he's still producing a fair bit despite his shot being slower (broken hand). It's the passing, folks.
Cotton
Small sample size.
Savard
Rarely has a night like in Colorado. Wins his battles, scores goals.
Murray
Based on last year's play, of course.
Tyutin
Consistent D, but his scoring has disappeared.
JJ
He's had 2 bad months and 1 great one, if he keeps up his strong play he'll be at the top of the list by the end of the year.
Leopold
Solid unspectacular play.
Prout
Not smart for the first six weeks or so but he steadily improved. Still a beast, and gets a respectable amount of offense.

I don't think Prout is that bad, and I don't think Wiz is that good, I could see a lot of movement in a ranking of our D as their level of play changes.

 

[major major]

So basically none of us agree on anything besides Prout not being very good.

 

[Cowumbus]

Tyutin +- 3
JJ +-5
Savard +-2
wiz +-3
Cotton +-3
golo +-?
Leopold +-4
Prout +- 3
St Denis +- 1

Murray n/a

How many "spots" they could move up or down max not very consistent

 

[SuperGenius]

So basically none of us agree on anything besides Prout not being very good.

I don't see many people saying that. Ranking him last does not mean he sucks and a few people went on to explain that - even you

Every time I try to make a list, I get caught between weight offensive and defensive abilities. Prout is at the end of many lists and Connauton is above, yet I think Prout is better at actually defending while Connauton is much better at offensive ability and speed. You'd never ask one to play the other's role, so it's hard for me to rank them in a way I feel is fair.

Overall, I guess my list, and even my reasons are most closest to yours (Major's). The order and the reasoning is pretty sound, IMO. I might put JJ higher and Connauton lower, but I can go with what you wrote just as well.

 

[Zarathustra]

1: Johnson - We were horrid defensively when he wasn't in the line up.
2: Savard - I remember getting into lots of debates when Moore was a regular when I said that Savard would turn out to be better. He's improved even over last season
3. Wisniewski
4. Tyutin - Probably the most consistent.
4. Cotton - probably Jarmo's best move this season was picking this guy up.
5. Golo - I hope we hang onto him.
6. Prout - Never been a huge fan.
7. Leopold - Okay for depth


n/a Murray - hasn't played this season. Think he will be really good if he can put injuries behind him, but I still think we should've picked up Galchenyuk.

 

[thebus2288*]

On a good day:

1. JJ
2. Murray
3. Savard
4. Tyutin
5. Cotton
6. Wiz
7. Prout
8. Golobeuf
9. Leopold

On a bad day:

1. Savard
2. Murray
3. Tyutin
4. JJ
5. Cotton
6. Prout
7. Golobeuf
8. Leopold
9. Wiz

Some of the "hate" now for Savard makes the stuff I say about the Great Blueline Bobble Warrior seem irrelevant. What hockey games have you been watching the last 20 months? Savard has had the least amount of defensive breakdowns or bad giveways back there in recent memory. It was 1 game. Practically 1 play. Wiz makes that pass and has that type of game double digit times a year. Fact.

I think its interesting how much different these lists are person by person.

 

[thebus2288*]

In before thebus's inevitable anti-Wiz rant.


Also...
Tyutin
Wisniewski
JJ (normally; #1 when in beastmode)
Murray (on the assumption that he can keep improving)
Savard
Connauton
Prout

Only Wennberg n Friedrich(no reason Wiz at 3 tho? just cuz?) have "reasonable" lists up till this point. Even without the "anti-wiz rant" attack I can honestly say this is probably the worst so far.

No way should Wiz ever be ahead of Johnson, Tyutin, Savard or Murray.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So basically none of us agree on anything besides Prout not being very good.

I like Prout, especially given the makeup of the rest of the blueline. I would say he's better than not-very-good. While that might not seem like a ringing endorsement, it merely points out that not even all of us agree on that.

Prout, like the rest of the team's defenders, is up-and-down. List could change game-to-game, or at least week-to-week. No way I'm going to make a list. I might offer as brief thought on each player, maybe alphabetically.

Jack Johnson is the best. He might not always play the best, but he is the best.

 

[DarkandStormy]

D is just inconsistent from game to game, week to week.

Wiz is our #5 Dman. Is he the 5th best? Well, when you're ranking it depends on what you're looking for. He's one of our top two OFFENSIVE defensemen, but his play lacks in his own zone. So if you're criteria is taking everything into account, it's hard to say - i.e. can offensive value offset defensive deficiencies?

On any given night:
1) Tyutin - most reliable, imo. nothing too flashy
2) JJ - can be wildly inconsistent, otherwise #1
3) Savard - half a dozen goals and playing against top lines defensively
4) Connauton - based on limited sample size. basically supplying the offense expected from Wiz and better on the back end
5) Leopold - similar to Tyutin, quiet and steady
6) Wiz - offense lacking a bit this year, probably due to injuries. Lots of dumb mistakes and poor skating in own end. Could jump up here soon now that he's back to better health
7) Goloubef - has played well when given time, but another small sample size
8) Prout - nothing offensively and a bit slow defensively as well. Still learning/growing, but often a liability on the blue line

Murray - N/A Where he was projected to be when healthy? Probably top 2/3 this year. But we just don't know at this point so he's off the board.

 

[Inquiring Minds]

Every time I try to make a list, I get caught between weight offensive and defensive abilities. Prout is at the end of many lists and Connauton is above, yet I think Prout is better at actually defending while Connauton is much better at offensive ability and speed. You'd never ask one to play the other's role, so it's hard for me to rank them in a way I feel is fair.

Shouldn't you also rank Dmen in consideration of where they are playing, just like you do with forwards? For forwards, you don't expect the same things from the first line that you do with the "energy" line. Third line as the "grinder" line, so you won't expect them to be generating as much offense.

So, first pairing should be going against the top offensive threats of the opponents, correct? Does that make them the "shutdown" dmen?
Is the third pairing the equivalent of the "grinders"?

So many things to take into account.

Also, a prized virtue is anyone who stands up for his teammates and will drop the gloves. Or the tough guy, who makes every opponent pay a price for standing too long in front of the crease.

Finally, there's the "steadying" effect - the dman who is so good that anyone who plays with him looks better. Murray is one. Tyutin is like that at times. Hjeda was the best. I called him Bacon, cause everything is better with bacon.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Good post, IM.

 

[Derby]

I guess I think of it in relation to how the coaches demonstrate confidence in the Dmen. Considering that JJ logs HUGE minutes against the best, he'd be tied at the top of my list with Tyutin who plays in every 3 on 5 situation we face. Also, when Tyutin is healthy we are better, so there is that.

 

[Nordique]

JJ-Wiz-Tyuts are the best on this squad, each for his own reasons.

The others are fair NHL level dmen and I can't say 1 stands out as the worst. I don't feel we have a "bad" dman on the squad.

Murray, is somewhere between the top 3 and the rest, but the injuries are troubling given his young age.

 

[Xoggz22]

I go with JJ as the best. I've tried to pay a little more attention to who plays forward when he is on the ice. It seems he spends a lot of time with the 4th line when they play. Given how little I think we have gotten from our 4th like, not just points, the tells me HCTR also sees him as our best option. Plays in all situations and certainly has the ability to impact a game in a dominant fashion. He still can make our own zone an adventure but I love having him on our team.

I'm not a Prout fan but think he has regressed this year. Has some intangibles I liked but I am not a fan of his game this year. I also cringe with Wiz in our zone our skating the puck but he has been better. He misses Murray I think.

 

[Fro]

I think this is as close to how I'd rank them...probably flip Savard and JJ just b/c I feel Savard has been more consistent vs JJ the last couple years.

D is just inconsistent from game to game, week to week.

Wiz is our #5 Dman. Is he the 5th best? Well, when you're ranking it depends on what you're looking for. He's one of our top two OFFENSIVE defensemen, but his play lacks in his own zone. So if you're criteria is taking everything into account, it's hard to say - i.e. can offensive value offset defensive deficiencies?

On any given night:
1) Tyutin - most reliable, imo. nothing too flashy
2) JJ - can be wildly inconsistent, otherwise #1
3) Savard - half a dozen goals and playing against top lines defensively
4) Connauton - based on limited sample size. basically supplying the offense expected from Wiz and better on the back end
5) Leopold - similar to Tyutin, quiet and steady
6) Wiz - offense lacking a bit this year, probably due to injuries. Lots of dumb mistakes and poor skating in own end. Could jump up here soon now that he's back to better health
7) Goloubef - has played well when given time, but another small sample size
8) Prout - nothing offensively and a bit slow defensively as well. Still learning/growing, but often a liability on the blue line

Murray - N/A Where he was projected to be when healthy? Probably top 2/3 this year. But we just don't know at this point so he's off the board.

 

[MoeBartoli]

My order.

1. JJ
2. Tyutin
3. Wiz
4. Murray (when healthy; but he should move up quickly when he gets in more games)
5. Connauton (still early)
6. Savard
7. Prout

Looks pretty good to me, Blah. Anxious to see how Connauton performs over time and evaluate Murray over an extended period