Prospect Info: Who is the Blues’ #13 Prospect?

[STL fan in MN]

Michael Buchinger takes the 12th spot. Will the run of d-men continue?

1. Dalibor Dvorsky (89.8%)
2. Jimmy Snuggerud (48.8%)
3. Theo Lindstein (73.1%)
4. Adam Jiricek (41.2%)
5. Zack Bolduc (65.2%)
6. Otto Stenberg (94.4%)
7. Juraj Pekarcik (35.5%)
8. Matt Kessel (58.8%)
9. Zach Dean (77.9%)
10. Vadim Zherenko (40.0%)
11. Lukas Fischer (39.3%)
12. Michael Buchinger (48.3%)
13. ?

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[Bluesnatic27]

Kos again. Is the best skater on the list and has a skillset that will allow him a better chance to succeed in the NHL.

After that, I’d probably go Koromyslov, Burns, and then Kaskimaki.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I’m going Ralph here. I was impressed with my viewing at prospect camp quickly closing gaps, skating, and first pass. Excellent season at a hockey mill for college prospects. I see all the potential for a future top 4 minutes muncher.

So question…. We want to rank Jiricek very high (-10 in 19 games. Worst on team was -14 in 52 games) and question Ralph’s talent and level of play as Shattucks top player. Which program has produced more NHL prospects? Shattuck St Mary’s or HC Plzen? Not to say juniors won’t aid in Jiriceks development or college in Ralph’s

 

[Reality Czech]

I’m going Ralph here. I was impressed with my viewing at prospect camp quickly closing gaps, skating, and first pass. Excellent season at a hockey mill for college prospects. I see all the potential for a future top 4 minutes muncher.

So question…. We want to rank Jiricek very high (-10 in 19 games. Worst on team was -14 in 52 games) and question Ralph’s talent and level of play. Which program has produced more NHL prospects? Shattuck St Mary’s or HC Plzen?

Apples and oranges. Not sure how you can compare the two programs and honestly the program doesn't even matter that much. Using Jiricek's +/- while playing bottom pair minutes in an adult league at the age of 18 doesn't really prove anything. There was consensus among scouts and experts that Jiricek was a first round prospect while Ralph was projected to go 2nd round, so there must be a good reason for that.

That being said, if we've found a diamond in the rough with Ralph then that's fantastic but as others have said in previous threads judging a guy based on his performance at prospect camp is risky. Could he end up exceeding his draft projections? Absolutely but let's wait and see what happens before comparing him to Jiricek or anyone else. I did vote for Ralph by the way and the more I hear about him, the more I like the pick. I don't know that people are questioning Ralph as much as we have little info on him right now.

 

[Celtic Note]

I’m going Ralph here. I was impressed with my viewing at prospect camp quickly closing gaps, skating, and first pass. Excellent season at a hockey mill for college prospects. I see all the potential for a future top 4 minutes muncher.

So question…. We want to rank Jiricek very high (-10 in 19 games. Worst on team was -14 in 52 games) and question Ralph’s talent and level of play as Shattucks top player. Which program has produced more NHL prospects? Shattuck St Mary’s or HC Plzen? Not to say juniors won’t aid in Jiriceks development or college in Ralph’s

Are you saying that a high school team is superior development path over a men’s pro league team?

 

[ExtremeColdWeather]

Burns again

 

[STL fan in MN]

Going with Ralph here. There was a good article on him in the PD a few days ago if anyone missed it. Ralph article

A bit of a projection but this is about where I currently value him. Burns, P. Fischer and Kos right there in the same tier IMO.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I’ll note that starting tomorrow I’m going to be middle of BFE Minnesota without cell reception for a few days. So if someone else wants to do Poll 14, go for it. Otherwise, I’ll get to it when I get back on Monday.

 

[542365]

I’m going Ralph here. I was impressed with my viewing at prospect camp quickly closing gaps, skating, and first pass. Excellent season at a hockey mill for college prospects. I see all the potential for a future top 4 minutes muncher.

So question…. We want to rank Jiricek very high (-10 in 19 games. Worst on team was -14 in 52 games) and question Ralph’s talent and level of play as Shattucks top player. Which program has produced more NHL prospects? Shattuck St Mary’s or HC Plzen? Not to say juniors won’t aid in Jiriceks development or college in Ralph’s

No clue what point you're trying to make here. The Czech league has dozens of former NHLers, and every player in the league is a professional who use hockey to provide for their families. Ralph played against literal children at 6'4 220 pounds. If he has any talent at all he better be able to dominate. Didn't exactly wow in his two games in a real junior league either.

 

[Majorityof1]

So question…. We want to rank Jiricek very high (-10 in 19 games. Worst on team was -14 in 52 games) and question Ralph’s talent and level of play as Shattucks top player. Which program has produced more NHL prospects? Shattuck St Mary’s or HC Plzen? Not to say juniors won’t aid in Jiriceks development or college in Ralph’s

This is just an epically bad take. Even if you end up right about Ralph v Jiricek, the logic is mind-boggling bad comparing plus-minus not only across different teams, or even across different keagues but across different age groups. How could this 17 year old fair worse in a highly team dependant stat against adults on a bad team than this 17 year old against 15 year olds on an elite team? Ummm, that is kind of expected.

How can we rate Matthew Mayich so low? He had better point per game and a better plus minus than Parayko last year? Forget making Mayich our #1 prospect. He should be our #1 D right? He had a better +/- in the OHL than Parayko had in the NHL.

 

[ezcreepin]

I begrudgingly went Ralph here. Not because I don't think he can develop into a guy, but because there are a lot of players like him in our system with tools and it's a matter of can they grow into the player we think they can be. Inarguably Ralph has the size and he can skate perfectly fine which is a plus. He scored at a high clip (granted HS) and scouts apparently saw something in that despite what some would consider weaker competition. I saw a little bit of him in the tourney and his defense looked fine against his peers, but I haven't seen him in competitive games yet so take that with a grain of salt. The last thing that I give a bit of credence to is that the Blues were high on him, and more so compared to Fischer. I think that says something about the player.

At this point in the rankings, I'm now going on potential almost exclusively. I debated going with Mrsic since he arguably has one of the best shots in the draft and he could make it as a good scoring depth winger while the others I'm not confident about. Lots of defenseman who are interchangeable in style or potential. Loof and MAG are already in the AHL, but they need to set themselves apart before I'm ready to take them more seriously. Kos, Susuyev, and Jecho are all interesting in their own right in terms of specific skills, but I'd have to do more research on them to know how I stack them up.

 

[kimzey59]

I'm going with Ralph but admittedly it's more about wishful thinking than it is actual viewings.
He's got the tools to be something special. We'll have to see if he can actually put everything together.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Kos for me here. Ralph has the higher ceiling but can he put it all together and develop into an NHLer? I think Kos ends up being a solid bottom-6 winger for us for years. Ralph will likely be #14 for me.

 

[LoneRangerNHL]

I asked my dog and he said Ralph.

 

[sfvega]

I’m going Ralph here. I was impressed with my viewing at prospect camp quickly closing gaps, skating, and first pass. Excellent season at a hockey mill for college prospects. I see all the potential for a future top 4 minutes muncher.

So question…. We want to rank Jiricek very high (-10 in 19 games. Worst on team was -14 in 52 games) and question Ralph’s talent and level of play as Shattucks top player. Which program has produced more NHL prospects? Shattuck St Mary’s or HC Plzen? Not to say juniors won’t aid in Jiriceks development or college in Ralph’s

To me it's a bit of both. I do think Jiricek is overrated, as we covered pre-draft. I think if we nailed the trade up with Minny and got Buium, a good number of people would be happy with having gone away from Jiricek who are now trying to talk themselves into his ceiling.

Where as with Ralph, I think he was also overdrafted but is a very intriguing prospect. He's in a weird spot because of the risk involved that is entirely on the FO. Ralph, as the same player, would be seen as a probable steal in the late 3rd. But drafting him with the earlier 2nd put some undue criticism on him. I think taking him over better prospects put him in a bad spot, the same way if we had traded up to 12 and taken Jiricek would have for him.

Ralph for me here, and I think he's fairly valued here. Tough to project, because he's gonna be a longer-term prospect.

 

[sfvega]

I asked my dog and he said Ralph.

 

[Majorityof1]

To me it's a bit of both. I do think Jiricek is overrated, as we covered pre-draft. I think if we nailed the trade up with Minny and got Buium, a good number of people would be happy with having gone away from Jiricek who are now trying to talk themselves into his ceiling.

The bolded makes no sense. If we could manage to trade Robert Thomas for Connor McDavid, a good number of people would be happy. Does that mean Thomas sucks? That's a bit of reducto ad absurdum, but it hopefully illustrates the point that prefering a better player does not mean the less prefered one is bad. People thought Buium was more certain. That doesn't mean Jiricek is a bad prospect, just that people thin Buium is a better one. Buium isn't in our system so its moot.

If we had taken Ralph at 16 and passed on Jiricek, people would be furuious. That is an actual comparison between our own prospects.

Also, a lot of people voted for Jiricek in the pre-draft poll. So let's not act like people are only recognizing his ceiling due to us drafting him. I specifically addressed his ceiling:

Went Jiricek but wouldn't argue Hage or Stolberg. I went Jiricek because I think he could have a bit more hidden potential. Given how the board went, I am willing to gamble here that his game will grow. He is one of the youngest in the draft class and has missed a lot of time. I like how he defends the rush aggressively, reminds me of Faulk's best defensive attribute. He has a good, strong transitional passing. He has good mobility, although its a bit awkward. I think it could get even better with work. I think with improved skating, improved coaching on some decision making, and some more strength, he can have a higher ceiling than some of the safer picks.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

The bolded makes no sense. If we could manage to trade Robert Thomas for Connor McDavid, a good number of people would be happy. Does that mean Thomas sucks? That's a bit of reducto ad absurdum, but it hopefully illustrates the point that prefering a better player does not mean the less prefered one is bad. People thought Buium was more certain. That doesn't mean Jiricek is a bad prospect, just that people thin Buium is a better one. Buium isn't in our system so its moot.

If we had taken Ralph at 16 and passed on Jiricek, people would be furuious. That is an actual comparison between our own prospects.

Also, a lot of people voted for Jiricek in the pre-draft poll. So let's not act like people are only recognizing his ceiling due to us drafting him. I specifically addressed his ceiling:

It is your post doesn't make any sense.

 

[Memento]

Voted Susuyev again.

The problem I have with Ralph is that he's a very old and mature eighteen-year-old who dominated a place like Shattuck's that simply isn't the USHL or even anything like it. I have issues with high schoolers like that being drafted that highly; for every T.J. Oshie, there's a Sam Kurker or Max Gardiner. I'd like to see how he does in the USHL before I place him too highly. Susuyev, while he has his flaws, has at least had time in the KHL, and I like his potential as a top-six winger - of course, if everything goes right for him, development-wise.

 

[sfvega]

The bolded makes no sense. If we could manage to trade Robert Thomas for Connor McDavid, a good number of people would be happy. Does that mean Thomas sucks? That's a bit of reducto ad absurdum, but it hopefully illustrates the point that prefering a better player does not mean the less prefered one is bad. People thought Buium was more certain. That doesn't mean Jiricek is a bad prospect, just that people thin Buium is a better one. Buium isn't in our system so its moot.

If we had taken Ralph at 16 and passed on Jiricek, people would be furuious. That is an actual comparison between our own prospects.

Also, a lot of people voted for Jiricek in the pre-draft poll. So let's not act like people are only recognizing his ceiling due to us drafting him. I specifically addressed his ceiling:

I think that you were more focused on the fact that I said something negative about Jiricek and to remind people of your opinion than you were focused on what I was actually saying. No snark, seriously. I never said Jiricek sucks. I don't think anyone would be happy to go away from Thomas but would understand the obvious upgrade because McDavid is a proven superstar. Buium and Jiricek have years to progress, and D progression isn't linear. It's not apples to apples. One is is known quantity. The point is that Jiricek got a bit of a mixed reaction when Buium would have been universally praised, and Ralph was in a scenario where he was seen as a reach over further along, more well-rounded, SAFER guys. I think the FO made people have higher expectations on Ralph by taking him a tier above where he probably should have gone, which is why I brought up Buium (a clear first tier D) vs. Jiricek (a true 2nd tier D with Solberg, etc.) I think Ralph around mid-late 3rd would be a steal, but taking him over someone like Pulkkinen puts pressure on him to be an impact guy on a timeline where as someone like Kos can develop in his own time.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Voted Susuyev again.

The problem I have with Ralph is that he's a very old and mature eighteen-year-old who dominated a place like Shattuck's that simply isn't the USHL or even anything like it. I have issues with high schoolers like that being drafted that highly; for every T.J. Oshie, there's a Sam Kurker or Max Gardiner. I'd like to see how he does in the USHL before I place him too highly. Susuyev, while he has his flaws, has at least had time in the KHL, and I like his potential as a top-six winger - of course, if everything goes right for him, development-wise.

You may be right about Suuyev. I get that you value upside, but there is a point where it's less real potential than it is a lottery ticket. I could win $100 million at Power Ball but almost certainly won't. How would you value that ticket?

I don't think we really expect Ralph to be our next Parayko, great as that would be. but doesn't seem a stretch to envision him as next Edmundson, Seems to me that a player like that would be worth quite a bit more than the $2 I was charged by the guy at the gas station.

 

[HighNote]

This is the point where I don't know enough about the rest of these players to feel comfortable voting. So I will leave it up to you guys.

 

[Celtic Note]

This is the point where I don't know enough about the rest of these players to feel comfortable voting. So I will leave it up to you guys.

That’s where I am at. I am still trying to understand what we have in our new guys.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Are you saying that a high school team is superior development path over a men’s pro league team?

Not at all. When your alumni are Sidney Crosby, Jonathon Toews, Clayton Keller and recently Macklin Celebrini, Cole Eiserman, and Scott Morrow….i think it is a little bit better than your normal high school team. If you are their #1 d man, then you are probably a very talented player. Shattuck goes back to the 80s when Herb Brooks ran hockey schools out of there. Probably one of the best springboards for US hockey in the country. I’m sure their alumni hockey team would stack up to most junior teams though their level of play is less.

This is similarly comparing to CBC or DeSmet recruiting the best in St. Louis area as Shattuck gets the best in the US and beyond.

 

[Celtic Note]

Not at all. When your alumni are Sidney Crosby, Jonathon Toews, Clayton Keller and recently Macklin Celebrini, Cole Eiserman, and Scott Morrow….i think it is a little bit better than your normal high school team. If you are their #1 d man, then you are probably a very talented player. Shattuck goes back to the 80s when Herb Brooks ran hockey schools out of there. Probably one of the best springboards for US hockey in the country. I’m sure their alumni hockey team would stack up to most junior teams though their level of play is less.

This is similarly comparing to CBC or DeSmet recruiting the best in St. Louis area as Shattuck gets the best in the US and beyond.

I understand that Shattuck is one of the best in HS, kind of like Chicago Steel is one of the best in USHL. What I am not following is how the comparison between a HS team and a Pro team tracks.