News Article: Who is the best goalie in the NHL? Hint...he plays for the Rangers...

Galchenioretty

Galchenyuk 1 G in last 18 playoff Gs
Oct 18, 2009
2,027
47
Canada
Price's season last year was overrated historically but he was still full value for all of his awards.

As for who's better now between Price and Lundqvist, pretty reasonable arguments both ways. Lundqvist has been the most consistently dominate goalie since he's been in the league but he's also 33 now and Price has outplayed him the last 2 regular seasons. Not impossible that Hank's peak has passed and while he's still great, he's not quite the best anymore.
 

Kane One

Registered User
Feb 6, 2010
43,848
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Brooklyn, New NY
If this is your argument you should probably just stop now. 197 starts. 53 starts. Seems comparable.

So the only reason he should be ranked so high is his save percentage? Having .920+ save percentages are looking less impressive than they used to since every decent goalie in the league does it.
 

nevesis

#30
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Jan 3, 2008
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No mentions of Bobrovsky? Quick not being in the Top 10 best NHL goaltenders?

It's hard to respect some opinions when they reach levels of absurdity only seen here at HF.
 

DanielBrassard

It's all so tiresome
May 6, 2014
23,727
22,659
PA from SI
No mentions of Bobrovsky? Quick not being in the Top 10 best NHL goaltenders?

It's hard to respect some opinions when they reach levels of absurdity only seen here at HF.

Quick has had 1 year of over a .918. How is he top-10? And Bob is in the 6-10 range for me.
 

nevesis

#30
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No according to him Quick is one of the best goalies in the league because he has great technique even though that tremendous technique somehow does not coincide with consistently putting up great numbers.

Quick has played 7 years. Two of them were bad (09-10 and 12-13), two were marginally above average (08-09, 13-14), two were good (10-11,14-15), and one he transformed into Hasek (11-12). Likewise he has had one horrible playoffs (09-10), two averageish playoffs (10-11, 13-14), and two unreal good playoffs (11-12, 12-13). He's up there for most overrated player in the league.

Schneider is pretty significantly better than Quick.

You're basing your entire opinion on statistics without even realizing that a goaltenders statistics are directly affected by events he has no control over.

You should really read this article:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=744483

Analytics and advanced statistics have boomed in popularity across the NHL during the past couple seasons, with more and more stories either dedicated to or including shot-based numbers such as Corsi and Fenwick as indicators of puck possession as well as predictors of success for teams and players.

So what about the goaltenders? Are there metrics suitable for evaluating them?

In a perfect world there would be some kind of goaltender rating which factors in everything, similar to the quarterback rating used in the NFL.

In reality, as Columbus Blue Jackets goaltending coach Ian Clark once explained, the position may be too dynamic for one definitive statistical measure because there are so many outside variables which can affect each goalie's statistical performance.

"Goalies react to the hand dealt to them; they don't get to control play," Clark said. "Unlike a quarterback or a pitcher, who gets to control and dictate the play, goaltenders are recipients of the play, and as such there is a huge impact on how the team plays in front of them and statistical outcomes.

"Sergei Bobrovsky, Henrik Lundqvist and Tuukka Rask all face completely different things and have no control over it, whereas Peyton Manning controls what is going on over his playing surface when he lines up behind the ball. That affects statistics, and that is one of the reasons goaltending is a bit of an anomaly when it comes to using pure numbers."

Goaltending does not exist in a vacuum. Team play is a part of every goalie's success, and the biggest factor in success is the quality of shots faced.

Traditional statistics treat every shot the same, but you don't have to be a goalie to know there's a difference between an unscreened wrist shot from the point, a one-timer in the slot, and a backdoor tap-in.

Quantifying the differences is key. Some newer goaltending statistics try to factor in quality using shot distance or by grading shots from within a "home plate" area in front of the net, but former New York Rangers goalie Steve Valiquette doesn't think it's enough.

"It's not about location, it's not about distance from net, forget all that," Valiquette said. "It's about the sequence....continued

To even remotely think that Jonathan Quick is one of the most overrated players in the league is beyond comprehension. He's just as elite as Price, Lundqvist, or Rask in technique and ability.
 

SA16

Sixstring
Aug 25, 2006
13,909
13,649
Long Island
Quick's career SV% is .915 and his backups career SV% is .914. These are guys on the same team as him. Players such as Martin Jones, Jonathan Bernier, Ben Scrivens, Jason LaBarbera and Erik Ersberg.

Additionally most of what that article says in nonsense. Longterm most of that stuff evens out. The chance that in 400 career starts and over 10,000 shots faced that Quick has faced significantly more "bad luck" or events he couldn't control compared to other goalies is very low.

Arguing that players are elite based on technique/ability doesn't really make sense. It all gets reflected in different numbers. It's like saying Nathan Eovaldi is elite because he he has great ability with his 96.5 MPH fastball even though in his entire career he has never even put up a league average strikeout rate. The only thing it does matter for is it could be indicative of potential to improve and put up better future performance.
 

Bleed Ranger Blue

Registered User
Jul 18, 2006
19,799
1,811
Quick has had 1 year of over a .918. How is he top-10? And Bob is in the 6-10 range for me.

2 Cups bro.

1 where he played out of his mind, and 1 where he was rather pedestrian.

Thats what some people remember over years and years of sustained excellent, unfortunately.
 

Fitzy

Very Stable Genius
Jan 29, 2009
35,732
23,019
2 Cups bro.

1 where he played out of his mind, and 1 where he was rather pedestrian.

Thats what some people remember over years and years of sustained excellent, unfortunately.

The Eli Manning argument.

Quick is probably top 10, but certainly not top 5.
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
53,866
27,721
New Jersey
duh.gif
 

nevesis

#30
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Jan 3, 2008
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Quote me on this. Henrik Lundqvist is going to have a monster season. Not only has he been working out a ton this offseason, but with the new Bauer OD1N gear he's wearing is allowing for him to be more quicker/agile than ever. Mix that with his anger at losing, and insane desire to win plus a great team in front of him.

You're going to see him at the top of the league once again.




11925803_530192070466756_1373104444_n.jpg
 

nyrleetch

Registered User
Aug 2, 2009
7,757
702
New York
Quote me on this. Henrik Lundqvist is going to have a monster season. Not only has he been working out a ton this offseason, but with the new Bauer OD1N gear he's wearing is allowing for him to be more quicker/agile than ever. Mix that with his anger at losing, and insane desire to win plus a great team in front of him.

You're going to see him at the top of the league once again.




11925803_530192070466756_1373104444_n.jpg



But did his pads get any bigger?!
 

nyrleetch

Registered User
Aug 2, 2009
7,757
702
New York
I live in Montreal now. Actually, I live in the same town Carey Price does. Candiac. A town 20 minutes outside of the city. When he tweeted about his lost dogs, I witnessed an entire town go nuts to find them. I went to the same school his gf did. I've seen him around town. When I met my gf 7 years ago, she had a Carey Price poster on her wall. Seriously.

For me, CP is everywhere and I hear about him all the time. All of my friends here are Habs fans. Diehards. So I really get what you're saying. Part of me would be amused, and I know Hank is King...

But the flipside is that he's a really decent dude who's likely going to be the next king. His season was phenomenal and really fun to watch. I have no trouble with him repeating it, or setting records. It's good sport. So long as we never lose to them in the playoffs.

:laugh:

I am picturing a scene for a movie, when they're searching for someone. :laugh:

Glad they found his dogs!
 

Chaels Arms

Formerly Lias Andersson
Aug 26, 2010
7,403
7,094
New York City
Henrik is a beast. I'm going to be so sad when he retires. I was a little too young to be fully invested in the '94 team so, for me, Henrik is the seminal Rangers player. We need to get him a Cup.
 

Jabroni

The People's Champ
Jun 1, 2008
7,526
173
Quote me on this. Henrik Lundqvist is going to have a monster season. Not only has he been working out a ton this offseason, but with the new Bauer OD1N gear he's wearing is allowing for him to be more quicker/agile than ever. Mix that with his anger at losing, and insane desire to win plus a great team in front of him.

You're going to see him at the top of the league once again.




11925803_530192070466756_1373104444_n.jpg


The gear looks beautiful. Looking forward to seeing it with the home and away jerseys.
 

Machinehead

HFNYR MVP
Jan 21, 2011
147,980
126,769
NYC
You're basing your entire opinion on statistics without even realizing that a goaltenders statistics are directly affected by events he has no control over.

You keep trumpeting this, but it's been proven that defense has no effect on sv%.
 

Steve Kournianos

@thedraftanalyst
In no order, if I'm building a team:

Lundqvist
Price
Schneider
Rask
Holtby
Rinne
Bobrovsky
Dubnyuk
Varlamov

Those are 9 guys I take ahead of Quick, who really struggled with consistency last year.

I can very easily see Quick not be in the top-10. Crawford, MAF (who was excellent last year) and maybe Bishop can duke it out with Quick for 10th.
 

Hi ImHFNYR

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
7,173
3,087
Wherever I'm standing atm
You keep trumpeting this, but it's been proven that defense has no effect on sv%.

Teams that consistently give up breakaways, PP's and odd man rushes don't affect a goalies numbers....at all? Especially compared to teams that rarely do those things, clear the zone effectively and drastically limit scoring opportunities? I don't know what study you're referencing but if it concluded that D has no effect at all then it was completely wrong. If it argued that over a larger sample size numbers evened out for the most part even with bad D vs good D I'd still have a hard time buying it but the idea that the impact would be lessened with a larger sample size makes some sense...except for the winning part.
 

Benning

Registered User
Jan 4, 2005
75
5
Hey Guys! Habs fan here. Just for argument sake, let's say Hank was Careys's age. You had had to pick one going further, which would you choose?
Homer choice for myself but with the King a close second given his consistency and PO performance. How about you guys? Any of you feel Carey's got more of an upside?
 

Raspewtin

Stay at home defenseman hater
May 30, 2013
43,642
20,081
You keep trumpeting this, but it's been proven that defense has no effect on sv%.

Which either way......Quick has the luxury of playing in front of the best defensive team in the NHL over the last 4 years.
 

Raspewtin

Stay at home defenseman hater
May 30, 2013
43,642
20,081
Teams that consistently give up breakaways, PP's and odd man rushes don't affect a goalies numbers....at all? Especially compared to teams that rarely do those things, clear the zone effectively and drastically limit scoring opportunities? I don't know what study you're referencing but if it concluded that D has no effect at all then it was completely wrong. If it argued that over a larger sample size numbers evened out for the most part even with bad D vs good D I'd still have a hard time buying it but the idea that the impact would be lessened with a larger sample size makes some sense...except for the winning part.

I highly doubt there are NHL teams that give up odd man rushes frequently enough to have considerable long term effects on SV%. The hallmark of bad defensive teams tends to be terrible offensive zone pressure, and inability to relieve pressure in their own end.

This is the article he was referring to I think (there are several)

http://hockey-graphs.com/2014/07/07...-no-sustainable-control-over-save-percentage/
 

donpaulo

Capt Barry Beck
May 19, 2003
1,729
40
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www.billcorfield.com
Price had an amazing season no doubt about that. So did Holtby.

Until either make it to the finals there is little choice other than Hank out of the east anyway.

Of course we should add Quick into the discussion who is about the same age as Price but with a significantly better body of work.
 

SA16

Sixstring
Aug 25, 2006
13,909
13,649
Long Island
This is one thing I just can't wrap my head around.

I don't think it's been proven one way or another. I'm pretty sure just so far no evidence has been found to say that defenseman do have an effect on goalies save percentage but that's not to say that evidence can't be found in the future.
 

nevesis

#30
Sponsor
Jan 3, 2008
35,953
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NY
I don't think it's been proven one way or another. I'm pretty sure just so far no evidence has been found to say that defenseman do have an effect on goalies save percentage but that's not to say that evidence can't be found in the future.

This is proof that you and Machinehead either didn't read that article or you both have an inability to understand a simple concept.

Posting the link again. Take your time, read it thoroughly. You just might learn something new about the game we all love.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=744483
 

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