Who is the 15th best player so far in the 21st Century?

Who is the 15th best player so far in the 21st Century?

  • Lundqvist

    Votes: 7 7.2%
  • Bergeron

    Votes: 9 9.3%
  • Price

    Votes: 11 11.3%
  • Luongo

    Votes: 4 4.1%
  • Stamkos

    Votes: 4 4.1%
  • Jagr

    Votes: 5 5.2%
  • Kopitar

    Votes: 7 7.2%
  • Draisaitl

    Votes: 16 16.5%
  • Keith

    Votes: 15 15.5%
  • Hedman

    Votes: 3 3.1%
  • Doughty

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Iginla

    Votes: 4 4.1%
  • MSL

    Votes: 2 2.1%
  • Matthews

    Votes: 3 3.1%
  • Vasilevskiy

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Quick

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • MAF

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Makar

    Votes: 3 3.1%
  • Hossa

    Votes: 3 3.1%

  • Total voters
    97

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
42,045
18,578
Mulberry Street
But hasn't Pittsburgh pretty much been a top-heavy team for the duration of Fleury's tenure there? Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Jordan Staal for a while, and a revolving cast of others. I think Fleury definitely deserves credit for those wins as a major goaltending stat.

MAF wouldn't have the same amount of wins or anywhere close to that number had he spent most of his career on a team like the Coyotes.

Top heavy or not, the Penguins won a bunch of games because of Sid and Geno. Not because of MAF. It's not a coincidence they flopped in the playoffs from 2010-2015 and then won back to back cups when he was replaced by Matt Murray. Heck, their deepest run in that time frame was 2013 and that was when Vokoun replaced him in the playoffs.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
42,045
18,578
Mulberry Street
Ok and price has a Hart and Ted Lindsay. Hank has neither

... Hank was justa s good in 2012 as Price was in 2015. Price had the benefit of league wide scoring tanking that year and the Art Ross winner finishing with less than 90 points.

Price could've had the exact same season in 2014 or 2016, he doesn't win the Hart or Pearson either year.
 

HabzSauce

Registered User
Jun 10, 2022
1,733
2,380
... Hank was justa s good in 2012 as Price was in 2015. Price had the benefit of league wide scoring tanking that year and the Art Ross winner finishing with less than 90 points.

Price could've had the exact same season in 2014 or 2016, he doesn't win the Hart or Pearson either year.
No he wasn't as good as 2015 price im sorry. That was the best goaltending season I've seen post lockout.

That's no shade at Hank btw. I've watched both of these religiously their entire career. 2015 price > 2012 Hank.

And I disagree having a couple 100+ point players would have changed anything in voters eyes. Price was a god amongst men that year
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
42,045
18,578
Mulberry Street
No he wasn't as good as 2015 price im sorry. That was the best goaltending season I've seen post lockout.

That's no shade at Hank btw. I've watched both of these religiously their entire career. 2015 price > 2012 Hank.

And I disagree having a couple 100+ point players would have changed anything in voters eyes. Price was a god amongst men that year

2012 Hank 1.97GAA, .930SV% 8 SO 39-18-5

2015 Price 1.96GAA, .933SV% 9 SO 44-16-6

They were nearly identical seasons. If you took off your blue white and red colored glasses you'd see they were equally as good.

The whole God amongst men thing is ridiculous. There is zero chance he wins the Hart/Pearson over Crosby and Kane who both outscored their opposition by a significant margin.
 

HabzSauce

Registered User
Jun 10, 2022
1,733
2,380
2012 Hank 1.97GAA, .930SV% 8 SO 39-18-5

2015 Price 1.96GAA, .933SV% 9 SO 44-16-6

They were nearly identical seasons. If you took off your blue white and red colored glasses you'd see they were equally as good.

The whole God amongst men thing is ridiculous. There is zero chance he wins the Hart/Pearson over Crosby and Kane who both outscored their opposition by a significant margin.
Yes because basic statline paints the entire picture. Does Linus Ullmark deserve to be in this conversation too then? He posted a .938, he must be better than both!
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
42,045
18,578
Mulberry Street
Yes because basic statline paints the entire picture. Does Linus Ullmark deserve to be in this conversation too then? He posted a .938, he must be better than both!

Their stats being the same literally proves and shows that they performed at the same level. If you don't wanna use stats, what metric are you using when say 2015 Price was better than 2012 Hank?

Ullmark certainly had one of the best Vezina winning years post lockout, whether hes better than both in their respective season is up for debate. The easy argument is he played 49 games to Hanks 62 & Prices 66 and that's not insignificant gap.
 

HabzSauce

Registered User
Jun 10, 2022
1,733
2,380
Their stats being the same literally proves and shows that they performed at the same level. If you don't wanna use stats, what metric are you using when say 2015 Price was better than 2012 Hank?

Ullmark certainly had one of the best Vezina winning years post lockout, whether hes better than both in their respective season is up for debate. The easy argument is he played 49 games to Hanks 62 & Prices 66 and that's not insignificant gap.
First off they're not the same. Price had an additional 5 wins on a crappier team. That's pretty significant. And when you're posting .930+, even a .03 difference is decent. GAA and shutouts, sure those are near identical but price still got better of him there too

So to you, if this basic statline of SV%, GAA, W and SO is proof that one is better than the other, shouldn't you be saying Price instead? Since you know, he topped Hank in all categories? If not, then what else are you looking at here?

Their basic statline isn't all I look at, which is why I never bring it up as my only argument when having this debate. I trust my eyeballs first and foremost when it's this close. But I also consider what team they were playing on, what systems they were running, what defence they had infront and quality of forwards they had as well. You have to take all that into consideration which is why I brought up Ullmark. Potting a .938 playing for the best team ever assembled (points wise) doesn't automatically catapult you above Price and Hank just because of stats. Let me ask you this - do you feel confident that Ullmark could have done that on the 2012 rags or 2015 Habs? I don't see it. I don't even see a debate...

To be honest the quality of teams Price and Hank had infront were similar in comparison. I'd say Rags had better team overall. It's close tho.

You're probably not going to like this analysis because it's subjective to my own eyeballs. What stood out the most to me in 2015 was Price's ability to completely steal games on a consistent basis, and especially in last 5 minutes of a game, usually holding a 1 goal lead. I can think of so many games like this off top of my head where team was pressuring Habs for final minutes throwing everything they had at Price but he just wasn't having any of it. Game vs the sharks , the islanders, coyotes...making incredible saves right at the end. If you want a good example watch game 6 sens vs Habs. I know it's playoffs but that dominant of a performance was something he was doing all year long. Good examples of Ottawa in Habs zone for long periods of time at the end only to be denied by price. That was a pretty normal game for the Habs lol - score 1-2 goals, then resort to getting hemmed in their own zone for majority of game while Price puts on a clinic and steals it.

Hank had his fair share of those games too but not as many as Price had. Price just felt and looked more dominant, and more relied on to win his team a hockey game than Lundqvist with the Rags. Had 5 more wins. He was the Habs. Hence why he won the Hart trophy that year.
 

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