Who Has The Better Team , Colorado Or Vegas ?

[bringbacktheskate604]

Is he going to win the Norris trophy every year? I doubt it. Bouchard will probably get a nod if he keeps on producing at the rate he has been on the last two seasons eventually.

Until Bouchard stops needing a sitter and can run his own pair a Norris ain't happening.

Oilers fans like to point out his point totals and they are quite impressive but they are the equivalent of Chinese food, empty.

He's not like Makar, Quinn or Josi etc, he doesn't drive the play at an elite Norris level, his assists are mostly a product of being around those two. He's got a hell of a shot I'll give him that but to win a Norris if your not a stud in your own zone while still putting up points, then you have to be a game breaker who dictates and drives play, not pass the puck to #97 and watch him skate the puck up and create the chance

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

I was going to call one thing out….

If one were to wave a wand and make it so both teams were suddenly granted a perfect bill of health, I’d be putting the cumulative impact of Eichel, Stone, Hertl, Hill just a tick above Landeskog/Nichushkin.

As close as the teams are through wildly different approaches, the Avs have a more explosive team with gaps from injury while that same on/off switch for injuries gives Vegas the silly depth advantage.

They’re both in that tier of teams ready to send Edmonton to therapy:

Tier 1: EDM
Tier 2: COL/VGK/VAN/DAL
Tier 3: NSH^/LA/STL

The Oilers have an advantage……that said, the West is kinda like a World Cup “Group of Death.”

What exactly puts the oilers in a tier above? They are a flawed team that depends more on one player than any team in hockey and even in his prime they haven't won yet.
People can blame the coach for their bad start but it also showed how poor they can be when they get bad goaltending and an average #97 for his standards.
They aren't a deep team that can play low event hockey on a consistent basis.
The Canadian media has raised the oilers on a pedestal because they have McDavid and oilers fans have globbed onto that and become somehow even more obnoxious now saying Bouchard and Makar aren't that far apart.
I for one look forward to seeing them get knocked down a peg or two.

 

[Drew4u]

On paper Colorado has a significantly better team. Eichel, Stone, Theodore are very injury prone. Pietrangelo has declined significantly from a few years ago. They literally lost their second best forward and replaced him with nothing. I actually think the Vegas has a higher chance of missing the playoffs.

However, there is too much randomness in the NHL so you never know. I mean if the original expansion team in 2018 almost won the cup I guess anyone can.

Based off common sense and analytics.

Tier 1: Edmonton, Dallas
Tier 2: Nashville, Colorado, Vancouver
Tier 3: Vegas, Winnipeg

 

[eviohh26]

On paper Colorado has a significantly better team. Eichel, Stone, Theodore are very injury prone. Pietrangelo has declined significantly from a few years ago. They literally lost their second best forward and replaced him with nothing. I actually think the Vegas has a higher chance of missing the playoffs.

However, there is too much randomness in the NHL so you never know. I mean if the original expansion team in 2018 almost won the cup I guess anyone can.

Based off common sense and analytics.

Tier 1: Edmonton, Dallas
Tier 2: Nashville, Colorado, Vancouver
Tier 3: Vegas, Winnipeg

Dallas hasn't proven they are a tier above Colorado and Vancouver.
Vegas is getting down played a bit here too.

 

[FerrisRox]

And Makar has a Norris and a Conn Smythe while Bouchard has one 80 point season. If you can’t see the difference there, I also don’t know what to tell you.

I think you might be struggling to follow here.

Are you under the impression that I have Bouchard ranked ahead of Makar? I think you might need to go back and re-read the message you're responding to. (Also, worth pointing out that Makar has only two 80 point seasons so you flex isn't quite what you think.)

 

[sensfan4lifee]

I would easily put McDavid, Draisaitl and Bouchard ahead of that trio.

My god this Bouchard over rating crap is getting out of hand

Yes I'd easily take Mcdavid and Drai over the Colorado forwards but Makar VS Bouchard?

Bouchard cant hold a candle to Makar

Edmonton fans need to stop over rating there players its getting to the point where skinner is a top 5 goalie hes obviously not

 

[Spilot23]

 

[Ararana]

My god this Bouchard over rating crap is getting out of hand

Yes I'd easily take Mcdavid and Drai over the Colorado forwards but Makar VS Bouchard?

Bouchard cant hold a candle to Makar

Edmonton fans need to stop over rating there players its getting to the point where skinner is a top 5 goalie hes obviously not

Personally, I'll take the Oilers trio a lot more seriously if they manage to win a cup. That no show in game 7 was embarrassing.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

I mean, the OP’s asking the wrong question. This is just a market correction.

 

[K1984]

Until Bouchard stops needing a sitter and can run his own pair a Norris ain't happening.

Oilers fans like to point out his point totals and they are quite impressive but they are the equivalent of Chinese food, empty.

He's not like Makar, Quinn or Josi etc, he doesn't drive the play at an elite Norris level, his assists are mostly a product of being around those two. He's got a hell of a shot I'll give him that but to win a Norris if your not a stud in your own zone while still putting up points, then you have to be a game breaker who dictates and drives play, not pass the puck to #97 and watch him skate the puck up and create the chance

I know you’re a Nuck fan, but did you miss the series against the Oilers?

Bouchard was all those things, and outplayed Hughes handily in the series.

 

[Soundwave]

Until Bouchard stops needing a sitter and can run his own pair a Norris ain't happening.

Oilers fans like to point out his point totals and they are quite impressive but they are the equivalent of Chinese food, empty.

He's not like Makar, Quinn or Josi etc, he doesn't drive the play at an elite Norris level, his assists are mostly a product of being around those two. He's got a hell of a shot I'll give him that but to win a Norris if your not a stud in your own zone while still putting up points, then you have to be a game breaker who dictates and drives play, not pass the puck to #97 and watch him skate the puck up and create the chance

He outplayed Hughes head to head in the playoffs this year and was the best player in that Oilers Canucks series flat out. Yes best player, better than McDavid in that series.

If Brent Burns can win a Norris and Erik Karlsson can win multiple, Bouchard will get his shot if he keeps producing as is. If nothing else, voters will get tired of voting for Makar anyway.

 

[tucker3434]

I think you might be struggling to follow here.

Are you under the impression that have Bouchard ranked ahead of Makar? I think you might need to go back and re-read the message you're responding to. (Also, worth pointing out that Makar has only two 80 point seasons so you flex isn't quite what you think.)

You’re the one that’s struggling here. I was pretty clear in saying that the gap between Makar and Bouchard should be viewed similarly to the gap between Draisaitl and Rantanen unless you want to do some gymnastics.

Makar at his best puts up top-of-the-league offensive numbers combined with elite defensive metrics. Everyone acknowledges he had a down year this year and still had 90 points in only 77 games and finished 3rd for the Norris.

 

[WhataKnight]

What exactly puts the oilers in a tier above? They are a flawed team that depends more on one player than any team in hockey and even in his prime they haven't won yet.
People can blame the coach for their bad start but it also showed how poor they can be when they get bad goaltending and an average #97 for his standards.
They aren't a deep team that can play low event hockey on a consistent basis.
The Canadian media has raised the oilers on a pedestal because they have McDavid and oilers fans have globbed onto that and become somehow even more obnoxious now saying Bouchard and Makar aren't that far apart.
I for one look forward to seeing them get knocked down a peg or two.

As do I.


The only reasons I put EDM where I do are my belief that someday McDavid will get sick enough of getting teased, and that the roster looking about as insulated as it can be with some of those deals has less than 12 months before Stan Bowman goes looking in the wrong cabinet for soup garnish and tries adding powdered bleach.

 

[FerrisRox]

You’re the one that’s struggling here. I was pretty clear in saying that the gap between Makar and Bouchard should be viewed similarly to the gap between Draisaitl and Rantanen unless you want to do some gymnastics.

Makar at his best puts up top-of-the-league offensive numbers combined with elite defensive metrics. Everyone acknowledges he had a down year this year and still had 90 points in only 77 games and finished 3rd for the Norris.

Great.

So do you think MacKinnon is better than McDavid? Do you think Rantanen is better than Draisaitl?

If you don't, then what's the point, the Oilers threesome is clearly better, so what are you even arguing?

I said Makar is better than Bouchard and you are arguing that Maker is better than Bouchard.

 

[PaulD]

When Nichushkin is in the lineup that team is a different animal, 10 points in 8 playoff games this year after a good showing in the 2022 playoffs.....We'll see how his whole situation plays out but i gotta assume he's gonna be there come playoff time........Nor sure Georgiev is the guy to take them to a championship though.......Would rather have Adin Hill...

Marchessault a big loss for Vegas i think.......They still do have the potential to have really good depth up the middle and on defense......We'll see how their depth works out on the Wings...........

Coaches are close but i'll give Cassidy a slight edge.....

So who do you guys think is better ? I could see the Av's getting more points than them in the regular season but if they meet up in a playoff series i think i would take Vegas......

Great question.
Coin toss.
In a seven game series and I had to bet.
Knights in 7.

 

[tucker3434]

Great.

So do you think MacKinnon is better than McDavid? Do you think Rantanen is better than Draisaitl?

If you don't, then what's the point, the Oilers threesome is clearly better, so what are you even arguing?

I said Makar is better than Bouchard and you are arguing that Maker is better than Bouchard.

McDavid is better than MacKinnon. But MacKinnon is close enough that it depends on the day. He did just win a Hart and Lindsay of his own. The other four might be a wash. All together, the Avs trio did outscore the Oilers trio just last season. McDavid alone gives them the edge. “Easily” is nonsense unless Draisiatl is at his best, Makar is at his worst, and Bouchard’s offense isn’t just a flash in the pan, which is really all I was trying to say.

the oilers took the next step because they finally started acquiring decent complementary players and goaltending.

 

[S E P H]

I mean if he keeps putting up numbers like he has been, it's probably only a matter of time

When has the Norris been awarded for the best offensive defenceman? Bouchard is a train wreck defensively and has always been.

 

[Ninety7]

When has the Norris been awarded for the best offensive defenceman? Bouchard is a train wreck defensively and has always been.

literally a year ago.

 

[shadow1]

The way I look at it: If both teams are a wash right now, Colorado has the edge.

I say that because at some point this year, they're either getting back:

• Landeskog + Nichushkin
• Landeskog + $6.125M in cap
• $7M in cap + Nichushkin
• $13.125M in cap

 

[BigGoalBrad]

You can put anyone around the Colorado stars and the team will be good. But I think McKinnon/Rantenen/Toews/Makar have a pretty piss poor surrounding cast right now those 4 make a lot but there is still money left over that could be used better. They could definitely circumvent the cap and redshirt Nuke and Landeskog in coming years for playoffs only to make a super team so we'll see.

Vegas is deep and big another Florida and will be extremely tough to beat next few years they aren't old yet either.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

On paper Colorado has a significantly better team. Eichel, Stone, Theodore are very injury prone. Pietrangelo has declined significantly from a few years ago. They literally lost their second best forward and replaced him with nothing. I actually think the Vegas has a higher chance of missing the playoffs.

However, there is too much randomness in the NHL so you never know. I mean if the original expansion team in 2018 almost won the cup I guess anyone can.

Based off common sense and analytics.

Tier 1: Edmonton, Dallas
Tier 2: Nashville, Colorado, Vancouver
Tier 3: Vegas, Winnipeg

They had a hangover from winning the Cup which happens to everyone recently and are coming off that season. Players the caliber of Stone and Pietro just don't decline in their early 30s both have a couple years of elite play left and will be healthier next season. They correctly walked away from a Marchessault retirement contract that would have hamstrung them. Plenty deep at forward after the Stone and Eichel they still have Roy Barbashov Darofyev Karlsson Hertl.

D Goaltending coaching elite. Its pretty likely they get a second cup in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Imgoingtowork]

What other 2 Western teams do you have replacing Vegas and the Avs in the playoffs? Genuinely curious. I predict both of these squads in. Avs probably 3rd in Central/wildcard and Vegas 3rd in Pacific/wildcard as well.

2020-2024:

Tier 1: Colorado, Vegas
Tier 2: Dallas, Winnipeg
Tier 3: Minnesota, Chicago, Arizona

2025:

Tier 1: Nashville, Minnesota, Winnipeg
Tier 2: Dallas, Colorado
Tier 3: Chicago, Utah, Vegas

 

[missionAvs]

2020-2024:

Tier 1: Colorado, Vegas
Tier 2: Dallas, Winnipeg
Tier 3: Minnesota, Chicago, Arizona

2025:

Tier 1: Nashville, Minnesota, Winnipeg
Tier 2: Dallas, Colorado
Tier 3: Chicago, Utah, Vegas

So you have them making it or not? Also the Hawks/Utah won't be close to Vegas.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Without Landeskog Colorado doesn't have enough depth and/or maturity to be a serious contender.

I agree with you, people are underestimating how significant losing your leader like that is. MacKinnon is a great player, but I don't think he's matured into that leadership role that Colorado needs, and Makar isn't ready for it either.

He outplayed Hughes head to head in the playoffs this year and was the best player in that Oilers Canucks series flat out. Yes best player, better than McDavid in that series.

If Brent Burns can win a Norris and Erik Karlsson can win multiple, Bouchard will get his shot if he keeps producing as is. If nothing else, voters will get tired of voting for Makar anyway.

Never compare Bouchard to Erik Karlsson again.

 

[Imgoingtowork]

So you have them making it or not? Also the Hawks/Utah won't be close to Vegas.

Don't think about the past.

Think about the future.

24/25 Vegas will flop.