Who has the best defence, Slovakia or Czechs?

[Elvs]

View attachment 610073

Hronek and Cernak are the same age. Hronek plays more minutes (22 to 20) and has a lot more points (12 to 1).

Apples and oranges. Different types of defensemen playing in different situations. Cernak and Fehervary are of course nowhere as good as Hronek offensively, but both are better offensively than their point totals suggests.

On paper, Fehervary and Cernak would make a good shutdown pairing against any opponent. I feel like they, on 5 on 5, would be better/more reliable than any pairing the Czech's could ice right now.

I did however vote the Czech's, as they currently have better or at least more proven depth. This could change pretty quickly though with Nemec and Knazko knocking on the door very soon, and prospects like Maxim Strbak, Jakub Chromiak and Luka Radivojevic showing upside for the coming drafts.

Then again, Czechia also has a couple of prospects behind Jiricek. Defense should be pretty close over the next 10-15 years, but overall (forwards and goaltending included) Czechia should remain the big brother. They are the bigger country with more rinks and registred players, afterall.

Rooting for both countries to improve. The hockey world needs it.

 

[Czechboy]

Rooting for both countries to improve. The hockey world needs it.

So am I. I'm a fan of all of them. I'd like a big 7 again. I blame both our federations for us both plummetting out!

I agree apples and oranges. However, what about Gudas for the defending part? He plays the same minutes as though 2 and also has more points? Aging for sure but Hronek/Gudas vs Cernak/Fevervay has to be close?
As far as next gen... Kral and Galvas are very close to NHL (both have already played games).

Zboril and Hajek 'might' improve? 50-50. I'm a huge Zboril fan ftr.

And we just had 4D in the top 100 of the most recent draft.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the 2 Slovaks in the NHL and the 2 in the AHL as well.

I'd say Nemec and Jiricek cancel each other out. I'd argue Hronek and Cernak do too.

Comes down to is Fehervay better than all of Zboril, Hajek, Rutta and Simek. He's better than alll of them one to one.

Czechs currently have more D in the NHL, more D in the AHL, more D drafted.

10 years ago my answer was Slovakia AINEC on D (Slovaks also had much bettter pure goal scorers for what felt like forever). I loved that core. Once Zidlicky retired we had nothing except Radko playing a bit dirty (most of that is gone now and, somehow, he became a stats darling).

I don't consider Slovakia little brother personally.. I celebrated that Olympic medal for them hard!

 

[Elvs]

So am I. I'm a fan of all of them. I'd like a big 7 again. I blame both our federations for us both plummetting out!

I agree apples and oranges. However, what about Gudas for the defending part? He plays the same minutes as though 2 and also has more points? Aging for sure but Hronek/Gudas vs Cernak/Fevervay has to be close?
As far as next gen... Kral and Galvas are very close to NHL (both have already played games).

Zboril and Hajek 'might' improve? 50-50. I'm a huge Zboril fan ftr.

And we just had 4D in the top 100 of the most recent draft.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the 2 Slovaks in the NHL and the 2 in the AHL as well.

I'd say Nemec and Jiricek cancel each other out. I'd argue Hronek and Cernak do too.

Comes down to is Fehervay better than all of Zboril, Hajek, Rutta and Simek. He's better than alll of them one to one.

Czechs currently have more D in the NHL, more D in the AHL, more D drafted.

10 years ago my answer was Slovakia AINEC on D (Slovaks also had much bettter pure goal scorers for what felt like forever). I loved that core. Once Zidlicky retired we had nothing except Radko playing a bit dirty (most of that is gone now and, somehow, he became a stats darling).

I don't consider Slovakia little brother personally.. I celebrated that Olympic medal for them hard!

Points are quite irrelevent when comparing defensive defensemen. Gudas could go pointless the next ten games and Cernak/Fehervary could have five points. This happens all the time with such players. Especially since both Tampa and Washington have started poorly, and both teams should see better stretches throughout the year (at least Tampa should, Washington is a bigger questionmark due to an aging team and major injury issues).

Cernak is a bonafide top 4 defensemen on a two time Stanley Cup champion team, who signed a $5.2 mil/yr extension because he's one of the best in the league at what he does. Fehervary is not as proven, but Capitals fans were giving him all sorts of praise last season and he's playing top 4 minutes again this year. Seemingly he's getting pretty established in that role.

Gudas is a third pairing guy who can can fill in higher up when there are injuries. That's also the reason he's been averaging over 20+ minutes this year, because Ekblad was out. Since his return, Gudas icetime has of course dropped.

I'll say this though, Gudas gets a lot of **** on HFboards. He's better than people make him out to be.

As for Slovakia vs. Czechia, I think things are completely circumstancial. If the question is Slovakia vs. Czechia playing against eachother, then you're fine having Hronek on your top pairing because of how mediocre Slovakia's offense is right now. But in a complete best on best tournament, defending against better teams, I'm defenitely more content putting Fehervary/Cernak out there than any pairing the Czechs have.

Gudas and Hronek are both right handed. Not sure how either would be affected playing on the left side. But in a best on best tournament, I feel like Czechia would be best off sheltering Hronek on their 2nd pairing, to give him more favourable matchups 5 on 5, and of course give him a big role on the power play. Defending against better nations' top lines, I'd let Gudas do the heavy lifting together with one of Zobril/Simek/Kempny (whoever he mashes best with).

But depth wise, there's no doubt Czechia is ahead at the moment. At least they are more proven, with three established NHL'ers on the right side. But they desperately need to develop a top 4 lefty.

 

[Goodman68]

Points are quite irrelevent when comparing defensive defensemen. Gudas could go pointless the next ten games and Cernak/Fehervary could have five points. This happens all the time with such players. Especially since both Tampa and Washington have started poorly, and both teams should see better stretches throughout the year (at least Tampa should, Washington is a bigger questionmark due to an aging team and major injury issues).

Cernak is a bonafide top 4 defensemen on a two time Stanley Cup champion team, who signed a $5.2 mil/yr extension because he's one of the best in the league at what he does. Fehervary is not as proven, but Capitals fans were giving him all sorts of praise last season and he's playing top 4 minutes again this year. Seemingly he's getting pretty established in that role.

Gudas is a third pairing guy who can can fill in higher up when there are injuries. That's also the reason he's been averaging over 20+ minutes this year, because Ekblad was out. Since his return, Gudas icetime has of course dropped.

I'll say this though, Gudas gets a lot of **** on HFboards. He's better than people make him out to be.

As for Slovakia vs. Czechia, I think things are completely circumstancial. If the question is Slovakia vs. Czechia playing against eachother, then you're fine having Hronek on your top pairing because of how mediocre Slovakia's offense is right now. But in a complete best on best tournament, defending against better teams, I'm defenitely more content putting Fehervary/Cernak out there than any pairing the Czechs have.

Gudas and Hronek are both right handed. Not sure how either would be affected playing on the left side. But in a best on best tournament, I feel like Czechia would be best off sheltering Hronek on their 2nd pairing, to give him more favourable matchups 5 on 5, and of course give him a big role on the power play. Defending against better nations' top lines, I'd let Gudas do the heavy lifting together with one of Zobril/Simek/Kempny (whoever he mashes best with).

But depth wise, there's no doubt Czechia is ahead at the moment. At least they are more proven, with three established NHL'ers on the right side. But they desperately need to develop a top 4 lefty.

A small note about Hronek. I also had huge complaints about his defensive game in the past. He made huge mistakes, his opponents outplayed him very easily. But not only according to clips (I don't watch full games), but especially according to Wings fans, he has improved a lot in his defensive game and is still doing well in attack. According to fans, he is playing the best hockey of his career and is still relatively young. He's getting more IT than Seider this year, subtly turning him into a truly above-average player.

 

[Czechboy]

Points are quite irrelevent when comparing defensive defensemen. Gudas could go pointless the next ten games and Cernak/Fehervary could have five points. This happens all the time with such players. Especially since both Tampa and Washington have started poorly, and both teams should see better stretches throughout the year (at least Tampa should, Washington is a bigger questionmark due to an aging team and major injury issues).

Cernak is a bonafide top 4 defensemen on a two time Stanley Cup champion team, who signed a $5.2 mil/yr extension because he's one of the best in the league at what he does. Fehervary is not as proven, but Capitals fans were giving him all sorts of praise last season and he's playing top 4 minutes again this year. Seemingly he's getting pretty established in that role.

Gudas is a third pairing guy who can can fill in higher up when there are injuries. That's also the reason he's been averaging over 20+ minutes this year, because Ekblad was out. Since his return, Gudas icetime has of course dropped.

I'll say this though, Gudas gets a lot of **** on HFboards. He's better than people make him out to be.

As for Slovakia vs. Czechia, I think things are completely circumstancial. If the question is Slovakia vs. Czechia playing against eachother, then you're fine having Hronek on your top pairing because of how mediocre Slovakia's offense is right now. But in a complete best on best tournament, defending against better teams, I'm defenitely more content putting Fehervary/Cernak out there than any pairing the Czechs have.

Gudas and Hronek are both right handed. Not sure how either would be affected playing on the left side. But in a best on best tournament, I feel like Czechia would be best off sheltering Hronek on their 2nd pairing, to give him more favourable matchups 5 on 5, and of course give him a big role on the power play. Defending against better nations' top lines, I'd let Gudas do the heavy lifting together with one of Zobril/Simek/Kempny (whoever he mashes best with).

But depth wise, there's no doubt Czechia is ahead at the moment. At least they are more proven, with three established NHL'ers on the right side. But they desperately need to develop a top 4 lefty.

Before I reply.. can you let me know what side the 2 NHL Slovaks play?

 

[Elvs]

A small note about Hronek. I also had huge complaints about his defensive game in the past. He made huge mistakes, his opponents outplayed him very easily. But not only according to clips (I don't watch full games), but especially according to Wings fans, he has improved a lot in his defensive game and is still doing well in attack. According to fans, he is playing the best hockey of his career and is still relatively young. He's getting more IT than Seider this year, subtly turning him into a truly above-average player.

Detroit is much improved overall, and for me it takes a lot more than 18 games to wash away a bad stamp. Hronek has been much better than Cernak to start this year, but Cernak was better for the full 3-4 years prior.

Anyway, since Hronek is doing so well this year, maybe now isn't the time to start experiment with him playing on the left side. That's the thing, Czechia doesn't have any top 4 lefties in the NHL. It makes it difficult for them to build a reliable top pairing. But again, overall I think Czechia's defence is ahead just like I voted in the poll.

Before I reply.. can you let me know what side the 2 NHL Slovaks play?

Fehervary plays left side, Cernak plays right.

 

[Czechboy]

I had no idea he was doing that well tbh. I always thought he was out of his range as a 1D but was a very good top 4D. Looks like that second pair behind Seider suits him beautifully... for now.

 

[Czechboy]

Czechia doesn't have any top 4 lefties in the NHL

We really don't have a top pairing guy. Hronek is a beautiful 3 and a good 2. Gudas is, at this peak, a great 3 or 4. Rutta was on first pair with Hedman for those cups but always ended up with 10 less minutes as he was a nice compliment to the very elite Hedman. Hajek and Zboril could still develop into top 4 guys and they could also both be in Europe within 2 years.

Put another way.. no Hedman/Josi/Makar in our D at all. Hopefully Hronek continues playing well (on a good team now that should be a cup contender within a few seasons as they have a great GM and a beautiful core) and Jiricek takes off quickly. Of course, Gudas is aging out so when Hronek/Jiricek are our best D Gudas will be near the end of his career. It's all maybes and 'hope for someone else to take off' (eg. like Kempny, Simek and Rutta did about 5 years ago when they all ended up in the NHL after not being drafted). Maybe Knot? Maybe Kral? Maybe Galvas? Maybe Hamara? Maybe Alscher? Maybe Krutil? Maybe Spacek? Maybe Klok? Maybe Dvorak (who could be a great Gudas replacement)? Maybe young Jiricek? Maybe young Galvas? Maybe Badinka? Maybe Svozil?

It's all maybe's.. we have a lot of those and it's just as likely they end up NHLers as they do Extraliger's. Eg. Has and Kubicek were considered good prospects at one point... both in ECHL.

 

[Egresch]

Hronek, Rutta, Gudas, Hajek, Jiricek, Zboril

vs.

Cernak, Fehervary, Nemec, Knazko, Ceresnak, Gernat

Am I the only one who is wondering why there is no NHL team to sign Ceresnak? I know he is already 29 but his last two years were pretty good. He could easily handle 3rd pairing in NHL.

 

[Czechboy]

 

[Czechboy]

Am I the only one who is wondering why there is no NHL team to sign Ceresnak? I know he is already 29 but his last two years were pretty good. He could easily handle 3rd pairing in NHL.

Peter Ceresnak at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Peter Ceresnak, 1993-01-26 Trencin, SVK Slovakia. Most recently in the Czechia with HC Dynamo Pardubice. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Going from extraliga to NHL is a hell of a leap for a Dman. Only one I can think of that did it was Jan Rutta (and even he spent some time for 2 different AHL teams).

29 and hasn't played on small north american rinks in 10 years.

Those are my guesses anyways. If you are a Czech/Slovak D.. you better want to go to the AHL first.

 

[Czechboy]

Hronek, Rutta, Gudas, Hajek, Jiricek, Zboril

vs.

Cernak, Fehervary, Nemec, Knazko, Ceresnak, Gernat

Put another way

NHL, NHL, NHL, NHL, NHL/AHL, NHL

vs

NHL, NHL, AHL, AHL, Extraliga, NLA

If this is a best on best... then the big 5 would have all NHL D.... maybe the Finn's grab one Euro, maybe the Russians toss in a KHLer. Maybe? I'd personally not want to see McD and friends entering the zone against some Czech extraliga D.lol In fairness, he'd torch our NHL D too.lol

 

[Antiillafire]

@GettingYourMoms

 

[Egresch]

I guess Czech might add Arber Xhekaj from Habs, if needed. Should be an upgrade to Gudas

 

[Czechboy]

I guess Czech might add Arber Xhekaj from Habs, if needed. Should be an upgrade to Gudas

I hoped so but I think Jukurit (could be wrong here but someone knowledgeable) pointed out he'd have to play in Extraliga for 2 years. Eg. the Klima's can now do play for the Czechs.

 

[Czechboy]

Not sure if anyone has noticed but Hronek is playing lights out. The ghost of Hronek is currently not around (the minus 55 player who can't defend).

He's leading the Wing's in minutes and points (and the very flawed plus/minus) and has moved Seider (yes the elite one that I think is on a 'Makar' pace) to 2nd pair.

I think a lot of us (including me) are sleeping on Hronek right now as he's had a great start.

Do I think this will continue for 82 games? 50-50. But currently he's in damn good company

 

[MNRube]

Slovakia could have a nice Top 3 once Nemec hits his stride. But I’m going with Czechs for now.

 

[Czechboy]

Slovakia could have a nice Top 3 once Nemec hits his stride. But I’m going with Czechs for now.

Top 4 - both NHL guys are exceent and both AHL guys WILL be excellent. I think they have another good one coming up for the draft too!

 

[Czechboy]

Thought I'd revisit this today since season is almost done:

Gernat is no longer in NLA for Lausanne after terminating contract. Just not sure if that means he's going to NHL or going to a weaker league?

Here are the NHL Czechs (hint: not very good).

Here are the NHL Slovaks:

Both Slovaks are a shade under 20 a game. Hronek is close to 22 a night. Rutta and Gudas are around 17 a night. Rest could be definined as 'warm bodies'.

Hronek leads in goals, assists, points and TOI.. he's taken a step and has been getting a tonne of minutes for the Nucks. The rest of the Czechs have not taken a step.lol Jiricek is arrows up (just like Nemec). SImek is a part timer really. Zboril may never play a full season. Hajek is in AHL (not sure if he sees the NHL again). Kral played 2 games, and never really played again anywhere.. Rutta has had a good season and so has Gudas.

AHL wise:

vs

I'm going to call Jiricek and Nemec a draw (I hope both go supernova ftr)

Kempny is in Extraliga, Kubicek is in ECHL, Klok is in NLA.

 

[Czechboy]

Hronek's first 2 games for the Nucks. I hated that he was traded but they clearly wanted him and are putting him in a great spot to be successful. Him and Hughes are getting very similar minutes with Hronek getting more PP and Hughes getting more 5 x 5. Curious if this works long term or if this is a honeymoon period as it's a tiny sample size.

 

[Czechboy]

Bumping this for the upcoming season...

I think the Slovaks might have the edge this season as they could have 4 full timers now that are all Top 4 calibre.

Czechs lost Galvas and Kral. Hajek is PTO.

 

[biturbo19]

I'd go with the Czechs i think. Cernak is really the only Slovak who has shown he can solidly handle top minutes against NHL caliber talent. With the Czechs, they can somewhat offset that with Hronek...and also have guys like Gudas, and Rutta who have played up above their heads a little bit in stints. Plus i like Jiricec over Nemec, and think he's probably also closer to "ready" to step into some bigger shoes.

Man it's bleak though. What happened? Especially the Slovaks who used to have a pretty solid blueline.


Even together, it's...pretty yikes. Also a bit like Canada a while back where all the best guys are RHD for some reason. Cernak, Hronek, Jiricec, Nemec, Rutta, Gudas...That's also kind of weird.

 

[biturbo19]

View attachment 676425

Hronek's first 2 games for the Nucks. I hated that he was traded but they clearly wanted him and are putting him in a great spot to be successful. Him and Hughes are getting very similar minutes with Hronek getting more PP and Hughes getting more 5 x 5. Curious if this works long term or if this is a honeymoon period as it's a tiny sample size.

Canucks are definitely going to give Hronek every opportunity to put that second pairing on his shoulders and run with it. For better or worse.

Should be interesting to see how he settles in with whichever of Soucy/Cole he ends up with.


The powerplay situation will also be interesting to track. Hronek should be the clear cut quarterback and a fixture on that 2nd Unit. But...with Hughes around, he's not going to get any top unit minutes and it remains to be seen just how 1st Unit heavy they decide to roll. Playing "second fiddle" to Seider there is one thing...other coaches have really leaned on Hughes and that top unit hard.

He's going to have to really run show with whatever time he gets on that 2nd unit. With some likely mix of guys like Garland, Beauvillier, probably Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Hoglander, etc. It's very much "leftovers" and guys who have typically been better even strength producers than powerplay dynamos.

But they invested big in him. They clearly think he can be a key cog in a better blueline. We'll see...

 

[Czechboy]

Canucks are definitely going to give Hronek every opportunity to put that second pairing on his shoulders and run with it. For better or worse.

Should be interesting to see how he settles in with whichever of Soucy/Cole he ends up with.


The powerplay situation will also be interesting to track. Hronek should be the clear cut quarterback and a fixture on that 2nd Unit. But...with Hughes around, he's not going to get any top unit minutes and it remains to be seen just how 1st Unit heavy they decide to roll. Playing "second fiddle" to Seider there is one thing...other coaches have really leaned on Hughes and that top unit hard.

He's going to have to really run show with whatever time he gets on that 2nd unit. With some likely mix of guys like Garland, Beauvillier, probably Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Hoglander, etc. It's very much "leftovers" and guys who have typically been better even strength producers than powerplay dynamos.

But they invested big in him. They clearly think he can be a key cog in a better blueline. We'll see...

I've always thought he is a legit Top 4D but not THE guy. He's a great complimentary type guy and he can be a 1B to a great partner or a great 2nd line D on a team with a guy like Hughes. A few less minutes I don't think hurts him and might help him. I do think he'll get a great chance in Vancouver and playing behind a guy like Hughes probably helps him.

Coming off injury on a new team is always hard. We will see. Hoping for 20+ a night!

 

[biturbo19]

I've always thought he is a legit Top 4D but not THE guy. He's a great complimentary type guy and he can be a 1B to a great partner or a great 2nd line D on a team with a guy like Hughes. A few less minutes I don't think hurts him and might help him. I do think he'll get a great chance in Vancouver and playing behind a guy like Hughes probably helps him.

Coming off injury on a new team is always hard. We will see. Hoping for 20+ a night!

Yeah. That's pretty much the way i see him. Hopefully it works out. It'd feel a little more solid if there was a clear RHD partner for Hughes ahead of him...but that may just be a stopgap situation until Willander hopefully arrives, eventually.

The other kind of unresolved thing with Hronek's minutes is that, assuming Myers is still around...the big chaos giraffe will probably continue to soak up a pretty healthy dose of those RHD minutes as well. What that means for Hronek...i'm not sure. They'll want to keep Cole/Soucy minutes in check, but Myers really doesn't work with Hughes, so i wouldn't be at all surprised to see certain situational instances where Hronek gets shifts beside Hughes. It's a very confusing blueline puzzle at the moment with a lot of moving pieces...i don't think anybody knows how it'll shake out in practice.