Speculation: Who gets relieved of their job?

[lumbergh]

My proposal to trade Lewis has nothing to do with his performance. He is a fast forward that is good in his own zone. The issue is the cap. No team will take Brown or Gaborik, so we have to get rid of cap space through secondary options. Getting rid of Lewis and Clifford and replacing them with two $1million dollar players saves us $1.6 million in cap space. Then if we trade Martinez or Muzzin for a forward on his entry level deal, that opens up about another $3 million in cap. The open cap space will give the GM flexibility to make moves if there is a deal to be made in the off season.

Which is better as a cap dump, trading Lewis or buying out Gaborik? I would argue the latter.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Can I vote for Jay Flats?

Flats, Dave Joseph, and the train horn.

 

[BigKing]

I've jokingly said "There goes the real captain of this team" about Lewis several times at home games this year.

He is far, far from a problem with this team. Now, there can be complaints about his usage but, ****, nobody else is doing a damn thing out there.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Tough to say. Feels like as long as Lombardi is the GM, Sutter will be the coach. Though it is obvious the players started tuning him out the last 1/4 of last season.

 

[Reaper45]

Can I vote for Jay Flats?

From your fingertips to the gods ears.

 

[BigKing]

Tough to say. Feels like as long as Lombardi is the GM, Sutter will be the coach. Though it is obvious the players started tuning him out the last 1/4 of last season.

Maybe most teams block their coach from entering the locker room with trash cans but, if not, this team has been probably been burned out on the experience for even longer than the last 1/4 of last season.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Which is better as a cap dump, trading Lewis or buying out Gaborik? I would argue the latter.

Oh ya its much better to buy out Gaborik so that we are on the hook for dead cap hit until 2025:

SEASON SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT ACTUAL COST SAVINGS BUYOUT CAP HIT
2017-18 $5,075,000 $4,875,000 $1,325,000 $3,750,000 $1,125,000
2018-19 $4,575,000 $4,875,000 $1,325,000 $3,250,000 $1,625,000
2019-20 $3,175,000 $4,875,000 $1,325,000 $1,850,000 $3,025,000
2020-21 $3,075,000 $4,875,000 $1,325,000 $1,750,000 $3,125,000
2021-22 $0 $0 $1,325,000 -$1,325,000 $1,325,000
2022-23 $0 $0 $1,325,000 -$1,325,000 $1,325,000
2023-24 $0 $0 $1,325,000 -$1,325,000 $1,325,000
2024-25 $0 $0 $1,325,000 -$1,325,000 $1,325,000

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Gaborik on this roster is pretty much already dead cap space.

Dean Lombardi sure has set his successor up with quite the mess.

 

[Herby]

I am literally the least violent person you will ever meet, and I came within about 2 seconds of punching Jay Flats in the face and had to hold my buddy back from doing the same after I came to my senses.

Loser had the nerve to call myself and two of my buddies from my team (long time players and Kings fans) fake fans because we got up and left the watch party for Gsme 5 of the 2010 series after the Canucks were up 4-5 goals or whatever it was after two.

Guy is a **** stain and pathetic.

 

[fsanford]

The #1 issue for the Kings since June 2014 was Voynov. Can't lose him for nothing. Not in a cap world. 3 years later and he still hasn't been replaced. #2 was that this roster made a run before the Sekera trade. Lombardi felt the need to give the defending champs a shot. With Voynov there, no need for Sekera. He got Sekera though, and somehow they managed to miss the playoffs. Terrible 4v4 OT team, awesome 3v3 OT team. Makes no sense, but whatever. Because they actually missed the playoffs, Carolina got the 2016 pick. That was the Matthews/Laine draft, and since the Kings proved they could miss the playoffs already, Lombardi got Lucic in order to hopefully get the team back in the playoffs, because can you imagine the Kings missing the playoffs and Carolina winning the 2016 lottery with the Kings pick?

Yes, the Richards thing was a mistake. Gaborik? Go back even on this site's Gaborik signing thread. It was a risk, but the majority seemed to be at least cool with it.

If they go out in 4 or 5 quiet games to the Sharks in 2014, I imagine everyone would've been let go, the same way Penner and Scuderi were allowed to walk after 2013. No Greene, no Richards, no Mitchell, no Gaborik.

14-15: lose Voynov, can't win in OT.
15-16: choked at home, or else they win the division
16-17: lose Quick, Kopitar has a career worst season, Lombardi started retooling the roster for the future after the 2016 playoffs, and simply too many regulation losses, especially at home, against not so great teams.

Fans have no repercussions if they they are wrong, GM's on the other hand...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Oh ya its much better to buy out Gaborik so that we are on the hook for dead cap hit until 2025:

SEASON SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT ACTUAL COST SAVINGS BUYOUT CAP HIT
2017-18 $5,075,000 $4,875,000 $1,325,000 $3,750,000 $1,125,000
2018-19 $4,575,000 $4,875,000 $1,325,000 $3,250,000 $1,625,000
2019-20 $3,175,000 $4,875,000 $1,325,000 $1,850,000 $3,025,000
2020-21 $3,075,000 $4,875,000 $1,325,000 $1,750,000 $3,125,000
2021-22 $0 $0 $1,325,000 -$1,325,000 $1,325,000
2022-23 $0 $0 $1,325,000 -$1,325,000 $1,325,000
2023-24 $0 $0 $1,325,000 -$1,325,000 $1,325,000
2024-25 $0 $0 $1,325,000 -$1,325,000 $1,325,000

Yeah, don't buy Gaborik out. There's no reason to. Who are you getting for the less than $4m in cap space? Probably nobody that will score more than the 12 goals Gaborik gets. That, plus the $6m in dead cap space over 2 years? Plus 4 more years of dead space after that?

Keep Gaborik, hope he bounces back with a coach that I guess he likes enough to try for.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Fans have no repercussions if they they are wrong, GM's on the other hand...

Sure, but if anyone was sort of ok with it at the time, it's a little unfair to say he should've known not to sign him. Gaborik had a really good 14-15 season, which will always be the biggest what if season for this core. If they could've squeezed out another Cup that year?

I think I remember being at least 50/50 on Lombardi keeping Richards. Maybe 51/49 in favor. I got what he was thinking when he made the choice. You win 2 in 3, with the way the team rallied around themselves in 2014, the players had some kind of connection. Teams don't do what the Kings did all the time. You can say, yeah, that was unique, and unlikely to happen again, so move on. You can also say, yeah, that team is greater than the sum of their parts, and had some sort of "it" factor, and you want to bottle as much of that as possible.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Buying out Gaborik is pointless unless we are desperately trying to save every penny to make this team as good as it can be. In its current state, thats probably a losing battle. If we want to get younger and cheaper we can do so while riding out most of Gaboirk's contract. Buy him out later if we turn the corner early.

 

[LAKings88]

I think the top priority is finding another coach. The Mayor raised the most important risk with keeping Sutter on this team next year--he will suck the offensive talent out of the young kids we recently called up (Kempe, Brodzinski, and Dowd as well). These kids come up and play with life for several games, and then they slowly become vanilla. I am sure part of that has to do with them getting worn down from NHL play, but I think the Kings system takes all creativity they have out of play.

We wont be able to dump the contracts of Brown and Gaborik, so the GM will need to focus on the next best thing--getting rid of Clifford and Lewis. Because we are top heavy on the salary cap, we need to essentially only have bottom six forwards that make $1 million or less on this roster.

Shore had solid AHL numbers and was a driving force to the Clader cup wasn't he?

This scares me too.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I'm not necessarily opposed to buying out Gaborik. I cited those figures to rebut a point someone made about buying out Gaborik instead of opening cap space by trading Lewis and Clifford.

I am open to buying out Gaborik only if there is a deal to be made and his buy out cap savings opens up space for that deal. However, I agree that I would like to give him another chance with a different coach. Gaborik looked great playing under Ralph Krueger during the world cup of hockey. If he can bounce back to just being a 20 goal scorer, which I think is possible, he is worth every penny of his contract.

Let's be realistic here. No team in the modern cap era will trade for Brown and Gaborik. The only way the Kings get more cap space is by trading Lewis and Clifford, and by swapping Muzzin or Martinez for a young forward on his entry level contract.

 

[Reaper45]

Whatever happens with the coaching staff, keep the goaltending coaches. Ranford and Imoo have been pretty good.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Ranford is a treasure. Kings should hold onto him as much as they can.

 

[kenito7]

It is time to blow it all up and start over. Both should go. If not both you may
as well keep them both because it will not matter the Kings are not Cup contenders
for the foreseeable future. Also since the Kings are going nowhere no one should be
bought out at this time. It would be to little to late now. It is time for the fire sell.
I would probably keep Pearson, Toffoli and Doughty and try to trade Kopitar. Everyone else should be available for the right price.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

We didn't. We promptly went back to the WCF then won ANOTHER cup before all the nightmares began. So you're saying you'd rather be the St. Louis Blues/San Jose Sharks?

Obviously, the Canes have one and we have two. What I meant was after the last recent cup. In their case, it was their first and in our case, after our second one. I never said I'd rather be the Sharks. I said I'd rather have sustained success with two Cups under our belt. Why do you guys make it sound like it's a choice between sustained success and Cup wins when you can have both if you were smart enough to do it?

The Penguins have multiple high picks when they did tank still on the roster. And it was 8 years in between cups. I still don't consider that sustained success.

So do the Oilers. But what's your point? That's not the only reason why the Penguins have been consistent winners for a long time now. And how on earth do you not consider the Penguins last 10 years as a sustained success? Since the lockout:

- 10 straight winning seasons/playoff appearances (about to be 11)
- 3 division titles
- 4 Conference Finals appearances
- 3 Stanley Cup Final appearances
- 2 Stanley Cups

If that's not sustained success, then you must have extremely high standards. Does a team have to win 5 straight Cups to impress you? And who cares if it's 8 years in between Cups? That's still the same Cup count as ours.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Obviously, the Canes have one and we have two. What I meant was after the last recent cup. In their case, it was their first and in our case, after our second one. I never said I'd rather be the Sharks. I said I'd rather have sustained success with two Cups under our belt. Why do you guys make it sound like it's a choice between sustained success and Cup wins when you can have both if you were smart enough to do it?

"except for that time we were much, much more successful for two years after, we're just about the same thing." Come on.

Number of teams with two Cup wins in the lockout era--3.

Number of teams with two Cup wins AND yearly sustained success--2.

There are 27 GMs "dumber" than DL since 2005 (actually, more, but 27 franchises worth of GMs, and the Pens GMs each only have 1, so). Stop being a spoiled fan.

So do the Oilers. But what's your point? That's not the only reason why the Penguins have been consistent winners for a long time now. And how on earth do you not consider the Penguins last 10 years as a sustained success? Since the lockout:

- 10 straight winning seasons/playoff appearances (about to be 11)
- 3 division titles
- 4 Conference Finals appearances
- 3 Stanley Cup Final appearances
- 2 Stanley Cups

If that's not sustained success, then you must have extremely high standards. Does a team have to win 5 straight Cups to impress you? And who cares if it's 8 years in between Cups? That's still the same Cup count as ours.

Let me know when we draft Crosby AND Malkin. And calling the Penguins 'consistent winners' while putting down our franchise is laughable. Talking of 'extremely high standards...'

We have people in here *****ing about our one-round and out last year. You really want 10 years of that? Everyone else seems to be suggesting be a contender or rebuild, not do the in-between baloney. People have been actively talking down 'playoff appearances' for the last several months. Hell there's even a thread up poopooing the idea of making the playoffs because we could get a higher pick!

I get the sense of having higher expectations and wanting more from the franchise, but the sense of perspective and context around here is completely warped. Yes, it IS actually a lot to ask for SUSTAINED SUCCESS AND TWO CUPS otherwise lots of franchises would have gotten out of the gutter sometime in the last decade. Plenty of franchises don't even have one Cup and we're talking about teams like StL and the Sharks as if they're the model to follow!

 

[The Tikkanen]

source? or opinion?

Are you serious? This is a thread asking what people think will happen.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

"except for that time we were much, much more successful for two years after, we're just about the same thing." Come on.

Number of teams with two Cup wins in the lockout era--3.

Number of teams with two Cup wins AND yearly sustained success--2.

There are 27 GMs "dumber" than DL since 2005 (actually, more, but 27 franchises worth of GMs, and the Pens GMs each only have 1, so). Stop being a spoiled fan.



Let me know when we draft Crosby AND Malkin. And calling the Penguins 'consistent winners' while putting down our franchise is laughable. Talking of 'extremely high standards...'

We have people in here *****ing about our one-round and out last year. You really want 10 years of that? Everyone else seems to be suggesting be a contender or rebuild, not do the in-between baloney. People have been actively talking down 'playoff appearances' for the last several months. Hell there's even a thread up poopooing the idea of making the playoffs because we could get a higher pick!

I get the sense of having higher expectations and wanting more from the franchise, but the sense of perspective and context around here is completely warped. Yes, it IS actually a lot to ask for SUSTAINED SUCCESS AND TWO CUPS otherwise lots of franchises would have gotten out of the gutter sometime in the last decade. Plenty of franchises don't even have one Cup and we're talking about teams like StL and the Sharks as if they're the model to follow!

Wait, what?

I don't think I'm being spoiled. I'm just frustrated that we could've done better because it was possible.


I get it it. They have Crosby and Malkin. But that wasn't your argument. You were arguing that they aren't a sustained success. Can you please explain how those stats I showed you are not considered sustained success? It's ****ing true, though. Post lockout, the Penguins' resume dwarfs ours. Outside of the 3-year span from 2012 to 2014, what do we have? No playoff series wins. We had 3 years of elite status (well, since the 2012 playoffs anyway). Don't **** on me for stating that. Ok, I still consider our 2010 and 2011 playoff appearances as the start of our rise so I'm not gonna discount them.

I'm not sure you're getting my point. I am not against rebuilding because this is what we have to do. We have no choice. What I've been saying is that I'm frustrated because Lombardi could've avoided this. He had every chance to sustain success but he didn't do the right things. Rebuilding is inevitable. Its just that we had to resort to it earlier than expected.

And stop bringing up the Blues. They suck. They don't have the sustained success in the last 10 years. As for the Sharks, yeah, they have no Cups but they've always been a threat until they choke. This team should've been rebuilding a couple of years ago but they just know how to find young talent.

 

[fsanford]

Sure, but if anyone was sort of ok with it at the time, it's a little unfair to say he should've known not to sign him. Gaborik had a really good 14-15 season, which will always be the biggest what if season for this core. If they could've squeezed out another Cup that year?

I think I remember being at least 50/50 on Lombardi keeping Richards. Maybe 51/49 in favor. I got what he was thinking when he made the choice. You win 2 in 3, with the way the team rallied around themselves in 2014, the players had some kind of connection. Teams don't do what the Kings did all the time. You can say, yeah, that was unique, and unlikely to happen again, so move on. You can also say, yeah, that team is greater than the sum of their parts, and had some sort of "it" factor, and you want to bottle as much of that as possible.

he f'd up, he used up his get out of jail free card each of the past 3 years, with mistake after mistake. Now you can bet on his recent **** up streak will end next year and keep him another year in hopes his luck streak returns pre 2014.
Or you don't try to bet on when the bad luck streak will end and give him the boot.


The team on the ice screams changes are needed. Given that we are saddled with several bad contracts we cannot change players, that leaves GM and Coach.

This team is a very good 3 on 3 team which sucks because if they were not they would be fighting for a great chance at a top 3 pick. Also there would be no question about cleaning house.

 

[KINGS17]

Well, it was good while it lasted.

 

[damacles1156]

Neither are going anywhere.

Sutter is owed another season money wise before his option. Lombardi will be resigned, or kicked up to a top position, with Blake as the new GM.