Who do you blame for the series loss to the Habs?

[Gallagbi]

Despite this loss, the Leafs were an improved club in many regards. Their defensive play and risk taking has improved all season and continued into the playoffs. Only six players managed to be a minus player at the end of all this. Matthews is leading the playoffs with 14 takeaways.

We can discuss the nuisances of individual players, but the overall problem is Cap-management. Granted I don't think Dubas could of found much better 'patches' to fill the roster, but they simply weren't good enough. Having Spezza is brilliant. Thornton - fail. Simmonds - fail. Galchenyuk - fail. Engvall - fail. Mikheyev - fail. Dermott - fail. Sandin - fail.

You can take a forward like Kadri with no history of any sort of defensive play and wrap them around a player like McDavid. Especially if that's all they have. The idea that Matthews and Marner get stymied by Montreal shouldn't be a surprise. What you need is a bunch of Kerfoot-level/paid players to step up. But the Leafs can't have nice things because of their cap-management.

Did you really just suggest we need less stars so we can bring in more Kerfoots?

I get it sucks watching THESE stars lose every year, but the vast majority of Cup winners are built around stars

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Even if we had price in net -- we'd still lose. Lol!

we are soft in playoffs... period. Overhaul? Yes please.

strip it all down.

Who should strip it all down though. The same guy who built it all up?

 

[Bronxxx]

It’s been observed that only one team with a player making 10M+ has made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs since the hard cap was introduced. We have 3 making 10+. Trade skill for passion and desire. That’s the answer. Dubas created this 3 headed monster. He goes as well as the 3. And if I were GM I’d hire Gallant.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Just want to point out that you have created a faulty poll. Many think Dubas is at fault but also core team members, and you have forced them to chcoose between the two options when in fact both are culpable. This should have been a multiple choice poll.

There are many potential scapegoats if you look back at the series as a whole.

While Carey Price was great if you look at the regular season records this should not have been as evenly played series as it was.

The options are listed in no particular order after the GM and coach options. I'm not saying who should stay, who should go, at least not in this thread. Also some context given to why they are listed, as opposed to a guy like Holl or Kerfoot or Nylander who actually played pretty well.

What I want are some opinions on who they think is most to blame for this 7 games series loss.

Dubas: overpaid is a pretty generic term but Dubas paid more for (Matthews, Marner, and Nylander) and for less years of control than any other their comparable contemporaries (McDavid, Aho/Point, Ehlers/Pasta). He paid for future production and gambled on players who have simply not got it done, handcuffing the rest of the roster decisions and dumping 1st rounds picks just to clear cap room.

Keefe: made the curious decision to make wholesale changes to the lineup after a 4-0 shutout put us up 3-1. One of the changes, Sandin, shat the bed and the rest is history. His respect/admiration/fear of Thornton made him a staple on the PP which was atrocious all series long. Not breaking up Matthews-Marner is another interesting decision; does he fear his "leaders" will revolt?

Marner - zero goals in 18 playoffs games, spoke thru his father in the media during contract negotiations and threatened to sign an offer sheet, the list of criticisms go on and on.

Matthews - after 40 goals in 49 games in the regular season he scored just 1 in 7 this series. This statistic alone without further context could have you lay the blame at his feet.

Thornton - can't keep up, plays like a practice game, does not use his size to physically establish his presence. Had a nice career but is washed up now

Defense - did not play particularly bad and lost Muzzin as well, but compared to the Habs D they were soft and easy to play against

Goaltending - just putting this as an option, but Campbell played well if you look at his stats and how he played compared to Freddie that past few playoff disasters

Bad luck - losing Tavares in the first period of game 1 completely demoralized this team and is the reason they ultimately lost, due to lack of real scoring depth

Other - explain

 

[Menzinger]

Why is goaltending an option on here? Campbell's save percentage was over .950% until the third period of game six.

Unless he should learn to start scoring goals, why goaltending is an option is stupid.

He's the one you CAN'T blame at all.

Yep. He let in less than 2 goals against on average. Neither Campbell nor the defense was the issue even though both had their own errors at different times.

The first line couldn't put the puck in the net. It's really that simple when figuring out what went wrong. The Tavares injury likely also a major factor but the 1st line had ample opportunity to over come that and couldn't do itm

 

[mac nylander]

1 - Dubas overpaying Tavares/M&M
2 - Keefe being outcoached

 

[seanlinden]

I think the blame lies in 3 areas:
- Keefe
- Dubas
- Matthews & Marner's approach.

Keefe - Observed that Phillip Danault was getting the better of Auston Matthews. I believe it was the first Boston playoff series where Matthews basically got used as a sacrificial lamb. He'd go out against the Bergeron line and get shut down / beaten. As a result, JvR-Bozak-Marner put up some pretty big numbers.

Even without JT, the Leafs could have very easily used Matthews as a sacrificial lamb. They had a good thing going with Galchenyuk-Kerfoot-Nylander. Take Marner and put him with Foligno & Spezza.

The Oilers learned this lesson as well -- most teams, if they really want to shut down 1 guy in the playoffs, or 1 line, they can do it. The key as a coach is adapting, and making sure that if you're not going to win the "Line 1 matchup" -- you better win the lines 2 & 3 matchups. Rather than doing this, Keefe started stacking the big 3 together like he did last year with Columbus, rather than separating them out over 3 lines and trusting in the fact that eventually somebody on Montreal was going to make a mistake, and you want one of the big 3 out there when it happens.

Montreal decided they were going to collapse and not let any high-danger passes get through cleanly. High-danger passes are literally how Matthews, Marner, and Nylander score the vast majority of their goals. Putting them together neutralizes all 3, rather than 1 on each line, with some guys who are able to score dirty goals.

Further on the bash Keefe train... his "usage" of his bottom 6. Mikheyev played 13:22, including 12:04 at even strength. Engvall played 12:01, including 11:44 at even strength. Jason Spezza played 11:44, but only 9:28 at even strength. Why it took until the 3rd period of game 7 to recognize that Spezza was worthy of a regular shift is absolutely flabbergasting. The guy was playing great, he's desparate, can both shoot & pass, and he paced at 45 points over a full season.

Dubas - Dubas was dealt a very tough hand with respect to the salary cap, but it was of course his own doing with the size of the contracts he gave out. He deserves a ton of credit for the Brodie signing... but the depth pieces he acquired were basically all flops.

- Plays died on Joe Thornton's stick.. .literally he was dragging down Spezza for most of the season, and a good chunk of the series.

- The Leafs "big july 1 acquisition" was Wayne Simmonds for $1.5m. They got 9 points out of him over 45 games, and 1 assist in the playoffs. Montreal got Corey Perry for half of that salary, and delivered 9 goals, 21 points in 49 games, along with 2 goals & 4 points in the playoffs. Imagine if the Leafs had a Corey Perry battling infront of the net against Montreal.

- Ilya Mikheyev & Pierre Engvall did very little all season, and absolutely nothing in the series.

- Vesey, Boyd also insignificant.

You look at the group that finished the season as the "bottom 6" -- Simmonds at $1.5m, Thortnon at $700k, Spezza at $700k, Engvall at $1.25m, Mikheyev at $1.65m... it's a pretty sad state of affairs when you can only really be excited about the prospect of 1 of them returning at their current contract (Spezza).

Matthews & Marner - These are 2 guys who basically set the division on fire with Marner carrying the pick and finding Matthews. Matthews went out and got phyiscal, thinking that's what he needed to do -- so I give him credit there... but at some point, they needed to have a sit down and figure out how to "do things differently". If they were going to be stuck together, let Matthews carry the puck and look for Marner. No, it's not their "forte" -- but it is something that Montreal may not know how to defend.

 

[Cobra777]

Turning point in this series was the Gally blind blueline pass in OT. and this is not meant to dog on him but you just can't make that blind pass in a playoff game only 1 min in, that snuffed our momentum of a great comeback possibly winning game 5 putting this series to bed and swung the momentum in their favor giving them all the hope and they capitalized. When that happened I just knew it was going to be a super choke.

 

[Gabriel426]

It’s been observed that only one team with a player making 10M+ has made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs since the hard cap was introduced. We have 3 making 10+. Trade skill for passion and desire. That’s the answer. Dubas created this 3 headed monster. He goes as well as the 3. And if I were GM I’d hire Gallant.

That’s something that I have been posting since last year.

 

[makbeer]

In this order:

1. Keefe got badly outcoached and was ridiculously stubborn. He never tried to get our top line away from the matchup that shut them down, he stubbornly kept jumbo on the ice even though he was obviously not able to keep up and worse kept him on PP1. Keefe also failed to take opportunity in game 5 to get Andersen in the game at 3-0 and see if we had anything going with our former starting goalie. This came back to bite the team as Campbell continued to struggle through games 5-7 (.892 sv%) but the team didn't have the confidence to go to Andersen.

2. Marner
Totally sunk his line and killed a crazy number of shifts with careless turnovers and soft plays on the puck. He has no grit/determination, he is out there feeling his way around and hesitating instead of imposing his will on the opponent.

3. Injuries
Tavares gone, Foligno unable to really play, Muzzin gone, and let's not forget Hyman was a shell of himself. He was clearly not ready to come back from his knee injury. Also our starting goalie was injured basically all year and never found his game. I don't think many teams could sustain the injuries we did and advanced.

4. Matthews
He worked hard, he tried to get physical, his linemates were not playing their games - but ultimately he's meant to drive a line and put the team on his back. He has to be better.

5. Goaltending
In the 3 elimination games Campbell was an .892 and faced 83 shots
In the 3 elimination games Price was a .945 and faced 109 shots

He absolutely stole the series and despite playing great to start the series, Campbell was not good enough when it counted.

The game 7 goal was inexcusable - we all know how important the first goal is in a game 7.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Turning point in this series was the Gally blind blueline pass in OT. and this is not meant to dog on him but you just can't make that blind pass in a playoff game only 1 min in, that snuffed our momentum of a great comeback possibly winning game 5 putting this series to bed and swung the momentum in their favor giving them all the hope and they capitalized. When that happened I just knew it was going to be a super choke.

I'd argue the turning point was the poor start to game 5. You knew the Habs were going to fight for their playoff lives, but where's your killer instinct? Why not take it to them and eliminate all hope rather than spotting them a 3-0 lead?

And the start to game 6 was even worse. Very poor response after losing the previous game. Again, no killer instinct and you let Montreal come at you

 

[Cobra777]

I'd argue the turning point was the poor start to game 5. You knew the Habs were going to fight for their playoff lives, but where's your killer instinct? Why not take it to them and eliminate all hope rather than spotting them a 3-0 lead?

And the start to game 6 was even worse. Very poor response after losing the previous game. Again, no killer instinct and you let Montreal come at you

Very True they didn't have a good start as everything the desperate team touched went in, but they took over and fought their way back to tie with OT, had the momentum and once again put doubt in the Habs heads and one min in that happened that big birthday gift the big pin deflated that hope and mometum

 

[StevenB]

They don’t pay me enough to pick scapegoats; all I know is I consistently saw a cocky team full of inflated egos that collapsed and ran when the going got rough. Seeing the guys deflated and depressed on the bench in game 7 rather than fired up told me all I need to know about this team.

Barring any major roster shakeup I don’t foresee myself watching a lot of regular season games. Previously I would schedule my life around the games I could but it feels pointless going forward. I hope the leafs can succeed in the future but I’m done with this hopium.

Everyone from top to bottom needs to be better but gun to my head and I’d pick Mr. 10.893m/year. The same man that has many goals in the playoffs as he does delay of game penalties.

 

[ZEBROA]

Keefe for not helping the players get going. And Keefe and whomever tat was responsible for the PP.

Cant blame Campbell. A good team manage to cover up for the weakest link of the day. But when your supposed strongest links is the weakest game after game the coach needs to make new links to make the chain stronger. That did not happen.

 

[Westlander]

Hate to pick on one guy but it has to be Marner. But it was the top line generally.

 

[Dough72]

same thing as always, the hitting and checking.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

In this order:

1. Keefe got badly outcoached and was ridiculously stubborn. He never tried to get our top line away from the matchup that shut them down, he stubbornly kept jumbo on the ice even though he was obviously not able to keep up and worse kept him on PP1. Keefe also failed to take opportunity in game 5 to get Andersen in the game at 3-0 and see if we had anything going with our former starting goalie. This came back to bite the team as Campbell continued to struggle through games 5-7 (.892 sv%) but the team didn't have the confidence to go to Andersen.

2. Marner
Totally sunk his line and killed a crazy number of shifts with careless turnovers and soft plays on the puck. He has no grit/determination, he is out there feeling his way around and hesitating instead of imposing his will on the opponent. This also limited Matthews' effectiveness.

3. Injuries
Tavares gone, Foligno unable to really play, Muzzin gone, and let's not forget Hyman was a shell of himself. He was clearly not ready to come back from his knee injury. Also our starting goalie was injured basically all year and never found his game. I don't think many teams could sustain the injuries we did and advanced.

4. Matthews
He worked hard, he tried to get physical, his linemates were not playing their games - but ultimately he's meant to drive a line and put the team on his back. He has to be better.

5. Goaltending
In the 3 elimination games Campbell was an .892 and faced 83 shots
In the 3 elimination games Price was a .945 and faced 109 shots

He absolutely stole the series and despite playing great to start the series, Campbell was not good enough when it counted.

The game 7 goal was inexcusable - we all know how important the first goal is in a game 7.

I think this sums up the issues the team had. The question really is how do you fix them if you are Dubas (or any other GM if you hate Dubas). People are lying to themselves if they think another GM was not going to run with Marner/Matthews as their core with this team, and I think ultimately the bulk of the blame falls at their feet for this one.

Is moving Marner enough? I personally don't think more needs to be done beyond that but that is the million dollar question.

I don't think Keefe made crippling errors outside of his utilization of Thornton/Sandin + sticking with Matthews/Marner together when they were not working. However it is not like he overplayed Thornton + Sandin and there are much more egregious mistakes than trusting your stars to perform to even average standards (which they ultimately failed to do).

 

[ACC1224]

Zeke and Dicks say they are still unlucky. Next year for sure.

 

[Atomos2]

The Leafs organization. How do you lose to you biggest rival when you are heavily favoured team? This was an epic fail on multiple levels.

 

[Bluelines]

I think a lot of the loss is on the coaching staff, not just Keefe but IMO he bears a large part of the blame. It's rinse wash repeat with the coaching staff. Throw out the same line combinations, get the same results. We had two lines clicking. same story with Columbus, same story with Montreal. I;ts Ok to break up Marner and matthews for a few games. Spezza was clicking, put him with Matthews for a game. Kerfoot-Miky-Hyman were a pretty effective line, stick them together for a game or two. Our coaching staff made it too easy on Montreal's coaching staff to line match. Once Montreal found something that worked they just rolled it out in game 5, 6, 7.

Nylander (5) - Galy (1) - Foligno (zero) - 6 goals
Spezza (3) - Simmonds ( zero) - Thornton (1) -4 goals

Marner (zero) - Matthews (1) - Hyman (1) - 2 goals
Kerfoot (1) -Mikheyev (zero) - Engvall (zero) - 1 goal

 

[Scott r]

Marner..matthews..also thorton has no business playing nhl anymore. But 34 1 goal 7 games useless

 

[Bluelines]

So, if you hire an employee who stinks at his job, it's his fault not yours? I believe it is the person's job who is doing the hiring to properly evaluate the talent of the person he is hiring. On this team Dubas failed on so many levels.

It depends is it a will issue or a skill issue? Is the employee just a lazy unmotivated asshat or is it because you didn't give him the training and tools to succeed?

If you have the gift of gab, it's easy to con the interviewer, they call them Liarviews for a reason.

 

[Johnnybegood13]

I have no cat to skin here as this is turning into a league wide problem now, Dubas gave your 3 young(and under team control) star players massive contracts before they earned a damn thing, Lou would have never handed these guys the key to the city without playoff success and now these players are spoiled,entitled and aren't willing to go to war for the team. Dubas and the whole management team are the real blame here.

 

[Jarqui]

"Who do you blame for the series loss to the Habs?"

Any answer that suggests one person or thing is responsible because of the poll structure seems very wrong to me.

Price was first star in 3 of their 4 victories. He was the best player in the series. I think he was a significant factor but not a clear option in the poll (goaltending relates to Campbell too who did not play badly).

The Habs were a better team than their record suggested due to injuries throughout the season.

Tavares injury was a significant factor allowing the Habs to focus on defending Matthews-Marner. Injuries to Foligno & Muzzin didn't help.

Leafs coaching failing to get the power play going was a significant factor. Leafs coaching in game 7 - failing to adjust to Montreal's sit back approach was a factor in that game.

etc.

There are a number of significant factors that contributed to the Leafs losing. Addressing only one of them would make it far less likely to change the outcome next year.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Part of me is kind of glad they lost, since it will force some hard decisions and make for an interesting off season. I would prefer that we were up a game or two on the Jets now though.

ya I am conflicted to be honest. I just figured this core would eventually sort it out. I've seen enough from them at this point. I think they are phenomenal players individually, but it takes a different type of player to succeed in blue and white. Dougie and Wendel are 2 of the most iconic and beloved Leafs of all time. Both were talented yes, but they left it all out there. There was absolutely no debate on how much it meant to wear that sweater for them. Same with a guy like Darcy Tucker and Zach Hyman. This fanbase doesn't need high end skill. We need passion and effort. Something that Mitch and Auston are more than capable of and have shown in the past, just never when it counts. on one hand it seems completely premature to give up on a 24 year old Mitch Marner, but on the other hand what else have we not seen?? It's been 5 years of good to great regular season play followed by invisible mediocrity when it counts. I'm just not sure I see that changing for him in Toronto at this point.

The way I see it, if we cannot beat that Habs team with the roster that Kyle assembled, who and when are we ever going to beat? Lets be real, MTL was absolutely terrible games 1-5. And I truly mean terrible. It's embarrassing that we didn't sweep them in all honesty with how MTL played. They gift wrapped us the games and they couldn't take advantage of it. We lost to a mediocre team that played terrible for 5 of 7 games. I'm just over the excuses bit from Mitch and Auston, they say they'll learn from it, but what else was there to learn? I'm just so confused. Couldn't have had a better roster and 1st round matchup and still the same results.