Who do you believe is responsible for the NY Rangers downfall?

[Machinehead]

Don't get a head of yourself. We're not even done with the teardown yet. You dont know they wont be a better team in 2 years. Hell, theyll probably be a better team in 2 months as these these sad sack veterans are starting to go.

In 2010, the team missed the playoffs with an aging and pretty bad group. Outside of 2009 pick Chris Kreider, the farm looked pretty underwhelming. The #2 prospect at that point was probably Evgeny Grachev. The top of the pool was mostly littered with guys who never made it.

Within a couple of months, the team signed Mats Zuccarello. The summer prior they traded for a guy named Ryan McDonagh. A 2008 2nd rounder by the name of Derek Stepan exceeded expectations. Guys like Dubinsky and Callahan were handed bigger roles and hit.

Within two years, the team finished 1st in the East and kicked off their best run of hockey since 1994.

Eventually, when things started to take shape, Dubinsky and Callahan were moved to fill other holes. Three years after the shootout loss in Philly, they traded Gaborik for effectively their top line center in a window-revitalizing move.

There's a bit of luck there, but the point is, you just never know what's going to happen. I mentioned it about the Devils the other day: outside of a few big pieces, very little of their lineup took shape through the draft. You could say the same about Florida besides Barkov (and I guess Ekblad but he's really meh tbh).

Drafting is important and high picks are good. I think when there's an opportunity to step back and pick high, you do it. This year, to me, is that opportunity. That being said, a lot goes into building a team. There's also trades and signings, plus there will be draft surprised along the line, where guys you didn't think are big end up being big.

A lot of people are pushing for them to have a vision. Just being bad isn't a vision.

By all means, don't set a time limit where you have to be good by such and such year, but get good players that fit the vision now and see where that takes you.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, I've mentioned this before: in a vacuum, I didn't hate signing Panarin.

With a better plan, you could have had a really good team coming into contention right now with Panarin still being really good. I didn't hate Kreider either because honestly, he's just not that expensive for this day and age.

They never should have hitched the wagon to Zibaneajd. People warned about that even after some of his best seasons. They should have been more aggressive on bringing in either Eichel or Tkachuk. They did nothing to address a really bad D corps and wasted the cap they needed to fix it on Trouba, who made it worse. They should have been aggressive on moving Kakko as soon as it became evident he wasn't all that, which was like four years ago. I think they've also missed the boat on moving Miller for a piece that could be something, or they're close to it.

I think there's merit to both a slower and a quicker approach to rebuilding, but the issue isn't how fast they did it. The issue is that they took a roster with more holes than cheese and said "welp, that's it, this is the team" and proceeded to just adjust around the margins and fire the coach when the inevitable happened.

Both Gorton and Drury are complicit in that.

 

[NikC]

This organization as a whole.. it’s just run like a high-rent boutique shop in Manhattan, that stays open regardless of their absurd prices and how out of touch they are.. but because the owner is a rich eccentric…

Dolan vanquishing Gorton was at the heels of an embarrassing, emasculating beatdown at the hands of Tom Wilson and the Caps. Dolan had every right to be enraged at the cowardice shown by the club Gorton assembled.

I think Drury is a jerk with players, he’s not a “people-person”… more and more is striking me as a “meat-head”, conceited know-it-all ex-player now management. His return value on trades has been abysmal. He seems to have zero “savvy” and is destroying any trade value from players that have fallen from his good graces. So much of how this “retool” shapes up is dependent on him… I’m not that confident.

Coach and Players

I think we all know what Laviolette would bring. Nothing to see here. He’s a one-trick pony and, honestly, he’s been done for quite some time now.

People talk about how they made it to the ECF the past 3 yrs… with an implosion in the 2nd year I might add… these runs, despite last season were all supplemented with trade deadline acquisitions… Copp, Vatrano, Braun, Kane (disaster), etc.

This core alone can’t get it done. They only had so much talent to begin with, and they’re getting older.. and they’re drying up. They’re quitting on each other, the fans and organization. This is unacceptable!

I am not a fan of the contract Drury gave Igor, but the first priority should be to develop a strong group in front of his $11.5M dollar goalie… or his signing looks like an absolute disaster. Pointless.

 

[McRanger92]

This organization as a whole.. it’s just run like a high-rent boutique shop in Manhattan, that stays open regardless of their absurd prices and how out of touch they are.. but because the owner is a rich eccentric…

Dolan vanquishing Gorton was at the heels of an embarrassing, emasculating beatdown at the hands of Tom Wilson and the Caps. Dolan had every right to be enraged at the cowardice shown by the club Gorton assembled.

I think Drury is a jerk with players, he’s not a “people-person”… more and more is striking me as a “meat-head”, conceited know-it-all ex-player now management. His return value on trades has been abysmal. He seems to have zero “savvy” and is destroying any trade value from players that have fallen from his good graces. So much of how this “retool” shapes up is dependent on him… I’m not that confident.

Coach and Players

I think we all know what Laviolette would bring. Nothing to see here. He’s a one-trick pony and, honestly, he’s been done for quite some time now.

People talk about how they made it to the ECF the past 3 yrs… with an implosion in the 2nd year I might add… these runs, despite last season were all supplemented with trade deadline acquisitions… Copp, Vatrano, Braun, Kane (disaster), etc.

This core alone can’t get it done. They only had so much talent to begin with, and they’re getting older.. and they’re drying up. They’re quitting on each other, the fans and organization. This is unacceptable!

I am not a fan of the contract Drury gave Igor, but the first priority should be to develop a strong group in front of his $11.5M dollar goalie… or his signing looks like an absolute disaster. Pointless.

Drury never retooled the core, he just supplemented it. For that reason Im fine with moving on, but I'd let his last order of business being to find a solution to the mess he created with the Zibanejad contract. I really don't know who is going to replace him though. Hopefully someone who understands the legendary status winning in NYC does for someone.

 

[NikC]

Drury never retooled the core, he just supplemented it. For that reason Im fine with moving on, but I'd let his last order of business being to find a solution to the mess he created with the Zibanejad contract. I really don't know who is going to replace him though. Hopefully someone who understands the legendary status winning in NYC does for someone.

This is critical... does it come at the expense of trading CK? maybe? but you still have to find a guys to play with him. Does Drury try to salvage Mika's career somehow? or does he allow him to languish at the expense of the team? This is a top priority.

 

[McRanger92]

This is critical... does it come at the expense of trading CK? maybe? but you still have to find a guys to play with him. Does Drury try to salvage Mika's career somehow? or does he allow him to languish at the expense of the team? This is a top priority.

You have to get rid of him. Imagine being his teammate and watching a guy with an A like him mope around for years? Kreider needs to go independently of Mika, but these guys existence on the team has created an "18 + 2" situation on the roster. 2 guys do their own thing at the expense of the greater good.



Presented without comment.

 

[noncents]

You have to get rid of him. Imagine being his teammate and watching a guy with an A like him mope around for years? Kreider needs to go independently of Mika, but these guys existence on the team has created an "18 + 2" situation on the roster. 2 guys do their own thing at the expense of the greater good.



Presented without comment.

i feel more and more that the guy our players are commenting on in the room - troch, kakko, miller, cuylle - is Zib.

 

[McRanger92]

i feel more and more that the guy our players are commenting on in the room - troch, kakko, miller, cuylle - is Zib.

1000%. Meeka is sitting on his ivory throne with 5 more years at 8.5 and a full move at his disposal. Why does he have to change his game or get his hands dirty? The money is still green at the end of the day.

Im pro buyout. The guy is poison on the ice and in the room. No amount of dead cap makes it worth it. If Drury can deal him like we did with Gomez back in the day, he deserves an extension.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

In 2010, the team missed the playoffs with an aging and pretty bad group. Outside of 2009 pick Chris Kreider, the farm looked pretty underwhelming. The #2 prospect at that point was probably Evgeny Grachev. The top of the pool was mostly littered with guys who never made it.

Within a couple of months, the team signed Mats Zuccarello. The summer prior they traded for a guy named Ryan McDonagh. A 2008 2nd rounder by the name of Derek Stepan exceeded expectations. Guys like Dubinsky and Callahan were handed bigger roles and hit.

Within two years, the team finished 1st in the East and kicked off their best run of hockey since 1994.

Eventually, when things started to take shape, Dubinsky and Callahan were moved to fill other holes. Three years after the shootout loss in Philly, they traded Gaborik for effectively their top line center in a window-revitalizing move.

There's a bit of luck there, but the point is, you just never know what's going to happen. I mentioned it about the Devils the other day: outside of a few big pieces, very little of their lineup took shape through the draft. You could say the same about Florida besides Barkov (and I guess Ekblad but he's really meh tbh).

Drafting is important and high picks are good. I think when there's an opportunity to step back and pick high, you do it. This year, to me, is that opportunity. That being said, a lot goes into building a team. There's also trades and signings, plus there will be draft surprised along the line, where guys you didn't think are big end up being big.

A lot of people are pushing for them to have a vision. Just being bad isn't a vision.

By all means, don't set a time limit where you have to be good by such and such year, but get good players that fit the vision now and see where that takes you.

The vision they need is focusing on bringing in players who fit a mold. When they brought in Torts, he was responsible for molding a lot of those guys and giving Dubi & Cally bigger roles. Then they supplemented (or in some cases like Gabby removed) with players who fit that vision. In your face, blocking shots, defensive oriented, etc. It wasn't always pretty but at least there was a vision and it made a lot of sense with Hank being the star to try to do what you can to help him win games.

This team seems to have been largely "molded" with a high creativity / potent offense in mind - but the moves don't really align that way. I think it more worked out that way than as to having any real plan. Trochek isn't a guy you sign to fit that mold (although he's worked out), but he's a guy who would have actually fit better on the black & blueshirts team. You don't re-up Igor or any goalie at a wild cap hit when you're meant to be a high-octane offense. You go with a middling goalie cap hit and try to supplement the offense with either a great, puck-moving defender or more high-octane forwards (e.g. Guentzel/Stamkos, etc. - guys who were available this year).

If I was running this team, now that we're stuck with Igor, I would build from the back-end out like we did with those Hank years. Give Igor a real defense along with defensively responsible forwards who pressure the other team (Hagelin esque) and see what he can do. Bring in quality, defensive defensemen and guys who can skate and move the puck out of their zone - not f***ing Lindgren's and co who just flip it up the boards and say a prayer.

On the offensive side, move anyone who doesn't play D or hustle. I'd basically dump them all. Keep Trochek for the rebuild. Chytil, Cuylle, Edstrom and a few others who have potential and play the style we want.

The team needs a vision. Even if it's not the one I share above, then at least something. This team is a random assembly of players who are good at various things and bad at others. There's no surprise to me they couldn't get past a team like Florida or Tampa and it's not a shock to me they are crumbling like they are now.

 

[McRanger92]

The vision they need is focusing on bringing in players who fit a mold. When they brought in Torts, he was responsible for molding a lot of those guys and giving Dubi & Cally bigger roles. Then they supplemented (or in some cases like Gabby removed) with players who fit that vision. In your face, blocking shots, defensive oriented, etc. It wasn't always pretty but at least there was a vision and it made a lot of sense with Hank being the star to try to do what you can to help him win games.

This team seems to have been largely "molded" with a high creativity / potent offense in mind - but the moves don't really align that way. I think it more worked out that way than as to having any real plan. Trochek isn't a guy you sign to fit that mold (although he's worked out), but he's a guy who would have actually fit better on the black & blueshirts team. You don't re-up Igor or any goalie at a wild cap hit when you're meant to be a high-octane offense. You go with a middling goalie cap hit and try to supplement the offense with either a great, puck-moving defender or more high-octane forwards (e.g. Guentzel/Stamkos, etc. - guys who were available this year).

If I was running this team, now that we're stuck with Igor, I would build from the back-end out like we did with those Hank years. Give Igor a real defense along with defensively responsible forwards who pressure the other team (Hagelin esque) and see what he can do. Bring in quality, defensive defensemen and guys who can skate and move the puck out of their zone - not f***ing Lindgren's and co who just flip it up the boards and say a prayer.

On the offensive side, move anyone who doesn't play D or hustle. I'd basically dump them all. Keep Trochek for the rebuild. Chytil, Cuylle, Edstrom and a few others who have potential and play the style we want.

The team needs a vision. Even if it's not the one I share above, then at least something. This team is a random assembly of players who are good at various things and bad at others. There's no surprise to me they couldn't get past a team like Florida or Tampa and it's not a shock to me they are crumbling like they are now.

Good post. Igor is locked in for the next 9 years. Build a team that will keep his sight lines clear and bodies off him in the D-zone, and isn't afraid to pound the opposition on the forecheck in the O-Zone. Between Fox, Lafreniere and Perrault the Rangers should have no issue constructing a top 10 PP. The blueprint is there.

 

[NikC]

You have to get rid of him. Imagine being his teammate and watching a guy with an A like him mope around for years? Kreider needs to go independently of Mika, but these guys existence on the team has created an "18 + 2" situation on the roster. 2 guys do their own thing at the expense of the greater good.



Presented without comment.

yup. can't have your #1 C continually make such poor decisions in the O-zone, like this over, and over again... in critical games. This guy needs a sports psychiatrist

 

[NickyFotiu]

It is quite possible that our last 2 coaches did a good job duct taping and crazy gluing a very flawed roster to get to the Eastern Conference Championships. People want to blame coaches but that may be an easy way out. I think we played way above our skill levels in those 2 years.

 

[Levitate]

They did nothing to address a really bad D corps and wasted the cap they needed to fix it on Trouba, who made it worse.

This team and what it thinks defense should be is just f***in' killing them over and over

Girardi and Staal, Lindgren and Trouba, etc etc

If you want gritty tough to play against defensemen then f***in' find some that are actually good at hockey and then don't hang onto them past their expiration date.

If this team doesn't let Lindgren walk and instead staples him to Fox for yet another year they might as well just trade Fox now

 

[Levitate]

It is quite possible that our last 2 coaches did a good job duct taping and crazy gluing a very flawed roster to get to the Eastern Conference Championships. People want to blame coaches but that may be an easy way out. I think we played way above our skill levels in those 2 years.

eh I dunno, yes and no...I think people have looked down on the skill that the team does have and despite Zibanejad sucking, you still ahd Kreider hitting career highs and shit like that. They were a good team last year that maybe pushed themselves above and beyond their overall talent level to some extent, but yeah a lot of that talent is also at the end of its shelf date

 

[Machinehead]

This team and what it thinks defense should be is just f***in' killing them over and over

Girardi and Staal, Lindgren and Trouba, etc etc

If you want gritty tough to play against defensemen then f***in' find some that are actually good at hockey and then don't hang onto them past their expiration date.

If this team doesn't let Lindgren walk and instead staples him to Fox for yet another year they might as well just trade Fox now

Yeah, the culture on defense has been this way for awhile and it needs to change.

They're dead set on this idea that you can have one puck-mover and everyone else has to be an absolute plug.

In reality, you need a puck-mover on every pair because like...I don't even have to explain that.

And if you're that dead set on grit, like you said, get good players. Radko Gudas has been in the league 13 years. Jan Rutta was good in his prime. It's possible.

At the end of the day, and I know this just me being me, it comes down to analytics which show that guys are preventing chances. It's not hard to find. If they're actually hard to play against, they have a tangible effect on the other team being able to produce. Simple concept.

 

[McRanger92]

The Rangers defense has sucked for years because they play man on man and dont have the athletes for it. Also they've given up their own blueline for my entire adult life. Hasn't matter who the coach or players were. Play good defense by taking away time and space. You can't do that when you are constantly flatfooted like our team.

 

[NickyFotiu]

eh I dunno, yes and no...I think people have looked down on the skill that the team does have and despite Zibanejad sucking, you still ahd Kreider hitting career highs and shit like that. They were a good team last year that maybe pushed themselves above and beyond their overall talent level to some extent, but yeah a lot of that talent is also at the end of its shelf date

I think the team played above the sum of its individual parts. Not saying they were a bad team. Just not as good as the other teams usually in the conference finals imo.

 

[Levitate]

Yeah, the culture on defense has been this way for awhile and it needs to change.

They're dead set on this idea that you can have one puck-mover and everyone else has to be an absolute plug.

In reality, you need a puck-mover on every pair because like...I don't even have to explain that.

And if you're that dead set on grit, like you said, get good players. Radko Gudas has been in the league 13 years. Jan Rutta was good in his prime. It's possible.

At the end of the day, and I know this just me being me, it comes down to analytics which show that guys are preventing chances. It's not hard to find. If they're actually hard to play against, they have a tangible effect on the other team being able to produce. Simple concept.

Even if you have a puck mover on every pairing you don't need to pair him with a guy who sucks just because you think he plays defense

Blocking shots isn't a special skill that they should be paying top dollar for and running that guy out there on the 1st pairing!

I think the team played above the sum of its individual parts. Not saying they were a bad team. Just not as good as the other teams usually in the conference finals imo.

I dunno I think most "good" teams often play above the sum of their individual parts. The Rangers structure for it though was just more shaky I think and it's fallign apart now

 

[NickyFotiu]

Even if you have a puck mover on every pairing you don't need to pair him with a guy who sucks just because you think he plays defense

Blocking shots isn't a special skill that they should be paying top dollar for and running that guy out there on the 1st pairing!


I dunno I think most "good" teams often play above the sum of their individual parts. The Rangers structure for it though was just more shaky I think and it's fallign apart now

I felt we were overmatched vs both Tampa and Florida. Our team largely depended on having better goaltending. Once we went against teams with close to equal goaltending we were in trouble. Most or all of our playoff series wins came against teams with bad goaltending if I recall correctly.

 

[Machinehead]

The Rangers defense has sucked for years because they play man on man and dont have the athletes for it. Also they've given up their own blueline for my entire adult life. Hasn't matter who the coach or players were. Play good defense by taking away time and space. You can't do that when you are constantly flatfooted like our team.

Guys that take away time and space have a measurable effect on their opponents' ability to generate goals.

The Rangers consistently ignore that for the vibe of playing tough, and in turn, bring in players who are actively driving goals into their own net.

Too much good body nonsense. Like we're selling jeans. Like we're looking for Fabio.

Even if you have a puck mover on every pairing you don't need to pair him with a guy who sucks just because you think he plays defense

Blocking shots isn't a special skill that they should be paying top dollar for and running that guy out there on the 1st pairing!

Totally agree!

 

[McRanger92]

Guys that take away time and space have a measurable effect on their opponents' ability to generate goals.

The Rangers consistently ignore that for the vibe of playing tough, and in turn, bring in players who are actively driving goals into their own net.

Too much good body nonsense. Like we're selling jeans. Like we're looking for Fabio.

Totally agree!

Ooh La La Sasson

 

[Machinehead]

I can't think of more of a vibes guy than Jacob Trouba.

At least a guy like Girardi did the things he allegedly did -- it just comes down to how much you value shot-blocking and how much shot-blocking crosses the line into "ok they're shooting too much tho."

Trouba was this big tuff guy who did nothing but look for stupid hits and then get in stupid fights. Meanwhile, he was never anywhere near his own crease, let alone clearing it.

The perfect example of what we need to not be.

 

[Levitate]

Totally agree!

Yeah I'm just really damn salty about the Lindgren shit and then going back to Girardi being thrown out there with McDonagh over and over when he clearly was cooked.

At the time I defended it but goddamn I wish they'd just held onto McDonagh. Even now he'd probably be a better partner for Fox than anyone else on the team

 

[McRanger92]

I can't think of more of a vibes guy than Jacob Trouba.

At least a guy like Girardi did the things he allegedly did -- it just comes down to how much you value shot-blocking and how much shot-blocking crosses the line into "ok they're shooting too much tho."

Trouba was this big tuff guy who did nothing but look for stupid hits and then get in stupid fights. Meanwhile, he was never anywhere near his own crease, let alone clearing it.

The perfect example of what we need to not be.

Worst captain in Ranger history and an enormous fraud.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Yeah I'm just really damn salty about the Lindgren shit and then going back to Girardi being thrown out there with McDonagh over and over when he clearly was cooked.

At the time I defended it but goddamn I wish they'd just held onto McDonagh. Even now he'd probably be a better partner for Fox than anyone else on the team

He definitely would.