Who are your 5th -10th best players ever?

[Lshap]

Genuine question?

Was Esposito ever a better hockey player than Bobby Hull? There's enough vintage games I've seen where Bobby Hull was clearly better than Esposito on the Hawks. He was the driving force. Now Orr comes along and elevates Esposito's production, as does a watered down expansion NHL, with a competing WHA. Hull and Makita who were both better scorers on the Hawks than Esposito can not compete with him once Orr arrives, with Pat Stapleton being the Hawks main rearguard. Espo's 8 best seasons are Orr's 8 Norris years with the Bruins, and then his production drops, as the Guy Lafleur led Canadiens take over the back half of the 70s. Maybe it's the same effect Paul Coffey had on Gretzky and Mario. But Gretzky maintained a decent production rate post Coffey. Mario too.

During that 8 year run, the Bruins only pick up 2 Stanley Cups, compared to 4 for the Canadiens, and 2 for the Flyers, hardly dominating.

Esposito gets credit for his leadership in the Summit Series, but maybe Canada rolls over the Russians with Hull on that team.

Comparing Hull and Esposito is a fun exercise, but unsolvable, because they played such different games. Hull was explosive, Esposito was strategic.

In fact, I'd say one of the reasons Esposito gets forgotten in these discussions is because he was never a highlight-reel player. Watching his clips from over 50 years ago simply don't do him justice. They show a player who was never the fastest (he loped down the ice), never had the slickest moves (he protected the puck with positioning, not dekes), and never had a laser shot (he scored most of his goals up close and dirty). And yet, this unflashy guy had one of the highest hockey IQs ever. Somehow, he always ended up in the right place, with the strength to stay planted there.

Phil and Bobby Orr's primes overlapped almost perfectly, so it's tempting to give credit to Orr at the expense of Espo, but having seen them live I'll insist that Orr benefitted from Esposito just as much. Orr looks much better than Esposito in old videos – as does Bobby Hull – but isolated videos don't tell the story of Esposito's amazing impact over entire games and seasons.

Bobby Hull was a flashy cannonball barrelling down the ice, and he had that sick slapshot. Hull also had Mikita – another underrated legend – however that doesn't detract from Hull's legacy anymore than Orr should detract from Esposito's.

Esposito rose to the top everywhere. He lapped every other Boston forward during Orr's tenure, he stood out even on Team Canada's roster of superstars, and even after being traded to New York, he remained their top scorer into his mid-late 30s. And of course, he was a brilliant motivator and leader, as well as being one of hockey's great personalities. Unfortunately, all we have now are video clips, which don't showcase those exceptional qualities.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Comparing Hull and Esposito is a fun exercise, but unsolvable, because they played such different games. Hull was explosive, Esposito was strategic.

In fact, I'd say one of the reasons Esposito gets forgotten in these discussions is because he was never a highlight-reel player. Watching his clips from over 50 years ago simply don't do him justice. They show a player who was never the fastest (he loped down the ice), never had the slickest moves (he protected the puck with positioning, not dekes), and never had a laser shot (he scored most of his goals up close and dirty). And yet, this unflashy guy had one of the highest hockey IQs ever. Somehow, he always ended up in the right place, with the strength to stay planted there.

Phil and Bobby Orr's primes overlapped almost perfectly, so it's tempting to give credit to Orr at the expense of Espo, but having seen them live I'll insist that Orr benefitted from Esposito just as much. Orr looks much better than Esposito in old videos – as does Bobby Hull – but isolated videos don't tell the story of Esposito's amazing impact over entire games and seasons.

Bobby Hull was a flashy cannonball barrelling down the ice, and he had that sick slapshot. Hull also had Mikita – another underrated legend – however that doesn't detract from Hull's legacy anymore than Orr should detract from Esposito's.

Esposito rose to the top everywhere. He lapped every other Boston forward during Orr's tenure, he stood out even on Team Canada's roster of superstars, and even after being traded to New York, he remained their top scorer into his mid-late 30s. And of course, he was a brilliant motivator and leader, as well as being one of hockey's great personalities. Unfortunately, all we have now are video clips, which don't showcase those exceptional qualities.

It’s solvable , Hull was the better player.

 

[NoelVilla]

Sakic is never in a Top 10. Jagr is 5th. Lidstrom, Bourque and McDavid are there. There is older stars making up the 2 remaining spots. Maybe 3 at the expense of Lidstrom.

 

[wetcoast]

You lost me at “Probably”



Radio. However, as @wetcoast so eloquently points out, there’s a lot of red flags in Phil’s broadcasting skills…

Since Big Phil has only been brought up by several people I'll leave the discussion as is.

But if you look at Phil's career he has Ameh start with a crappy playoff resume with the Black Hawks and I mean utter crap.

Then the Boston years, then not very y great years with the NYR in his aging years when one considers content and overall play, ie not a 200 foot player at all.

If one is comparing or considering any player for top 10,20,30 ect then the assertion of their placing simply needs to stand up to scrutiny and Phil just doesn't do well compared to others in the top 10,20 or even 30 players of all time.

His name being mentioned in this thread stands out as a red flag.

 

[Shroud of Orrin]