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Who are your 5th -10th best players ever?

qcal1427 said:
Ovechkin has 18 individual trophies and has led one of the longest individual runs of team success in NHL history. Leave Ovi out of the top 10 fine, but to claim that it's because of trophies and team success ...
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By “team success” are you just ignoring the playoffs altogether? The Capitals went to the Conference finals once during Ovechkin’s run.

When you limit it to 6 players like the OP did, you’re picking between guys who have individual trophies, skill, team success. It’s an exclusive list. Someone deserving will be left out of each person’s list.
 
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psycat said:
Honest question what separates Lidström from Crosby in your book? Because to me they are about as equal as players of different positions get. Neither have any all-time great peak to speak of, both outstanding careers and incredibly concistent(at a very, very high level of course).

For what it's worth I think neither is in my top 10 but then again I might place more value on peak than most. I just don't see how so many have Crosby as a shoein for top 10 while leaving players with very similiary accomplished careers outside.
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Different positions obviously but Crosby has the Hart trophies and was the face of the league for many years. I agree though that he was no better at center than Lidstrom was at playing defense.
 
GMR said:
By “team success” are you just ignoring the playoffs altogether? The Capitals went to the Conference finals once during Ovechkin’s run.

When you limit it to 6 players like the OP did, you’re picking between guys who have individual trophies, skill, team success. It’s an exclusive list. Someone deserving will be left out of each person’s list.
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I'm tired of people pretending that team success only includes the playoffs. Ovi is 11th all time in regular season wins and only 124th in regular season losses. The Caps have the 3rd most wins since he came into the league (and are about to overtake PIT for 2nd) and the most President's Trophies.
 
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McDavid (I personally put him at 3 ahead of Howe and Orr now.)
Hasek
Jagr
Crosby
Lidstrom
Roy

Last one is the toughest choice for me between Roy or Bourque. Gun to my head I think it's Roy but I wouldn't begrudge anyone putting Bourque there or even higher. It's really tough to make that cutoff at 10 when IMO the drop-off happens at 11 after Roy and Bourque. I think the consensus top 4 + the guys I listed & Bourque are a clear cut above the Messier, Ovechkin, Beliveau, Yzerman, Sakic, Hull, Bossy, Esposito, Lafleur, etc. etc. tier of players, but I don't think much separates the Jagr through Bourque group.
 
5. McDavid
6. Beliveau
7. Richard
8. Crosby
9. Makar
10. Roy/Hasek

It's so hard to compare NHL eras though. The game has change so much that I don't think that it's fair to compare them. With that said, with a mix of accomplishment and talent, that's my top 5-10 from the top of my head.

If you base yourself with accomplishment, the great of the Montreal Canadiens would dominate. Yvan Cournoyer not being in any top10 for example is a part of the problem. If it's pure talent and skills from the eye test, it would mostly be 90's to 25's players, McDavid would be #1 for example.
 
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qcal1427 said:
I'm tired of people pretending that team success only includes the playoffs. Ovi is 11th all time in regular season wins and only 124th in regular season losses. The Caps have the 3rd most wins since he came into the league (and are about to overtake PIT for 2nd) and the most President's Trophies.
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If this was the EPL, he would be Sir Alex Ferguson.

But yes, we actually have playoffs in North American sports and that weighs more than regular seasons.
 
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GMR said:
If this was the EPL, he would be Sir Alex Ferguson.

But yes, we actually have playoffs in North American sports and that weighs more than regular seasons.
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Yea the playoffs certainly matter more. The regular season is a part of it though and I don't know how there's any world where the Caps haven't had team success with Ovi.
 
qcal1427 said:
Yea the playoffs certainly matter more. The regular season is a part of it though and I don't know how there's any world where the Caps haven't had team success with Ovi.
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They've had a good team for much of that period but you can't deny the overall result is very disappointing. One Conference Finals appearance in 20 years with a generational talent who is going to finish with over 1,000 goals. That's a lot of meat left on the bones.

Maybe McDavid is going down the same path but he's played half as long as Ovechkin (not even yet). The other players mentioned all won multiple Cups and Finals appearances.

Bobby Hull has a similar trajectory where Chicago should have won more than one Cup during his heyday.
 
5. Roy/Hasek
6. Hasek/Roy
7. Crosby/McDavid
8. McDavid/Crosby
9. Harvey
10. Bourque/Jagr

HM: Hull, Richard, Belíveau, Ovi
 
5 Lidstrom, Borque - I prefer Nick, but it's really a tossup for #2 GOAT d-man
7 Beliveau - lynchpin of the almost unstoppable 50s, 60s Habs dynasty; Lemieux was cast from the same mold
8 Hasek - revolutionized the position, GOAT goalie for most
9 Crosby - not a huge Sid fan but credit where due; nobody has been so consistent over such a long period during a stellar career
10 McDavid - maybe too early for him to be on a GOAT list, but he handles the puck and processes the play at speed like no player before him
 
GMR said:
They've had a good team for much of that period but you can't deny the overall result is very disappointing. One Conference Finals appearance in 20 years with a generational talent who is going to finish with over 1,000 goals. That's a lot of meat left on the bones.

Maybe McDavid is going down the same path but he's played half as long as Ovechkin (not even yet). The other players mentioned all won multiple Cups and Finals appearances.

Bobby Hull has a similar trajectory where Chicago should have won more than one Cup during his heyday.
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It’s difficult to form dynasties and win multiple cups in a salary cap 30+ team league. I know the Sharks didn’t have a “generational” talent, but if you told me in 2008 that they’d be perennial cup contenders for another decade, I would surely think they would’ve won a cup. What’s more is that Ovi lost out to eventual champions such as those Penguins teams plenty of times, he wasn’t getting knocked out by some underdogs wild card he should’ve beat.

There was plenty left on the table but I can’t call a cup a disappointment in the post lockout era.
 
TheLegend27 said:
It’s difficult to form dynasties and win multiple cups in a salary cap 30+ team league. I know the Sharks didn’t have a “generational” talent, but if you told me in 2008 that they’d be perennial cup contenders for another decade, I would surely think they would’ve won a cup. What’s more is that Ovi lost out to eventual champions such as those Penguins teams plenty of times, he wasn’t getting knocked out by some underdogs wild card he should’ve beat.

There was plenty left on the table but I can’t call a cup a disappointment in the post lockout era.
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One Cup is not a disappointment. Could be more, could be less. However, making the Conference Finals once in 20 years despite having the best goal scorer ever is a disappointment. Even the Sharks made like four or five Conference Finals trips with Thornton/Marleau.

The Capitals had one Flowers for Algernon type run in the 2018 playoffs and did nothing in the playoffs the remaining 14 appearances. It'd odd that they couldn't lose another Final or make a few more Semis at least. And it wasn't always Pittsburgh's fault.
 
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Jagr
Crosby
Hasek
Ovechkin
Roy


McDavid will obviously be on there but I left him off just because he has so much career left. He will probably end up in the 3-6 range when his career is over.
 
Deep Blue Metallic said:
5 Lidstrom, Borque - I prefer Nick, but it's really a tossup for #2 GOAT d-man
7 Beliveau - lynchpin of the almost unstoppable 50s, 60s Habs dynasty; Lemieux was cast from the same mold
8 Hasek - revolutionized the position, GOAT goalie for most
9 Crosby - not a huge Sid fan but credit where due; nobody has been so consistent over such a long period during a stellar career
10 McDavid - maybe too early for him to be on a GOAT list, but he handles the puck and processes the play at speed like no player before him
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Lidstrom was in his prime at the same time as Crosby and no one thought Lidstrom was better.
 
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domiwroze said:
5. McDavid
6. Beliveau
7. Richard
8. Crosby
9. Makar
10. Roy/Hasek

It's so hard to compare NHL eras though. The game has change so much that I don't think that it's fair to compare them. With that said, with a mix of accomplishment and talent, that's my top 5-10 from the top of my head.

If you base yourself with accomplishment, the great of the Montreal Canadiens would dominate. Yvan Cournoyer not being in any top10 for example is a part of the problem. If it's pure talent and skills from the eye test, it would mostly be 90's to 25's players, McDavid would be #1 for example.
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Makar???????????
 
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