Who are the 5 best and 5 worst franchises in the post-lockout/salary cap era?

[PenguinSuitedUp]

I put Chicago before Pittsburgh.

I'll always value the organization that drafted better, created its own depth, mastered a style of play as a team and made savvy free agent signings vs. the ones that lucked into two of the greatest players of all-time, on top of failing to surround them with the right cast. Kane and Toews are great players but they're not Crosby and Malkin. Pittsburgh should have had 5-6 cups. Maybe Chicago would have more with better cap management as well.

Terrible argument. Pens won those Cups with Malkin and Crosby, but also by building the team around them through draft and trade. There are many players this team doesn’t win their Cups without, especially in the back to backs. Even then, in a thread like this, it’s more about the results than how you got the results. And you can’t argue with these results.

Also, saying a team should be devalued for having two of the greatest players of their generation is weird logic. They’re part of the team, so you can’t discount their value. If anything, their legacy builds additional value to the greatness of the franchise.

 

[Beauner]

I put Chicago before Pittsburgh.

I'll always value the organization that drafted better, created its own depth, mastered a style of play as a team and made savvy free agent signings vs. the ones that lucked into two of the greatest players of all-time, on top of failing to surround them with the right cast. Kane and Toews are great players but they're not Crosby and Malkin. Pittsburgh should have had 5-6 cups. Maybe Chicago would have more with better cap management as well.

Drafted better? You mean like guys such as Talbot, Scuderi, Kennedy, Orpik, Letang in 09 and Rust, Maatta, Guentzel, Murray, Wilson, Kuhnhackl in 16/17 didn't play major parts in cup wins?

Mastered a style of play? You mean they didn't play faster than any other team was even capable of in 16/17?

Savvy FA signings? You mean Gonchar, Fedotenko, Sykora, Cullen, Fehr weren't all signed and played siginficant parts?

Yikes. Brutal post

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

It's really hard for me to give credit to teams that just sucked and got lottery wins. I give the Kings organization a lot more credit for their cup wins over PIT. I know they got Doughty 2nd and Kopi pretty high but it pales in comparison to the 03-04-05-06 1-2-1-2 that PIT got.

A lot more goes into a successful franchise than high picks or even generational players. Edmonton is showing that right now.

I put Chicago before Pittsburgh.

I'll always value the organization that drafted better, created its own depth, mastered a style of play as a team and made savvy free agent signings vs. the ones that lucked into two of the greatest players of all-time, on top of failing to surround them with the right cast. Kane and Toews are great players but they're not Crosby and Malkin. Pittsburgh should have had 5-6 cups. Maybe Chicago would have more with better cap management as well.

If this was best team of 2010-15 I'd agree with you. Way too many poor seasons outside of that period for me to put chicago ahead of pittsburgh overall.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I put Chicago before Pittsburgh.

I'll always value the organization that drafted better, created its own depth, mastered a style of play as a team and made savvy free agent signings vs. the ones that lucked into two of the greatest players of all-time, on top of failing to surround them with the right cast. Kane and Toews are great players but they're not Crosby and Malkin. Pittsburgh should have had 5-6 cups. Maybe Chicago would have more with better cap management as well.

No offense but you sound like you know nothing about NHL or the Penguins.

Yes the Pens lucked into Sid and Geno. They also drafted and developed Letang, Orpik, Goligoski, Staal, Guentzel, Rust, Scuderi, Sheary, Maatta, Fleury, Murray, Whitney, Talbot, Kennedy. They've also made smart trades to acquire Hornqvist, Kessel, Kunitz, Bonino, Dumoulin, Neal, Hagelin, Niskanen, Guerin, Schultz, Daley, Dupuis, Hainsey, Hossa, etc. Almost all of these guys were instrumental to winning the cup(s).

So if you think that Sid and Geno are the only reason we won the cups, you are wrong. However, I will give you that Sid and Geno carried the Pens to the 2009 cup. But 2016 & 2017 was a team effort. In fact, the 2016 Pens were arguably the most dominant team in the last 20-30 years.

 

[M88K]

No offense but you sound like you know nothing about NHL or the Penguins.

Yes the Pens lucked into Sid and Geno. They also drafted and developed Letang, Orpik, Goligoski, Staal, Guentzel, Rust, Scuderi, Sheary, Maatta, Fleury, Murray, Whitney, Talbot, Kennedy. They've also made smart trades to acquire Hornqvist, Kessel, Kunitz, Bonino, Dumoulin, Neal, Hagelin, Niskanen, Guerin, Schultz, Daley, Dupuis, Hainsey, Hossa, etc. Almost all of these guys were instrumental to winning the cup(s).

So if you think that Sid and Geno are the only reason we won the cups, you are wrong. However, I will give you that Sid and Geno carried the Pens to the 2009 cup. But 2016 & 2017 was a team effort. In fact, the 2016 Pens were arguably the most dominant team in the last 20-30 years.

What is it with people are overrating pens teams

 

[Beauner]

What is it with people are overrating pens teams

what is it with people throwing 15 year old insults at Crosby that aren't even relavent anymore?

 

[M88K]

what is it with people throwing 15 year old insults at Crosby that aren't even relavent anymore?

Except it's what he's known for, still does, just not as often as he used to. It's still perfectly relevant.

But I get it, you guys are sensitive to it, you hear it alot, ya know because it's what he's known for

 

[rocketdan9]

As crazy as it may sound, we're now a little more than 15 years removed from the lockout season and intro to the salary cap. Hence, I think we're more than far enough into this era to evaluate who the best and worst franchises have been during this stretch. In my opinion:

5 Best

1. Pittsburgh (3 cups, 4 finals, b2b titles, 14 straight PO appearances & most PO series won)
2. Chicago (3 cups in 6 years)
3. Los Angeles (2 cups in 3 years)
4. Boston (1 cup, 3 finals, 2 President's Trophies and 5 Division Titles)
5. Washington (1 cup, 3 President's Trophies, and 10 Division Titles)

HM: Tampa Bay, Detroit, and Anaheim

5 Worst

1. Florida (zero PO series won, 3 PO appearances, only one 100+ point season and 2 Division Titles)
2. Toronto (zero PO series won, 5 PO appearances and two 100+ point seasons)
3. Columbus (2 PO series won, 6 PO appearances and only one 100+ point season)
4. Arizona (3 PO series won, 4 PO appearances, one 100+ point season and one Division Title)
5. Winnipeg/Atlanta (2 PO series won, 5 PO appearances, one 100+ point season, and one Division Title)

HM: Edmonton, Buffalo, and Minnesota

I didn't include teams like the Vegas Golden Knights simply because they weren't around for the entire or almost the entirety of this 15-16 year stretch. Edmonton is lucky asf to have made the 06 finals or else they would've easily been on the worst five list given what they've achieved (or haven't achieved) in years since.

Edit 2.0: One poster suggested putting Winnipeg/Atlanta as one which makes sense given all they did was switch cities so I guess Edmonton is off the hook once again
What are your lists?

Disagree with your 5 worst Oilers is #1. Because no other team has had that many #1 picks (top 5 picks) in the last decade

Sabres haven't made the playoffs since Lafontaine/Mogilny days ... or it seems like

Leafs haven't made it past the 1st round in close to 20 years

 

[MadLuke]

I put Chicago before Pittsburgh.

I'll always value the organization that drafted better, created its own depth, mastered a style of play as a team and made savvy free agent signings vs. the ones that lucked into two of the greatest players of all-time, on top of failing to surround them with the right cast. Kane and Toews are great players but they're not Crosby and Malkin. Pittsburgh should have had 5-6 cups. Maybe Chicago would have more with better cap management as well.

There an argument there that they got the most hurt by the cap than any franchise, they had a rich owner in a big market, I imagine they keep going on with that core longer.

Chicago can go either way because they achieved the highest high, but they missed the playoff 5 times and in the list of team with the most wins during that time frame:
Most win:
Penguins
Sharks
Capitals
Bruins
Predators
Ducks
Red Wings
Rangers
Blues

They are no near the top at all.

Considering that despite not having close to the sustained success than a long list of team during the post-lockout era they do not have more cups than a team that did also won 3 and added one more trip to the final, it is really hard to find an argument to put them above the Penguins.

Crosby/Malkin are superior to the Toews/Kane OK, but they also had more success and the other pair was also gifted to Chicago.

 

[BFLO]

They also got McDavid, Leon & Eberle along with Hall (former MVP), Nugent Hopkins and Nurse all through the draft and they've still won just 1 playoff series in 15 years.

Yeah and? Leafs got Nylander, Marner, Matthews from the draft and Tavaeres from free agency. And have ZERO playoff series wins in 18 years. Compared to 4 playoff series wins for the Oilers during that timeframe.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

What is it with people are overrating pens teams

It is widely agreed upon that the 2016 Pens team is one of the most dominant teams in recent memory. The only team that can be argued to be better are the 2010 Blackhawks.

 

[M88K]

It is widely agreed upon that the 2016 Pens team is one of the most dominant teams in recent memory. The only team that can be argued to be better are the 2010 Blackhawks.

Recent memory and going back "20-30 years" are not the same thing. They're is a whole bunch of teams pre-cap that fall in that 20-30 window that would walk all over that 16 pens.
It'd be hard for me to bet on that 16 pens team against the 19 blues, 20 lightning, or either kings cup team either, but I can see an argument against those team, but going back 30 years theres teams that didn't win is take over that 16 pens team. Hell going back 30yrs give me the 91 pens

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Except it's what he's known for, still does, just not as often as he used to. It's still perfectly relevant.

But I get it, you guys are sensitive to it, you hear it alot, ya know because it's what he's known for

Anything "dirty" you claim Sid does happened prior to 2015.
We get it, you have a blind irrational hatred for Sid. But there's no reason to bring up stuff from 10 years ago to pretend he still does it.

Most players evolve. Yzerman used to a bratty asshole as a young player but he matured. So did Mario. So did Pronger. People mature. Just as Sid has done.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Recent memory and going back "20-30 years" are not the same thing. They're is a whole bunch of teams pre-cap that fall in that 20-30 window that would walk all over that 16 pens

If you said so then it must be true!

 

[M88K]

Anything "dirty" you claim Sid does happened prior to 2015.
We get it, you have a blind irrational hatred for Sid. But there's no reason to bring up stuff from 10 years ago to pretend he still does it.

Most players evolve. Yzerman used to a bratty asshole as a young player but he matured. So did Mario. So did Pronger. People mature. Just as Sid has done.

Diving and crying aren't dirty, I assume you have me confused with someone else

 

[BFLO]

Disagree with your 5 worst Oilers is #1. Because no other team has had that many #1 picks (top 5 picks) in the last decade

Sabres haven't made the playoffs since Lafontaine/Mogilny days ... or it seems like

Leafs haven't made it past the 1st round in close to 20 years

We're not talking about the last decade we're talking about the last 15 years. Try reading the thread title or the OP.

The Sabres playoff record post '04 lockout is 25 wins 22 losses, Oilers 23 wins 18 losses, Leafs 13 wins 19 losses, Florida Panthers 6 wins 11 losses.

 

[M88K]

If you said so then it must be true!

Anyone that takes the 16 pens over the
10 hawks
03 devils
02 wings
01 avs
99 stars
99 avs
98 wings
97 wings
96 avs
91 pens

Is straight up delusional.
I'd also take the
00 Devils,
07 ducks
13 hawks
12 kings
14 kings
20 lightning
Over the 16 pens
But thats just me

Edit forgot a Devils team

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Diving and crying aren't dirty, I assume you have me confused with someone else

Yep, things that people said about Sid in 2010. No one has accused him of either of those things in years.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Cap era:

Pittsburgh
Chicago
Tampa Bay
Los Angeles
Boston

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Anyone that takes the 16 pens over the
10 hawks
02 wings
01 avs
99 stars
99 avs
98 wings
97 wings
96 avs
91 pens

Is straight up delusional.
I'd also take the
00 Devils,
07 ducks
13 hawks
12 kings
14 kings
20 lightning
Over the 16 pens
But thats just me

You're opinion is wrong. And biased.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

5 best

Pens
Hawks
Bruins
Caps/Tampa

Pens above hawks because hawks had some pathetic seasons while pens made the playoffs every year but 1. Kings have 2 cups but they were crap outside of 3 years. They won a total of zero series in the other 12 seasons (missed playoffs 8x, lost in 1st round 4x). If caps/Boston/tampa had zero cups then obviously they'd be below, but 1 cup and a decade+ of making the playoffs and consistent high end regular season finishes > 2 cups and 12 years of crap imo. Tampa has better playoff runs than caps, but caps have better regular seasons and more playoff appearances.

5 worst

Leafs
Oilers
Jets/thrashers
Panthers
Sabres

 

[M88K]

You're opinion is wrong. And biased.

Yeah I'm the biased one..

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I think if you consider off-ice stuff, Arizona is the worst. They were literally owned by the NHL for a bit and constantly threatening to relocate

 

[Maestro84]

Yeah and? Leafs got Nylander, Marner, Matthews from the draft and Tavaeres from free agency. And have ZERO playoff series wins in 18 years. Compared to 4 playoff series wins for the Oilers during that timeframe.

Yeah that's why the Oilers are better than the Leafs in the cap era. But I was responding to a poster who was suggesting the Oilers didn't underachieve with the talent they were able to draft over the years

 

[Maestro84]

Anyone that takes the 16 pens over the
10 hawks
03 devils
02 wings
01 avs
99 stars
99 avs
98 wings
97 wings
96 avs
91 pens

Is straight up delusional.
I'd also take the
00 Devils,
07 ducks
13 hawks
12 kings
14 kings
20 lightning
Over the 16 pens
But thats just me

Edit forgot a Devils team

Well one, you can't compare pre-cap to cap era teams because pre-lockout, you could stack up teams like they do in the MLB. Also, if the Pens were worse than all those teams than doesn't it make their 3 cups even more impressive