WC: Which tournament is more important and more interesting?

[kabidjan18]

Actually, the KHL is not releasing players leaguewide. It's up to the individual KHL clubs to decide whether they wish to release players or not. If a club says they want this or that player stick to his day job, he sticks to his day job.

I've heard so much different stuff about that I'm not sure which is exactly correct I just know some were named.

and Xokkeu, fair enough, I think we all agree on that.

 

[Lepardi]

First of all for the 10th time, KHL is releasing players. Now that that's over.

KHL is releasing players, but do you really think that Dinamo Minsk and Dinamo Riga would be willing to let half of their team go to play for Latvia/Belarus when they've gor their own games to play? That's a bit different than CSKA releasing Radulov. Great as he is, he's not half the team.

12 team tournament, 6 spots up for qualification. 4 day qualification tournament. 6 pools of 3 or 4 teams depending on who registers which would be seeded, not determined by IIHF rankings. Winner of each pool gets a spot.

WHEN would this qualification tournament be held? How would the pools be seeded?

 

[Xokkeu]

I've heard so much different stuff about that I'm not sure which is exactly correct I just know some were named.

and Xokkeu, fair enough, I think we all agree on that.

I hope we can take the NHL on their word that there will be a qualifying tournament in the future.

Hell even baseball has teams like Philippines China South Africa etc trying to qualify. If they can do it. The NHL can.

 

[Xokkeu]

KHL is releasing players, but do you really think that Dinamo Minsk and Dinamo Riga would be willing to let half of their team go when they've gor their own games to play? That's a bit different than CSKA releasing Radulov. Great as he is, he's not half the team.



WHEN would this qualification tournament be held? How would the pools be seeded?

They'd likely hold it a year before but who knows if the NHL can figure it out

 

[FiLe]

I've heard so much different stuff about that I'm not sure which is exactly correct I just know some were named.

I know the Czechs named a couple. Given that both play for the same club, they probably asked that club and got their blessing.

And if the Russians want some, I don't see the Russian clubs refusing if the Russian Federation asks "politely".


But while the World Cup is on, the KHL regular season will run as normal. And therefore, it's a thing worth pondering what stance Dinamo Riga would take if hypothetical Team Latvia asked for what is practically half their regular roster.

 

[Lepardi]

They'd likely hold it a year before but who knows if the NHL can figure it out

A year before meaning late September? Why would European teams release their players for such a qualification tournament? Especially the likes of Dinamo Riga and Dinamo Minsk, who'd be losing half their team?

 

[Lepardi]

I know the Czechs named a couple. Given that both play for the same club, they probably asked that club and got their blessing.

I wonder what would happen if Sobotka for instance is playing for another KHL team in September and they're not willing to release him.

 

[kabidjan18]

WHEN would this qualification tournament be held? How would the pools be seeded?

This would have worked if it had been the plan announced last spring. 4 days in perhaps August or early September, late July, depending on pool size, the beauty of 4 days is that it's so short it's easy to slide in.

The second question is answered in the post you quoted but didn't bother to read.

 

[Lepardi]

This would have worked if it had been the plan announced last spring. 4 days in perhaps August or early September, late July, depending on pool size, the beauty of 4 days is that it's so short it's easy to slide in.

So you think NHL teams would be willing to let their players go to a tournament like this in August or July (having it in early September wouldn't work, cause the KHL is on)? Let's assume that's true. And let's assume that Latvia and Belarus would both bring their A teams to that qualification and both make it to the World Cup. This brings us to the question that I think you still haven't fully grasped: do you really think Dinamo Riga and Dinamo Minsk would be willing to let half of their team go to the World Cup in late September when they've got their own league games to play? If your answer to this question is still "for the 10th time, KHL is releasing players", cause the Czech Republic named Sobotka and Kempny, then I really don't know what to say.

The second question is answered in the post you quoted but didn't bother to read.

The post says the seedings wouldn't be based on IIHF rankings, it doesn't say what the seedings would be based on.

 

[kabidjan18]

So you think NHL teams would be willing to let their players go to a tournament like this in August or July (having it in early September wouldn't work, cause the KHL is on)? Let's assume that's true. And let's assume that Latvia and Belarus would both bring their A teams to that qualification and both make it to the World Cup. This brings us to the question that I think you still haven't fully grasped: do you really think Dinamo Riga and Dinamo Minsk would be willing to let half of their team go to the World Cup in late September when they've got their own league games to play? If your answer to this question is still "for the 10th time, KHL is releasing players", cause the Czech Republic named Sobotka and Kempny, then I really don't know what to say.



The post says the seedings wouldn't be based on IIHF rankings, it doesn't say what the seedings would be based on.

Only the top 6 can fill NHL rosters, hence part of the reason only 6 teams have NTs. The effect of taking the best Swiss players from the NLA would also be a lot of money thrown away, unlike the KHL, the NLA has not given any sort of consent or provision to allow players to play and there would be no guarantee they would. I have grasped your question but none of us are speaking with enough information, and regardless of which of our proposals would be taken the same problems would be incurred.

Ok I reread the way I wrote it, the sentence structure is a little informal and colloquial. What I was saying spelled out was that rankings would be used to seed the teams, but rankings by themselves would not give the teams spots in the tournament.

 

[Lepardi]

The effect of taking the best Swiss players from the NLA would also be a lot of money thrown away, unlike the KHL, the NLA has not given any sort of consent or provision to allow players to play and there would be no guarantee they would.

With this year's World Cup format, the NLA doesn't have to say anything about their willingness to release players, cause no team in the tournament would be interested in these guys anyhow:
http://www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?leagueid=NLA&season=2015
Taking the best Swiss players away from the NLA wouldn't be easy (and this might mean that Switzerland would be missing some players they'd like to have), but it would be a lot easier than bringing the A teams of Latvia and Belarus to the tournament, cause no club team in Switzerland can acquire half the national team the way Dinamo Riga and Dinamo Minsk do.

Only the top 6 can fill NHL rosters

Finland can't fill an NHL roster. At the moment, we've got four NHL defensemen.

 

[FiLe]

Finland can't fill an NHL roster. At the moment, we've got four NHL defensemen.

We have four NHL regulars. But we do have more eligible players under NHL contracts, who can be called up to the league at any given moment - enough to fill out a squad. And contractually, they are no less hindered to play in the World Cup than those regulars. So in that sense it's a valid assessment.

These six teams don't have to go knockin' other leagues' doors, asking to borrow some players, because the NHL can supply all they need - even if some players in those other leagues would be preferable to some of the kids in the farm.

 

[kabidjan18]

With this year's World Cup format, the NLA doesn't have to say anything about their willingness to release players, cause no team in the tournament would be interested in these guys anyhow:
http://www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?leagueid=NLA&season=2015
Taking the best Swiss players away from the NLA wouldn't be easy (and this might mean that Switzerland would be missing some players they'd like to have), but it would be a lot easier than bringing the A teams of Latvia and Belarus to the tournament, cause no club team in Switzerland can acquire half the national team the way Dinamo Riga and Dinamo Minsk do.



Finland can't fill an NHL roster. At the moment, we've got four NHL defensemen.



The sentence strucure was missing a comma. To convey your message it should have read "seeded, not determined, by IIHF rankings" instead of "seeded, not determined by IIHF rankings".

Slovakia also runs a similar problem. Either shut down Slovan, or take players from the Czech Extraliga and the SHL which opens a whole new can of worms with league negotiations.

Yeah, grammatically speaking it might have been better. I was writing as though I was speaking though and the pauses and inflections in my voice would be more easily implied without the extra comma. The meaning you thought originally is best conveyed with no commas. Whatever, my bad, II'll try to write more elegantly in the future.

 

[Xokkeu]

A year before meaning late September? Why would European teams release their players for such a qualification tournament? Especially the likes of Dinamo Riga and Dinamo Minsk, who'd be losing half their team?

I doubt they'd care.

 

[Lepardi]

Slovakia also runs a similar problem.

You think so? Look at these rosters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_IIHF_World_Championship_rosters#Slovakia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey_at_the_2014_Winter_Olympics_–_Men's_team_rosters#Slovakia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_IIHF_World_Championship_rosters#Belarus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_IIHF_World_Championship_rosters#Latvia

I see a significantly larger number of players from Riga and Minsk there than from Bratislava. In Sochi Slovakia had four players from Slovan, while Latvia had nine from Dinamo Riga.

 

[kabidjan18]

You think so? Look at these rosters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_IIHF_World_Championship_rosters#Slovakia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey_at_the_2014_Winter_Olympics_–_Men's_team_rosters#Slovakia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_IIHF_World_Championship_rosters#Belarus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_IIHF_World_Championship_rosters#Latvia

I see a significantly larger number of players from Riga and Minsk there than from Bratislava.

Reread what I wrote. This time it is worded very understandably. With Slovakia you have 2 options. Either A, choose only from Bratislava's roster or B, take players from other leagues like the Czech Extraliga and the SHL in which case you'd have 2 more leagues to negotiate with for the sake of only one team. They would also want Martin Reway from the NLA which would add insult to injury for the NLA.

Lol I can just imagine your eyes lit up when you saw the word Slovan and you thought I was taking the bait for the ignorant people who think all of Slovakia's team comes from Slovan. Sorry, maybe next time.

 

[Jon Riley]

It's obvious that for schedule issues no best on best credible international tournament can be organised without a full cooperation between the NHL and the iihf. At the moment, because of the short-sighted approach that both have, I don't see anything like that happening anytime soon.
So please please please do not touch the Olympics.

 

[CanadaIsIrrelevant]

Most important:
IIHF Ice Hockey World Championships
IIHF Ice Hockey World Junior Championships
IIHF Olympics

Most entertaining:
IIHF Ice Hockey World Junior Championships - hands down

Least important:
2016 World Cup of Hockey - it's a gimmick.
Go back to the drawing board.

 

[VMBM]

lol.


But yeah, right now the World Cup is a gimmick, no other way to put it. If they start consistently doing this every 4 years in the offseason it easily surpasses the World Championships to me. Especially once they get rid of the ridiculous teams and make it the best 6 or 8 national teams in the world.

Right now both are basically irrelevant to me though. The Olympics are a true best on best so they rank #1 to me, then the WJCs, and well after that the World Championships and World Cup. Hell the Frozen Four means a hell of a lot more to me then either of those two tournaments.

Basically this. It's not like the original Canada Cup was the most consistent tournament in the world (first one in 1976, then 1981, 1984, 1987, 1991) and there were some tournaments, when some participant(s) didn't seem very interested (e.g. USSR in 1976 & 1991, CSSR in 1984), but they were usually still good enough to deserve the title of a "best-on-best tournament". Now it is hard to get excited for a tournament that is held randomly once in a decade.

I just hope that the top teams are really motivated and we see some classic hockey nevertheless.

 

[cutchemist42]

Canadian here, and I honestly love how the WHC involves the whole hockey world every year. Following those bottom division movements can be pretty interesting.