its right there, beside the games played column.
you've confused the all star game with the all star team. Shesterkin made the 1st All star team last year.
Which player is more HOF worthy: Jonathan Quick or Marc-André Fleury?
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its right there, beside the games played column.
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
its right there, beside the games played column.
So tell me this, how many wins does Alex Ovechkin have for his career?
Wins are not solely a team stat, it's also a goalie stat
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
I'm in the Fleury had a better career but Quick had a better peak. However, as much as I love Fleury, Quick's peak was much much higher. He was a game changer on a much higher level in those cup years. It's slight but I'd give the edge to Quick. I think they both get in though.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I'm glad people are coming around on Quick. So nice to see. Good comparison though because Flower has had a magnificent career.
I hope MAF pulls it together this year too but Quick looks fantastic thus far and might have another couple of years in the tank for compiling. Let's not forget it's the HHOF not just the NHL HOF and he's got some international accolades as well as compiling Kings and USA records.
The fun part was watching them head ot head when the Kings played the Golden Knights in 2018, both guys turned back the clock for that series.
I think he was at least equal to Hank in 2012 given their teams and any other year he wins that Vezina, he SHOULD have won MVP frankly, Kings dont' even sniff the playoffs without him. There's a VERY strong case that he was a top-5 player in the world in 2012 given his heroics from start to finish.
Unfortunately he had such a bad back (the running joke is from carrying the team) that he was laying down in the aisle on team flights in the playoffs and required offseason surgery, hence the slow start in 2013 and people suddenly mocking him for years...despite having a .951 going into the WCF in 2013, as well.
I hope MAF pulls it together this year too but Quick looks fantastic thus far and might have another couple of years in the tank for compiling. Let's not forget it's the HHOF not just the NHL HOF and he's got some international accolades as well as compiling Kings and USA records.
The fun part was watching them head ot head when the Kings played the Golden Knights in 2018, both guys turned back the clock for that series.
I think he was at least equal to Hank in 2012 given their teams and any other year he wins that Vezina, he SHOULD have won MVP frankly, Kings dont' even sniff the playoffs without him. There's a VERY strong case that he was a top-5 player in the world in 2012 given his heroics from start to finish.
Unfortunately he had such a bad back (the running joke is from carrying the team) that he was laying down in the aisle on team flights in the playoffs and required offseason surgery, hence the slow start in 2013 and people suddenly mocking him for years...despite having a .951 going into the WCF in 2013, as well.
BringTheReign
Registered User
Quick could've easily won the Vezina in 2012, and his Conn Smythe win cemented the fact. If he played for the Rangers I think he almost certainly would have. He was a .929 goalie in 69 games with 10 shutouts during the regular season, and then put up a .946 in 20 games in the playoffs. He was absolutely a top 5 player in the league that year, and the Kings don't make the playoffs much less win a Cup without him. His peak beats Fleury's, but his consistency ain't bad either.
I also find it odd that you worded his 5th place Hart finish as "Top 20."
KoozNetsOff 92
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That's great, but that's 1 year. The post I quoted said 2-3 years. The season after that he was garbage (0 hart votes, 0 Vezina votes). Definitely top 5 player quality.
Quick has 1 top 20 hart finish in his career. Nothing odd about what I said. Actually should have said he's only received hart votes one season of his career.
fleury actually became a huge liability in the playoffs during his prime. most people don't remember this
byrath
Registered User
Four rough playoffs in a row, 2010-2013, the rest of his record is good.
Quick and Fleury are pretty close, both should get in, after Cujo and Beezer finally do
frisco
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Actually--kind of makes you wonder if they'll soften on goalies at some point eh?
Quick AINEC. Fleury was a passenger who on multiple occasions actively sabotaged Pens playoff runs, while Quick actually was a major contributor to one of Kings' cups.
Though to be clear I don't think Quick has a strong case either. He had an imperssive peak without significant longevity, but less so than a guy like Thomas who isn't in HHOF.
Though to be clear I don't think Quick has a strong case either. He had an imperssive peak without significant longevity, but less so than a guy like Thomas who isn't in HHOF.
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Gil Gunderson
Registered User
Except Brodeur has 4 Vezinas and was a starter for 3 Cups. Fleury overall was a decent goalie who was a starter for 1. I've lost count how many times he's lost his starting job.
Video Nasty
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Sometimes when we have an example like Fleury, someone who has played his entire career this century, with all the games available to watch, meticulous record keeping, countless articles that have been written, thoughts in the moment that can be pulled up if someone wanted to dig at all, and the internet at our fingertips at any given millisecond we desire, it really makes me wonder how many other players of the far flung past have overblown, false reputations championed by people in a similar fashion to current day Fleury. It’s so easy to call people on this BS and you have so called professionals peddling these stances.
It’s always been baffling how much longevity, team accomplishments, and a smile seduce people into thinking Fleury is a great goalie, let alone a Hall of Fame worthy (yes, he’s sadly a shoo in).
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
He's somewhere around 30 wins behind Roy for 2nd all time, he may not be in the conversation for best ever but he's probably hall worthy..... eventually lol
HarrySPlinkett
Not a film critic
It is utter nonsense that either of these goalies could be considered anything other than locks for the Hall of Fame.
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Nasti
Registered User
It could easily be argued that Quick had the highest peak of any goalie of his era. He could have (should have IMO) won the Vezina in 2012 and then went on to have the greatest statistical playoff run in history. He then carried the Kings to the Conference Final in 2013 before another cup win in 2014. He’s the definition of big game player.
JackSlater
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Quick if one had to get in. Fleury managed to hang around forever but in all honesty if I was the fan of a contending team there is no point in his career where I would want him as my goaltender.
Rodgerwilco
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Kinda surprised the voting is this close... I figured the obvious choice is Fleury by a mile.
EDIT: I also find it pretty insane that people are saying the #3 All-time win leader (may end at #2) with 3 cups and a vezina, and probably the most popular guys in the league doesn't deserve the Hall. If you don't put MAF in the hall they might as well just stop inducting goalies altogether.
EDIT: I also find it pretty insane that people are saying the #3 All-time win leader (may end at #2) with 3 cups and a vezina, and probably the most popular guys in the league doesn't deserve the Hall. If you don't put MAF in the hall they might as well just stop inducting goalies altogether.
This is a really common misconception about the Penguins "failures" throughout those years. He was rarely to blame for the Penguins losing series. That's not to say he played at the top of his game every season, but those Penguins teams had mountains of other issues that it would be foolish to expect MAF to have been able to single-handedly overcome.
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Video Nasty
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It’s more insane to look at his stats and accomplishments at surface level.
1. He has played virtually his entire career where a decision is given in every game. Do you know how many extra win opportunities post lockout goalies have who don’t deal with Ties eating into their Win totals?
2. Pittsburgh won in spite of him in 2009. He had 4 horrendous postseasons in a row and yes, he was the main culprit the Penguins kept getting bounced early. He lost his job during 2 out of 3 Cup winning runs. In 2016, he played 78 minutes total. He didn’t play a single second in the Finals in either 2016 or 2017. He let up 20 goals in 5 games and was the reason Vegas lost to Washington in 2018. Yet people blow the horn and throw down the red carpet for the “3 time Cup Winner” as if he is Patrick Roy.
3. It took him until he was 36 to become a Vezina finalist, which is also his lone win. He’s played 19 seasons and he’s managed this and leading the league in a major statistical category one time (shutouts)? A decent netminder who loses his job more often than being a significant reason why his team wins the Cup? We’re supposed to swoon over this?
Rodgerwilco
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Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
He literally came off back surgery so his reg season numbers were down until April before he went nuclear in the playoffs again. You're right though--definitely top 5 player quality. Ask the Blues and Sharks how bad he was in 2013 (before he got run into the Hawks' woodchipper and STILL finished the playoffs at .934). people were talking about a possible back-to-back Conn Smythe before the team got decimated.
