Which parts of Toronto are the main ice hockey areas, etc.?

[plusandminus]

Toronto obviously is the biggest town in Canada, and often mentioned as the "capital of ice hockey".
In Sweden, Stockholm has got several ice hockey clubs, like Djurgården, AIK, Hammarby and so on. In North America, there seem to be more focus on "markets" and "franchises". So since many years back, Toronto "only" have one NHL team. I suppose New York is the only team to have two.
Sweden also do not have a closed league system, so teams can move up and down from season to season. There might be 0-2 (or even more) Stockholm clubs in our highest league during a certain season.

Questions...
1. If dividing Toronto into several parts/areas/teams, which ones would be the biggest regarding interest, talent pool, etc.?
2. When Toronto kids grow up... Are there many different teams around to play for? Which ones are the best? (For example, Stockholm probably have dozens or more hockey kids clubs. It's not necessarily the big clubs that dominate.
3. If you would have 2-3 NHL teams from Toronto, which parts/areas would they represent? (Those familiar with football/soccer, might know that Manchester have City and United. Liverpool have Liverpool and Everton...) Which local rivalries could there be? (Let's say Maple Leafs would be no more, an

4. What about Mississauga? I googled it, and it seem to have a NBA team. But regarding hockey, could Mississauga have been one of 3-4 arch rivals in a Canadian league where the markets and franchising would not be so central?

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[PunchImlach is Alive]

Everywhere except the Leafs locker room

 

[Leafs87]

A second team in Toronto/GTA wouldn’t work. The interest in hockey overall is sadly declining and the Leafs have a lot of generational fans. The new team would have to compete with them and draw in new fans. Torontonians are very indebted right now and I couldn’t think of a worse time for this experiment. Even the Leafs are heavily lifted by corporations washing their taxes with corporate tickets/boxes.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

If they did get a second team it would probably have to be in Vaughn. I heard that's a pretty rich place.

 

[Hockeyholic]

A successful second team would immediately bring over Leaf fans. Assuming Leafs were struggling..

Jmo.

 

[jetsforever]

In all the North American cities with 2 teams in the same sport (except possible Chicago MLB), one of the teams is much less popular, pretty irrelevant, and usually mocked. A 2nd Toronto team would probably be that.

(also I wouldn't call Toronto a "town")

 

[plusandminus]

A second team in Toronto/GTA wouldn’t work. The interest in hockey overall is sadly declining and the Leafs have a lot of generational fans. The new team would have to compete with them and draw in new fans. Torontonians are very indebted right now and I couldn’t think of a worse time for this experiment. Even the Leafs are heavily lifted by corporations washing their taxes with corporate tickets/boxes.

Okay. But what about hockey among kids? In which areas is the interest the greatest?

I also read about demographics and it seems white people are now about 43 % or so. Lots of people seem to have Asian background. So I suppose hockey is bigger in "white areas" (which ones?) than "Asian areas" (which ones?)?

 

[plusandminus]

A successful second team would immediately bring over Leaf fans. Assuming Leafs were struggling..

Jmo.

What about Mississauga? (It seems to be a city/town on its own, but on the map it also seem to be a part of "greater Toronto" or something.)

If we would think of an NHL where money, markets and franchising is of little concern..? A league where talent pool and die hard interest would instead be the main thing? Which areas of "greater Toronto " would then have teams?

 

[plusandminus]

If they did get a second team it would probably have to be in Vaughn. I heard that's a pretty rich place.

Thanks.
What about kids? I suppose the teams aren't named Maples Leafs 1, Maple Leafs 2, Maple Leafs 3 and so on..? Do the names of the teams reflect the area they play in or so?

 

[Leafs87]

Okay. But what about hockey among kids? In which areas is the interest the greatest?

I also read about demographics and it seems white people are now about 43 % or so. Lots of people seem to have Asian background. So I suppose hockey is bigger in "white areas" (which ones?) than "Asian areas" (which ones?)?

Honestly not sure. Hockey is still very popular in Northern Ontario. Whether that’s demographically charge or economically charge it’s hard to say. Those areas aren’t as indebted and can afford the sport. The Mississauga, Toronto, Markham is where most of the top talent ends up regardless of where they grew up. Hard to say those 3 markets have the most devoted hockey markets, just have the best resources and highest visibility to scouts. Perfect example is McDavid. Grew up in Newmarket and moved to Toronto when he knew scouts would be watching closely using his Grandmas address. Same goes for Domi and a bunch of others.

 

[KeydGV21]

In all the North American cities with 2 teams in the same sport (except possible Chicago MLB), one of the teams is much less popular, pretty irrelevant, and usually mocked. A 2nd Toronto team would probably be that.

(also I wouldn't call Toronto a "town")

Admittedly they all came in the same year and thus won a World Series, but the White Sox have three series wins since Armistice Day…they aren’t the exception to being less popular or irrelevant, they are the definition of being less popular and irrelevant.

Most of the other teams are going against teams with long traditions of winning…of course the Mets/Jets fair poorly compared to the Yankees/Giants. Same with the Clippers compared to the Lakers.

A second team in Toronto is trying to compete in market with a team who hasn’t won a championship since the league was smaller than current divisions…it’s an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Toronto is located in the Province of Ontario which has a Junior league (OHL) that sends more young players (17-22) to the NHL than any other league in the world. It has teams all over Ontario and a few from the Northern U.S. so the talent is spread around. Saying that, the Greater Toronto Hockey League (ages 6-17 and formerly known as the MTHL) has more alumni in the NHL than any other minor league system. McDavid, Bennet, Marner, Pietrangelo among others all came from this league, so did Gretzky and Lindros.

78 GTHL alumni included on 2022-23 NHL opening night rosters – GTHL

gthlcanada.com

As for NHL competition, probably won't ever happen, according to the NHL constitution Toronto and Buffalo have territorial rights I doubt they will ever relinquish though the NHL league disputes that claim. It would be a long costly fight at the very least, something the NHL probably wants to avoid unless absolutely necessary.

Hamilton, a city an hour away from Toronto tried getting an NHL team and even built a 17 000+ capacity arena to do so, but they lost out to Ottawa and TB in 1990. Hamilton did have an NHL team a century ago from 1920-1925.

As for arenas, Canada probably has the most at 2776. Every small town in the country has one. The Junior teams have ones with approx 1000+capacity, major teams have arenas that hold roughly 5k give or take a few. Then there's AHL and ECHL teams. Hockey isn't really concentrated in Toronto, it's popular all over the province and the country. Lots are NHL players come from small Canadian towns, though I guess the Toronto area has more than anywhere else.

4. What about Mississauga? I googled it, and it seem to have a NBA team. But regarding hockey, could Mississauga have been one of 3-4 arch rivals in a Canadian league where the markets and franchising would not be so central?

Mississauga is a suburb of Toronto and does not have an NBA team. The Toronto Raptors play out of the same facility as the Leafs. Scotiabank Arena.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Okay. But what about hockey among kids? In which areas is the interest the greatest?

I also read about demographics and it seems white people are now about 43 % or so. Lots of people seem to have Asian background. So I suppose hockey is bigger in "white areas" (which ones?) than "Asian areas" (which ones?)?

They're aren't any "white areas" in the Toronto and suburbs area, it's pretty diverse all over.

 

[plusandminus]

...

78 GTHL alumni included on 2022-23 NHL opening night rosters – GTHL

gthlcanada.com

...
Hamilton, a city an hour away from Toronto tried getting an NHL team and even built a 17 000+ capacity arena to do so, but they lost out to Ottawa and TB in 1990. Hamilton did have an NHL team a century ago from 1920-1925.
...
Mississauga is a suburb of Toronto and does not have an NBA team. The Toronto Raptors play out of the same facility as the Leafs. Scotiabank Arena.

Thank you for interesting info, including the link. I have now started trying to link the teams to specific areas.

Regarding the NHL, it really seems to be about money, markets, franchises and rich owners. (Very different from Swedish ice hockey.)

I am rather looking at talent pool and interest, in a world where money would not talk loud. Like "What would a league look like if we based it on talent pool and hockey interest?". Let us say that the league will have 12-16 teams, or more/less if we prefer.

For example, a team from Saskatchewan probably would fit in? Toronto would probably have more than one team? But from which areas in Toronto would those teams come? (Let's - for this little thought exercise only - pretend there is not Maple Leafs.)

 

[SUX2BU]

Yeah, it’s a real big town

 

[Demigod11]

Toronto obviously is the biggest town in Canada, and often mentioned as the "capital of ice hockey".
In Sweden, Stockholm has got several ice hockey clubs, like Djurgården, AIK, Hammarby and so on. In North America, there seem to be more focus on "markets" and "franchises". So since many years back, Toronto "only" have one NHL team. I suppose New York is the only team to have two.
Sweden also do not have a closed league system, so teams can move up and down from season to season. There might be 0-2 (or even more) Stockholm clubs in our highest league during a certain season.

Questions...
1. If dividing Toronto into several parts/areas/teams, which ones would be the biggest regarding interest, talent pool, etc.?
2. When Toronto kids grow up... Are there many different teams around to play for? Which ones are the best? (For example, Stockholm probably have dozens or more hockey kids clubs. It's not necessarily the big clubs that dominate.
3. If you would have 2-3 NHL teams from Toronto, which parts/areas would they represent? (Those familiar with football/soccer, might know that Manchester have City and United. Liverpool have Liverpool and Everton...) Which local rivalries could there be? (Let's say Maple Leafs would be no more, an

4. What about Mississauga? I googled it, and it seem to have a NBA team. But regarding hockey, could Mississauga have been one of 3-4 arch rivals in a Canadian league where the markets and franchising would not be so central?

Toronto has never been the capital of Hockey. It's always been Montreal ever since the first ever hockey game.

 

[Drake1588]

With suburbs and metro stats, the "town" of Toronto has about the same number people in it as Sweden, and nearly 1/3 the population of Canada. It's quite sprawling and wraps around the western shore of Lake Ontario, from which the region gets its colloquial name, the Golden Horseshoe. There are cities that effectively serve as Toronto suburbs like Mississauga, Oakville, Burlington, Brampton, Vaughn, Richmond Hill, Markham, and at the extreme southern edge, Hamilton. A little west and more detached from the megalopolis are Kitchener-Waterloo and Guelph. Depending on how many of those you add together, you get a number that is greater than 10 million people. Hockey is played extensively in all of them, especially at the atom/bantam equivalents, and at the Junior levels (OHL). There is also an AHL team in Toronto.

Hockey is very popular as a sport you watch and a sport where kids play in all of those regions. There isn't one region, per se, where demographically immigrants who don't like hockey all live, for example, and others that are all multi-generation Canadians. It's all fairly diverse in all regions, and hockey is popular in all of them. In general, other sports have been gaining more traction and people follow more than just hockey now. That's true everywhere in the region, not localized in a few places. Hockey is the one sport that is exceedingly expensive to play, and you need the venues and infrastructure to play it, so socio-economically, the underprivileged struggle to play it, I suppose. Basketball and soccer are growing in popularity, both playing and watching pro teams.

There are enough hockey fans in the region, and it's spread out enough, that multiple groups have tried to attract another NHL team at various times. Yet for various reasons, it's never made it past the finish line. Sometimes there hasn't been an owner to push for it who didn't rub people the wrong way, or a proper building, or NHL office interest. Sometimes there has been too much opposition from the Maple Leafs and nearby Buffalo.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Admittedly they all came in the same year and thus won a World Series, but the White Sox have three series wins since Armistice Day…they aren’t the exception to being less popular or irrelevant, they are the definition of being less popular and irrelevant.

Most of the other teams are going against teams with long traditions of winning…of course the Mets/Jets fair poorly compared to the Yankees/Giants. Same with the Clippers compared to the Lakers.

A second team in Toronto is trying to compete in market with a team who hasn’t won a championship since the league was smaller than current divisions…it’s an apples to oranges comparison.

New Jersey Giants are an odd case. They have their wins, but they suck in the time between them.