Speculation: Which one do you take if any?

[Doug Prishpreed]

yea... but my feeling is that Jack is going to dominate with most any linemates... so pump those guys up early next year. Increase their trade value, after half a season... we'll have a better idea of true needs. And then we can Trade them for assets.

File under: what I thought we were going to do LAST season.

I'm so angry at Murray for not firing Bylsma earlier. I loved a lot about Murray but he was so blind in that regard.

 

[wunderpanda]

Had Sam established himself over the last 3 years, there wouldn't be a debate about what to do with him. He was drafted to be a top 6 center, that won't happen with Jack & ROR ahead of him in Buffalo.

 

[Samsonite23]

That article is hilarious.

 

[sabrebuild]

Sorry but none of Anahaim, Nashville, Pittsburg, Washington, Edmonton or St Loius have a 3C the level of Reinhart and they are still in the playoffs. Most seem to go for a gritty vet in that position. The narrative here doesn't fully match reality of what is happening in these teams. Even where these teams hve someone that can play that role they run him as winger (Draisaitl or Rakell for example). Im sorry but for me personally Reinhart doesn't excel as a winger and it has kind of shown in the last two seasons. He's expendable valuable asset. I know half the people here disagree but the other half seems to be willing to trade him if needed. Don't think trying to impose someone's opinion as more correct than others is fair when we are all using the same tools to assess the situation.

I suspect some of our tools are not the same.

 

[enthusiast]

Inside a Dan Bylsma vacuum.

I mean, center is a strength of this roster any way you slice it. ROR, Eichel, Reinhart, Lars, assorted youth.

If Bylsma leaving is going to make the D considerably better, I guess it's not a weakness, but I'm not that confident.

At the end of the day the only trade I consider for Reinhart is one I think makes the team better now and at least as good in the future. Hanifin is the only available D that I can see as someone who in 4 or 5 years won't make someone say "lol they traded Reinhart for him"

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I'm not sure there are any people outside this thread who think a guy with a hair under 100 pnts in his first 2 seasons, who played out of his natural position for both years, is undervalued around the league. There's top 4 D being offered with their fans willing to add to get him. He's probably the second most valuable forward with his name as a possible trade target.

I'm also not sure if there's anyone outside this thread more willing to sell sam as all upside while hanafin is mind blowingly poor asset management down side. That screams people in love with their guy who aren't looking at this fairly. But then the people leading the charge are not surprisingly either huge Reinhart fans or haters.

It's a fine swap of young players with the hope that the guy you end up with develops the way you expect. Hanafin develops and he's on our top pair for decade, Reinhart develops he's our #2 center. On that alone I'd roll with Hanafin. Hanafin's upside is the only thing about trading Sam that makes this paletable. Not interested in the other options. I'll gamble on Sam before going for the other options.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

http://www.canescountry.com/2017/4/...grade-carolina-hurricanes-defense-brett-pesce

Pair Hanifin with Risto = profit according to the info in this article's assessment. This would definitely be something I'd look forward to for next season if it happens. Not that Reinhart is not exciting...but one excites me more than the other as long as you can sort out a competent second pair behind them from McCabe and 1 of Bogo/Antipin.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Difference is I didn't state Hanifin is ahead in development compared to Sam. So I have nothing to check or argue about. You guys are making random unsupported statements as if they are fact and not just your opinions. Reinhart has trade value to get you Hanifin as he can become to 2C on another team which makes him more valuable to them than he is to us the same way Hanifin is more valuable to us than he is to Carolina. Where exactly is the contradiction?

Or the Sabres keeps Reinhart and lets him develop into the 2C in Buffalo. And then teams won't match up with them well.

 

[DJN21]

If I'm getting tuch back with Brodin I take that and run. I don't think it's realistic though.

If not, then a signed fowler is the answer...bur you're not getting a 2nd back wit him I guarantee that.

That being said I don't think we can negotiate a sign and trade either as fowler is gonna ask for 7 million so in that event I'd choose hanifan straight up.

To many variables to make a cut and dry poll.

 

[OkimLom]

http://www.canescountry.com/2017/4/...grade-carolina-hurricanes-defense-brett-pesce

Pair Hanifin with Risto = profit according to the info in this article's assessment. This would definitely be something I'd look forward to for next season if it happens. Not that Reinhart is not exciting...but one excites me more than the other as long as you can sort out a competent second pair behind them from McCabe and 1 of Bogo/Antipin.

So we're still trying to fix our defense even after the trade of Reinhart?

Listen, I love Hanifin as much as the next guy and agree that if you're trading Reinhart, a guy like Hanifin is a target that fits both teams. I do think we're making too big of a reactionary move for fixing part of our team that I believe doesn't need to sacrifice one of our big assets and you could you lesser assets to achieve the same goal, improving our defense. The easiest, and now most likely, improvement from our defense is the change in coaching. That alone will make our current guys raise their stock.

At the end of the day, Hanifin is more than likely not available from Carolina's side.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Or the Sabres keeps Reinhart and lets him develop into the 2C in Buffalo. And then teams won't match up with them well.

People keep saying that as if we dont have 1C and 2C sorted already in Jack and ROR.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

If I'm getting tuch back with Brodin I take that and run. I don't think it's realistic though.

If not, then a signed fowler is the answer...bur you're not getting a 2nd back wit him I guarantee that.

That being said I don't think we can negotiate a sign and trade either as fowler is gonna ask for 7 million so in that event I'd choose hanifan straight up.

To many variables to make a cut and dry poll.

Tuch add was proposed by 1 Minny fan, agreed on by 1 more and shot down by I think nobody from their side. They do it it seems and this is the option I like most. Guess they are not that high on Tuch but he hasnt played at NHL level so its not clear how his game will ttanslate - boom or bust are both possible still. If hes a bust you jjst traded Brodin for Reinhart which is a rip off I admit. Bit if he is a boom you get a good winger to replace Reinharts current role on top of a Top3D. Its risky but dont know if its more risky than just taking Hanifin. The poll clearly suggests Hanifin is better path.

 

[wunderpanda]

If the majority is against trading Sam because he can be a top 6 center, and the majority is against trading Jack, is it time to consider trading ROR instead? That $7m would come in handy sooner rather than later.

They are all best at center, for different reasons. I'd rather keep ROR, but theoretically Sam could be the cost controlled 2C (with Jack as 1C).

 

[Aladyyn]

If the majority is against trading Sam because he can be a top 6 center, and the majority is against trading Jack, is it time to consider trading ROR instead? That $7m would come in handy sooner rather than later.

They are all best at center, for different reasons. I'd rather keep ROR, but theoretically Sam could be the cost controlled 2C (with Jack as 1C).

Maybe we shouldn't be trying to trade our best players :O

 

[krt88]

Trade Kane or other assets. Not trading Reinhart for those guys.

yep it's just that simple

No way Anaheim is trading Fowler + for Reinhart.

Love how Minnesota has to throw in a strong propsect with the deal.

just talk to all the teams and figure out what is out there. And stop with the pointless polls.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Maybe we shouldn't be trying to trade our best players :O

with a straight face tell me that if we had Hanafin there wouldn't be threads railing against trading our top players

actually there's not much point because im suggesting I already know the answer and any other reply would be you lying

If Hanafin was picked at 2 and Reinhart was picked at 4 then we'd be as attached to Hanafin as we are Reinhart, there might be different posters on different sides, but the arguments would all be the same

this trade is about roster building and a bit of risk shifting, its trading an apple for an apple, we arent dealing a top player for picks and unknowns, a top 6 center is being dealt for a top 4 D, Sam is safe, Hanafin plays a more valuable position, swapping a player with a defined floor, for a player in a more expensive position

 

[Aladyyn]

with a straight face tell me that if we had Hanafin there wouldn't be threads railing against trading our top players

actually there's not much point because im suggesting I already know the answer and any other reply would be you lying

If Hanafin was picked at 2 and Reinhart was picked at 4 then we'd be as attached to Hanafin as we are Reinhart, there might be different posters on different sides, but the arguments would all be the same

this trade is about roster building and a bit of risk shifting, its trading an apple for an apple, we arent dealing a top player for picks and unknowns, a top 6 center is being dealt for a top 4 D, Sam is safe, Hanafin plays a more valuable position, swapping a player with a defined floor, for a player in a more expensive position

The timing is all wrong. -Reinhart +Hanifin doesn't make us a playoff team next year, if anything it's more likely to make the team worse. Why rush? Let Reinhart have his breakout year, try to fix the defense in different ways and if that doesn't work out, you can explore trading a more valuable version of Reinhart.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

yep it's just that simple

No way Anaheim is trading Fowler + for Reinhart.

Love how Minnesota has to throw in a strong propsect with the deal.

just talk to all the teams and figure out what is out there. And stop with the pointless polls.

Maybe check the trade board. Evetything I put in the OP had some form of agreement from other teams fans. Tuch was suggested as an add by Minny fans.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

The timing is all wrong. -Reinhart +Hanifin doesn't make us a playoff team next year, if anything it's more likely to make the team worse. Why rush? Let Reinhart have his breakout year, try to fix the defense in different ways and if that doesn't work out, you can explore trading a more valuable version of Reinhart.

my issue is entirely that people are sold that Reinhart is going to evolve into this next tier player and sold that Hanafin won't

there's a deal that seems like its on the table that returns a high ceiling defender, a huge haul that comes at a huge price

I believe that you win in the NHL by having 2 top C (Jack and ROR) and 4 D of at least #3 caliber, yes I trade Sam, yes it will keep me up at night, and even if it fails I'll make the same trade tomorrow, if both players hit their ceiling i'd rather have the D then the F, if neither player ever takes another step then i'd also still rather have the D then the F

its a ballsy trade and im not normally a ballsy guy, but on this one i think the conservative move is to make the trade for the defender rather than hope you can build a 3 line dynamo

 

[Aladyyn]

yep it's just that simple

No way Anaheim is trading Fowler + for Reinhart.

Love how Minnesota has to throw in a strong propsect with the deal.

just talk to all the teams and figure out what is out there. And stop with the pointless polls.

You mean no way Buffalo is trading Reinhart for Fowler unless the + is actually Hampus Lindholm.

my issue is entirely that people are sold that Reinhart is going to evolve into this next tier player and sold that Hanafin won't

there's a deal that seems like its on the table that returns a high ceiling defender, a huge haul that comes at a huge price

I believe that you win in the NHL by having 2 top C (Jack and ROR) and 4 D of at least #3 caliber, yes I trade Sam, yes it will keep me up at night, and even if it fails I'll make the same trade tomorrow, if both players hit their ceiling i'd rather have the D then the F, if neither player ever takes another step then i'd also still rather have the D then the F

its a ballsy trade and im not normally a ballsy guy, but on this one i think the conservative move is to make the trade for the defender rather than hope you can build a 3 line dynamo

Reinhart is older and defensemen take longer to develop. He's closer to being the player we think he will be than Hanifin. Not to mention there is a very clear and obvious path to breaking out for Reinhart next season.

 

[OkimLom]

my issue is entirely that people are sold that Reinhart is going to evolve into this next tier player and sold that Hanafin won't

there's a deal that seems like its on the table that returns a high ceiling defender, a huge haul that comes at a huge price

I believe that you win in the NHL by having 2 top C (Jack and ROR) and 4 D of at least #3 caliber, yes I trade Sam, yes it will keep me up at night, and even if it fails I'll make the same trade tomorrow, if both players hit their ceiling i'd rather have the D then the F, if neither player ever takes another step then i'd also still rather have the D then the F

its a ballsy trade and im not normally a ballsy guy, but on this one i think the conservative move is to make the trade for the defender rather than hope you can build a 3 line dynamo

If you can fix the D without trading Reinhart, would you still trade Reinhart for Hanifin?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

If you can fix the D without trading Reinhart, would you still trade Reinhart for Hanifin?

No. The hypothesis here is that we have tried and failed. If someone is silly enough to give us a good young top 4 for Kane + secondary piece, I snap their arm off but Im not that optimistic this happens based on the trades in in the nhl in last few years.

 

[dasaybz]

my issue is entirely that people are sold that Reinhart is going to evolve into this next tier player and sold that Hanafin won't

there's a deal that seems like its on the table that returns a high ceiling defender, a huge haul that comes at a huge price

I believe that you win in the NHL by having 2 top C (Jack and ROR) and 4 D of at least #3 caliber, yes I trade Sam, yes it will keep me up at night, and even if it fails I'll make the same trade tomorrow, if both players hit their ceiling i'd rather have the D then the F, if neither player ever takes another step then i'd also still rather have the D then the F

its a ballsy trade and im not normally a ballsy guy, but on this one i think the conservative move is to make the trade for the defender rather than hope you can build a 3 line dynamo

Why? I don't understand.

I seriously want nothing to do with a Reinhart trade, even if it means getting Hanifan. Why in the world are we going to trade a guy that hasn't even played his natural position yet? We need defensive help next year, that's for sure, but what about the next year, and the year after that, and the year after that? I want to see Sam and Jack connected at the hip for the next 12-15 years. The thought of seeing Sam's name on a Hurricanes scoresheet for the next decade makes me nauseous.

 

[Aladyyn]

No. The hypothesis here is that we have tried and failed. If someone is silly enough to give us a good young top 4 for Kane + secondary piece, I snap their arm off but Im not that optimistic this happens based on the trades in in the nhl in last few years.

Have we though?

Trading a player like Reinhart is the last resort, something you consider when everything else has failed. When you rush it, you end up with Hall-for-Larsson. Careless asset management.

 

[Jame]

my issue is entirely that people are sold that Reinhart is going to evolve into this next tier player and sold that Hanafin won't

I think this is a mischaracterization of what the position is (at least the one I hold, and believe others do to)

It's not that Reinhart is certain to evolve further, it's that he has set a very high floor.
And It's not that Hanifin WON'T evolve, it's that he has played a lesser role, and the history of defensemen under similar conditions (looks great sheltered early) is much more fickle with regards to what that means further up the lineup. he plays a position that doesn't usually give developmental clarity at this stage.

I'm sold on two things

1. Reinhart has already set a floor. He's done it playing on a top 6 line/#1 PP... and done it out of position. Historically, you can have confidence in a forward who sets that type of floor at that age/stage. And Yes, I believe there is a ceiling that is very reachable, but the floor is already a very good young NHL top 6 forward.

2. Hanifin has already set a floor. He's done it playing protected, bottom pairing, low leverage minutes. Historically, floors set under those conditions by very young defensemen... are fickle.