Which of these 5 deserves HHOF Induction

[VanIslander]

If you had to backtrack 7 posts to figure out for sure who all these 'he' references were, you aren't alone.

Nor if you then think he ain't "Him".

 

[carjackmalone]

The NHL Blacklisted Martin for self preservationist reasons the NHL appointed doctors misdiagnosed Martin’s injury and he crippled himself playing in Los Angeles

He sued the NHL and won Nuff Said

 

[Golden_Jet]

None of them

 

[MarotteMarauder]

While I agree Martin was probably better than some of the LW’s in the Hall who played when he did, The Sabres weren’t a bad team during his time there. They went to one final, and were a consistent top 4 or 5 team during that era.

Sabres weren't bad but they weren't the Canadiens, Flyers or Isles by a long shot.

 

[Jets4Life]

Markus Naslund
Charlie Simmer
Tim Kerr
Rick Martin
Dave Taylor

Naslund. Kerr was borderline, and would have made it to the HHOF, if it were not for injuries.

Take out Dick Duff from the HHOF, while we are at it.

 

[VanIslander]

Naslund. Kerr was borderline, and would have made it to the HHOF, if it were not for injuries.

The Hall of Cloulda, Woulda, Shoulda.

The fact is there are several more historic worthy uninducted players.

Queue the next 'Most Deserving Of Being HHOFers' thread.

(Psst: it won't feature those 5.)

 

[VanIslander]

I actually do NOT think these 5 worthy of induction, but they should define the outside margin: Tkachuk, Joseph, Marleau, Novy, Richter.

 

[Crosby2010]

Wow! Thanks for the deep dive. Five points against Finland sorta skews those stats.

I really think that Ramsay belongs in over either any of the French Connection wings. And I don't believe Ramsay belongs at all.

Yeah, and no one is pushing for Ramsay's induction either. But yeah, a guy with a very good voting history of the Selke trophy who still managed some 60-70 point seasons is very valuable. And I agree he at least had some more staying power than Martin.

For my money, while the others mentioned were fine players, I select Rick Martin on my team ahead of any of the others. He was a better player than all of them, stuck on bad teams with injuries to boot.

Put any of those players on Martin's Sabre teams and no one would be remembering them at this point.

The Sabres were good the entire time Martin played on them though. There wasn't a big window for the Sabres to win Cups in that era. You had the Broad Street Bullies winning back to back just as the Sabres were hitting their stride, and even then they still took the Flyers to 6 games. And then the Habs dynasty followed immediately by the Islanders dynasty. The Sabres gave the Isles a scare in 1980, but that was it. To be fair the Sabres most often lost to the Cup winner or Cup finalist.

Last I checked, the HHOF doesn't have minimum games played requirement.

Regardless, saying he shouldn't get in because he "doesn't have enough games played" is downright ridiculous. FWIW he has 27 less than Bure, 33 less than Foppa.

I think it comes down to longevity. For example, if John Leclair played longer at the level he did, then he's in. But he didn't and his career is bookended on a slow start and a poor finish. Martin getting injured sort of takes the cake for him. He was trending towards a HHOF career I think. With Bure you have a guy who scored 50+ goals 5 times. Martin didn't do this. Nor did he have a memorable playoff run. And he was not the goal scorer of Bure.

Martin - 2, 3, 6, 7, 10
Bure - 1, 1, 1, 3, 5

He's got some hardware. That is in a class above Martin. And two guys who are best known for their goal scoring and not much else you easily give the edge to Bure here. So even in the limited time each of them played, Bure clearly beats him here. And even then it took Bure several years before they put him in. Take what you want from that, but he wasn't a lock cinch at retirement either. So I don't foresee Martin getting in down the road. The funny thing is, two guys on this list, Martin and Taylor, both played on famous lines with nicknames. And yet the centre on each line is the only one in the HHOF.

 

[carjackmalone]

Tim Kerr’s best seasons pretty much line up with Michel Goulet’s.

 

[buffalowing88]

Yeah, and no one is pushing for Ramsay's induction either. But yeah, a guy with a very good voting history of the Selke trophy who still managed some 60-70 point seasons is very valuable. And I agree he at least had some more staying power than Martin.



The Sabres were good the entire time Martin played on them though. There wasn't a big window for the Sabres to win Cups in that era. You had the Broad Street Bullies winning back to back just as the Sabres were hitting their stride, and even then they still took the Flyers to 6 games. And then the Habs dynasty followed immediately by the Islanders dynasty. The Sabres gave the Isles a scare in 1980, but that was it. To be fair the Sabres most often lost to the Cup winner or Cup finalist.



I think it comes down to longevity. For example, if John Leclair played longer at the level he did, then he's in. But he didn't and his career is bookended on a slow start and a poor finish. Martin getting injured sort of takes the cake for him. He was trending towards a HHOF career I think. With Bure you have a guy who scored 50+ goals 5 times. Martin didn't do this. Nor did he have a memorable playoff run. And he was not the goal scorer of Bure.

Martin - 2, 3, 6, 7, 10
Bure - 1, 1, 1, 3, 5

He's got some hardware. That is in a class above Martin. And two guys who are best known for their goal scoring and not much else you easily give the edge to Bure here. So even in the limited time each of them played, Bure clearly beats him here. And even then it took Bure several years before they put him in. Take what you want from that, but he wasn't a lock cinch at retirement either. So I don't foresee Martin getting in down the road. The funny thing is, two guys on this list, Martin and Taylor, both played on famous lines with nicknames. And yet the centre on each line is the only one in the HHOF.

Love hearing a nod for that 79-80 Sabres team. It may have been the best squad Buffalo ever had to that point. Three solid lines of guys who could all score and, for the most part, play defense. An incredible goalie tandem, and Bowman as coach.

 

[VanIslander]

Love hearing a nod for that 79-80 Sabres team. It may have been the best squad Buffalo ever had to that point. Three solid lines of guys who could all score and, for the most part, play defense. An incredible goalie tandem, and Bowman as coach.

Bowman's worst NHL stint was in Buffalo.

The Sabres went down 3 games to 0 in the playoffs (against the dynasty Isles) and rallied for 7 goals to stave off elimination in Game 4. Rick Martin had zero points, Perreault a hat trick.

It was my 11th birthday i remember (i wore a Battlestar Galactica tee, had the house key around my neck, and a bottle of Coke in my hand - and a photo to prove it) but it was in 1980 so i had to wait until 11:35ish to watch the sports news on BCTV to find out what happened, then await the next day's newspaper, delivered in the afternoon, to get the details.

Only Perreault was a superstar on that team we thought then; he's the only one who has deserved induction since.

 

[The Panther]

Only Perreault was a superstar on that team we thought then; he's the only one who has deserved induction since.

Well, half the roster of the late-80s / early-90s team that won nothing has made it in now, so...

 

[VanIslander]

Well, half the roster of the late-80s / early-90s team that won nothing has made it in now, so...

Wa? Wa? Only Hawerchuk, Andreychuk & for a bit LaFontainte came from then.

3 doesn't make half a roster.

Buffalo has only had 9 HHOFers ever, from Perreault in the 1970s (Duff, Horton, Gillies before him are defined by their play elsewhere) to Hasek (when only gimpy Lappy was there) in the mid- late 90s.

Detroit, a decade later, meets your description.

 

[VanIslander]

Which of these 5 deserve to be breakfast food:
Soup, rice, popcorn, cake, asparagus?

 

[DitchMarner]

Tim Kerr’s best seasons pretty much line up with Michel Goulet’s.

Maybe in terms of goals.

Goulet was top ten in points four times; Kerr was only a top ten scorer once.

Goulet had four seasons of 100 or more points (peaking at 122); Kerr had none.

 

[carjackmalone]

Yes goals especially of the power play variety

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Some of my favourite players, but none of them should be in the HoF.
But if Glenn Anderson is in...

 

[Crosby2010]

How about a rarely mentioned Hall of Very Good guy - Bobby Smith. He wins over all of them, and if he is included on this list I think he is at the top. But still not a HHOFer. But he was a very instrumental player on his teams and they normally had long playoff runs. 4 times in the Cup final, won once. Was a big part of all of them.

 

[The Panther]

Wa? Wa? Only Hawerchuk, Andreychuk & for a bit LaFontainte came from then.

3 doesn't make half a roster.

I was being silly, of course, but in addition to Hawerchuk, Andreychuk, and Lafontaine, there is also Tom Barrasso, Phil Housley, Pierre Turgeon, Dominik Hašek, and I guarantee Alex Mogilny will be in one or two years from now. Hell, even Clark Gillies (for only 80-odd games, but he's a weak HOF-er even as an NY Islander) and Grant Fuhr, if you want to stretch it.

 

[The Panther]

Some of my favourite players, but none of them should be in the HoF.
But if Glenn Anderson is in...

Anderson is one of the great "borderline" guys for me. If my own standards were in place, he and about 50% of the other Hall of Famers would be out. However, given the historical precedent, I can see a good argument for him over guys like Martin, Kerr, etc.

Well, for one thing, Anderson had multiple 100-point seasons (he was the 2nd Oiler to ever have one), which, as noted above, guys like Kerr and also Martin never had.

But Anderson's main calling card for the Hall is the playoffs. Everybody saw him make big plays and win games against the Flames and in the Cup Finals, especially in 1987 and (post-Gretzky) in 1990. (He also did rather well for Toronto in the mini-1993 run.) That does count for something.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Dave Taylor

 

[The Panther]

Dave Taylor

Once again, I want to ask this question (in all seriousness): Why Taylor over, say, Naslund?

-- Naslund's peak seasons drawf Taylor's
-- Naslund was voted best player in the NHL by his peers (Taylor probably never top 10)
-- Naslund was captain and best player on a very good team for at least a few (handful of) years. Taylor never was.

So... why?

 

[carjackmalone]

Naslund had 3 straight post season 1st team all star selections

In a 30 team NHL that’s an accomplishment

 

[Finster8]

Martin scored 44 goals on a team that had 16 wins, and broke the rookie scoring record. His career was cut short by a gimp knee and ruined his chance to to be considered in the HHOF. He had 52, 52, 49, 45, 44 and 37 in a shortened career as did many others. To compare 20 yr careers to 9 is crazy. How many guys are in the HHOF with 8 yr careers? Ken Dryden had 6 Cups in 8 yrs and pursued other accomplishments he wanted if he’s not HHOF nobody should be after 8 yrs. Calder, Conn Smythe and 5 Vezinas. The math is 7 prestigious trophies in 8 years INCREDIBLE

 

[MXD]

The NHL Blacklisted Martin for self preservationist reasons the NHL appointed doctors misdiagnosed Martin’s injury and he crippled himself playing in Los Angeles

He sued the NHL and won Nuff Said

That's kinda like saying the MLB blacklisted Curt Flood for the BHOF.