Which front office changes do you want to see ?

[Monk]

I have wanted to clean house for two years.

I have also worked in a toxic work environment.

The people who have created a toxic environment for young kids in Columbus are not being punished. That blows my mind. That says ownership values a leadership team that has made it past the first round of the playoffs once in their very long tenure more than our recent draft choices. There will be repercussions.

When I worked in a toxic work environment it took me a long time to realize the couple of asshats who treated underlings like crap werent the only problems. Plenty of enabling by other people allowed the behavior that should have been completely unacceptable. Once I realized that, I was gone even though it was a big company where I might have eventually done very well.

To the players this was less than 3 months. Unless you have some knowledge the rest of us don't, you're just BSing here (and all over every other thread). Wouldn't surprise me at all if the exact opposite of what you're saying is in fact true, w/r/t the impact on the team this season and beyond.

There are ways to punish employees that aren't transparent. Pretty standard practice to not share disciplinary action with the recipient's colleagues. The FO is obviously in the hot seat, and there's a damn good chance they're gone at the end of the year.

Give it a rest for a while, your continuing to beat this dead horse that we all want to move on from is getting old. We get it. It sucked - but to our knowledge, it's over.

 

[NotWendell]

There have been so many bad decisions in the last two years that I don't even care if they managed to meet the goals and expectations set for this season. They simply don't deserve to get another opportunity imo. My list of bad moves by Jarmo after the Jones trade would at least include:

Bean trade
Hiring Larsen and not even interviewing Shaw
Domi trade
Bjorkstrand trade
Rushing Sillinger
Erik "#1 FA target" Gudbranson
1-2 years too many on Laine's extension
8 years for Severson
Not trading Korpisalo earlier
Not listening to offers regarding Jenner
Unwilling to send young and unproven players to Cleveland to develop
Not hiring enough experienced developmental coaches for Cleveland
Not tanking hard enough at the end of last season
Thinking Smith > Carlsson pre-draft (unconfirmed if true)
A bit odd draft choices this year past 1st round
Inability to give impression that they have a clear and smart vision on roster construction
Babcock blunder

Ideal time to fire them is likely next spring. I wouldn't do it now because I'm afraid it could damage the integrity of the team even more as they're trying to prepare for new season.

The Elvis contract. (Disagree on Jenner)

 

[Crede777]

No changes right now unless the season is another dumpster fire.

Eventually JD will retire, Jarmo will be promoted to President, and then someone (probably Flynn or Nash) will become the GM.

 

[Jumptheshark]

As an outsider... the Babs thing looks like a JD thing he forced on the GM

 

[DarkandStormy]

Is this the first FO group to hire *two* coaches who never made it to a game? Remember Lefebvre? Embarrassing.

Ownership is too cheap to pay them to go away for two years. If this team doesn't clear 80 points I'd expect changes to be made in April. What that looks like is harder to guess. It probably depends on how well they sell themselves to Priest/McConnell.

I'd imagine Jarmo at the very least. JD is harder to say. But they can bring in a new GM for Vincent's final year and allow that GM to evaluate Vincent to see if he's worth extending beyond 2025.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

As an outsider... the Babs thing looks like a JD thing he forced on the GM

I would like to believe this but we have no evidence of any division (prior to the hire, anyway). We'll most likely never know until somebody comes out with a story many years later...

Re: Jarmo as President, for some reason I just can't see him as a President of anything. Maybe he's not old enough yet. But I think he'll spend the next 5+ years as a GM and try to win that Cup, he's still got drive...

 

[BluejacketNut]

There have been so many bad decisions in the last two years that I don't even care if they managed to meet the goals and expectations set for this season. They simply don't deserve to get another opportunity imo. My list of bad moves by Jarmo after the Jones trade would at least include:

Bean trade
Hiring Larsen and not even interviewing Shaw
Domi trade
Bjorkstrand trade
Rushing Sillinger
Erik "#1 FA target" Gudbranson
1-2 years too many on Laine's extension
8 years for Severson
Not trading Korpisalo earlier
Not listening to offers regarding Jenner
Unwilling to send young and unproven players to Cleveland to develop
Not hiring enough experienced developmental coaches for Cleveland
Not tanking hard enough at the end of last season
Thinking Smith > Carlsson pre-draft (unconfirmed if true)
A bit odd draft choices this year past 1st round
Inability to give impression that they have a clear and smart vision on roster construction
Babcock blunder

Ideal time to fire them is likely next spring. I wouldn't do it now because I'm afraid it could damage the integrity of the team even more as they're trying to prepare for new season.

Maybe not in the 2 year window, but choosing Elvis over Korpi

 

[BluejacketNut]

I have wanted to clean house for two years.

I have also worked in a toxic work environment.

The people who have created a toxic environment for young kids in Columbus are not being punished. That blows my mind. That says ownership values a leadership team that has made it past the first round of the playoffs once in their very long tenure more than our recent draft choices. There will be repercussions.

When I worked in a toxic work environment it took me a long time to realize the couple of asshats who treated underlings like crap werent the only problems. Plenty of enabling by other people allowed the behavior that should have been completely unacceptable. Once I realized that, I was gone even though it was a big company where I might have eventually done very well.

And make no mistake, they would not have made any changes if it wasn’t for the PA. This is more in the “we’re sorry we got caught” type category

 

[squashmaple]

Holding choosing Elvis over Korpi over Jarmo's head is pure hindsight. At the time, Korpi had never been a starter, was rarely healthy, and had abysmal numbers. Elvis was the reasonable choice between the two at the time the contract was signed. And I say this as a person with Korpi as my avatar.

 

[Finner]

Clean the house.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Holding choosing Elvis over Korpi over Jarmo's head is pure hindsight. At the time, Korpi had never been a starter, was rarely healthy, and had abysmal numbers. Elvis was the reasonable choice between the two at the time the contract was signed. And I say this as a person with Korpi as my avatar.

But just because he was the better choice (at the time) doesn't mean it was the right choice.
No one held a gun to Jarmo's head and said you have to sign one or the other to 5/$27M. That was his poor decision.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

There have been so many bad decisions in the last two years that I don't even care if they managed to meet the goals and expectations set for this season. They simply don't deserve to get another opportunity imo. My list of bad moves by Jarmo after the Jones trade would at least include:

i have some thoughts on a few of these

Bean trade

jordan greenway and mikael grandlund both fetched second rounders at the deadline this year, and they both stink. the jackets gave one up for bean, while having a clear need at LHD, and got a guy who (at the time) was 22, coming off of an elite AHL season (48p in 58gp) and was a few years removed from being a top-15 pick.

he struggled in 21-22 (may have been a byproduct of larsen tbf) and spent pretty much all of last year injured. you can lament a move where the guy your team got ended up getting injured, but you can't evaluate the move based on that since it's an unpredictable outcome.

in hindsight, it would've been great if they could've kept the pick and taken stankoven, but that's unfortunately not how this stuff works.

Hiring Larsen and not even interviewing Shaw

not worth harping on imo seeing as shaw isn't a head coach somewhere else.

1-2 years too many on Laine's extension

a 2-year deal would have walked laine right to UFA. i think there's a more valid argument would be that it was too short (although 4 years was good for both parties)

8 years for Severson

been discussed ad nauseam here, but: severson is a massive improvement at RHD and 8 years is fine given the contract structure. imo one of the best moves of the offseason for any team.

Not listening to offers regarding Jenner

given how much smoke there was around teams being 'interested' in jenner, i'm sure they had plenty of discussions and just didn't want the public blowback.

Not tanking hard enough at the end of last season

that penguins game that they won (which pissed everyone off) had a lineup that featured 13 AHL guys lol (angle, bayreuther, bemstrom, berni, foudy, knazko, luoto, mckown, pyyhtia, svozil, sweezey, hutchinson, gillies) out of the 20 guys they dressed.

the front office did pretty much everything they could to ensure that the team would be dogshit down the stretch. they can't make the coaches healthy scratch gaudreau or something like that – the league would probably step in.

Thinking Smith > Carlsson pre-draft (unconfirmed if true)

1. speculated but not confirmed, so it can't be applied as a criticism
2. carlsson > smith isn't a sure thing – neither have played a game yet. smith could very well end up being the better player, it's way too early to say.

A bit odd draft choices this year past 1st round

if we're getting into "well, i personally would have picked someone else in the fifth round than they did" territory we're stretching a bit, don't you think?

besides, draft experts universally praised cbj's draft, even after the fantilli pick. public sphere guys love pinelli and whitelaw, and there are some who really like strathmann and peddle as well.

Inability to give impression that they have a clear and smart vision on roster construction

how many teams – especially rebuilding teams – publicly articulate their roster vision and follow through on it?

they've been rebuilding – you don't come up with the team you want to be in abstract terms on paper, you gather assets and identify building blocks, then move the other pieces to support those guys. that leads to awkward fits in the short/medium term, but a better team in the long run.

Babcock blunder

Ideal time to fire them is likely next spring. I wouldn't do it now because I'm afraid it could damage the integrity of the team even more as they're trying to prepare for new season.

babcock blunder is the biggest thing here by far and imo is fireable in and of itself. should've just let both guys go, elevated flynn/nash on an interim basis and start the search for a permanent GM.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

But just because he was the better choice (at the time) doesn't mean it was the right choice.

but decisions are made at the time with information available at the time.

that's like saying that buying a house right before the market crashes was the "wrong choice" – the choice wasn't wrong based on information at the time, but it was impacted by an unforeseeable externality. easy to lament the choice in hindsight, but impossible to logically defend the alternative based on available info when the choice was made.

to wit: elvis signed the contract and then his best friend died in front of him a couple months later. korpisalo was so bad two years ago that he took a 50% paycut, then came back and played his best hockey.

if you're mad at the blue jackets for not predicting those two things, i don't know what to tell you. if you gave jarmo a time machine, he'd probably be more focused on stopping manny legace from throwing that party than he would on negotiating a different contract for elvis.

 

[LJ7]

babcock blunder is the biggest thing here by far and imo is fireable in and of itself. should've just let both guys go, elevated flynn/nash on an interim basis and start the search for a permanent GM.

I'm nitpicking but to me promoting Nash while firing 2 guys for hiring Babcock would be really strange

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I'm nitpicking but to me promoting Nash while firing 2 guys for hiring Babcock would be really strange

maybe i'm nitpicking my defense here too but:

nash was a source of information in their decision to hire babs, but he wasn't the actual decision-maker. they cited nash's personal experience playing for babcock, which was likely accurate and valid, just in a different context (national team).

i'm sure plenty of folks would say what you're saying, but it would be an easy PR win for a fan base that 1) is growing weary of jarmo and 2) loves rick nash to death.

 

[JacketsDavid]

but decisions are made at the time with information available at the time.

that's like saying that buying a house right before the market crashes was the "wrong choice" – the choice wasn't wrong based on information at the time, but it was impacted by an unforeseeable externality. easy to lament the choice in hindsight, but impossible to logically defend the alternative based on available info when the choice was made.

to wit: elvis signed the contract and then his best friend died in front of him a couple months later. korpisalo was so bad two years ago that he took a 50% paycut, then came back and played his best hockey.

if you're mad at the blue jackets for not predicting those two things, i don't know what to tell you. if you gave jarmo a time machine, he'd probably be more focused on stopping manny legace from throwing that party than he would on negotiating a different contract for elvis.

Simply saying you didn't have to give that contract to Elvis.
Regardless of what caused his regression he hasn't played well. Jarmo gambled on overpaying Elvis for a relatively long period of time and o this point it's been a horrible contract.
As you noted he got outplayed by a guy who took a 50% salary cut to come back.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Simply saying you didn't have to give that contract to Elvis.
Regardless of what caused his regression he hasn't played well. Jarmo gambled on overpaying Elvis for a relatively long period of time and o this point it's been a horrible contract.

generally speaking, signing a player to a contract is a 'gamble' if you are paying them to reach a level they have not yet reached i.e. jack hughes, which wasn't the case with elvis. the elvis contract would have been a bargain had he maintained that level.

here are five goalies. they all signed similar contracts in 2021.

Two-year samples	Goalie A	Goalie B	Goalie C	Goalie D	Goalie E
SV%	.911	.916	.920	.919	.913
GP	92	54	51	76	43
GSAA	5.8	11.1	19.0	20.8	6.3
GSAA/GP	0.06	0.21	0.37	0.27	0.14

looking at that dataset, you'd probably say goalie E was the biggest risk (mediocre stats + small sample), the surest bet was either goalie C or D (C was the most effective, but D had a bigger sample) and that A and B were somewhere in the middle.

A: Jordan Binnington ($6m x 6 years)
B: Linus Ullmark ($5m x 4 years)
C: Elvis Merzlikins ($5.4m x 5 years)
D: Philipp Grubauer ($5.9m x 6 years)
E: Cal Peterson ($5m x 3 years)

it's easy to look at it now and say that jarmo caved or whatever, but elvis's contract was dead-on consistent with the goalie market, or perhaps even a relative bargain at the time given that he had the third biggest contract of that dataset with the best production. he also had the threat of accepting his QO and hitting UFA the next year.

As you noted he got outplayed by a guy who took a 50% salary cut to come back.

the lesson here is that goaltending is, by nature, unpredictable.

elvis's regression since 21-22 was just as unpredictable as korpisalo's breakout in 22-23. grubauer's stat sample looked better than ullmark's before they signed their UFA deals, but then ullmark turned into a vezina guy and grubauer turned into a pumpkin.

the blue jackets misstep – if you're set on finding one in all of this – isn't that they gave a big contract to the wrong goalie, it's that they gave a big contract to any goalie. and, to be fair to the blue jackets, a lot of the evidence we have now to support that is guys who signed contracts at the same time as elvis.

 

[Monk]

if you're mad at the blue jackets for not predicting the future, i don't know what to tell you. if you gave jarmo a time machine...

I bastardized your original sentence, but this summarizes most of the complaints on here imo

 

[Forepar]

He’s the one constant in this franchise’s mediocre existence……Priest

Let’s just go all in……

Name Rimer GM & Jody skills coa

maybe i'm nitpicking my defense here too but:

nash was a source of information in their decision to hire babs, but he wasn't the actual decision-maker. they cited nash's personal experience playing for babcock, which was likely accurate and valid, just in a different context (national team).

i'm sure plenty of folks would say what you're saying, but it would be an easy PR win for a fan base that 1) is growing weary of jarmo and 2) loves rick nash to death.

My reluctance on Nash has only a little to do with the Babcock fiasco. My concern is that Nash is very inexperienced in FO setting. He’s had what, 2-3 years under JK. Many want JK fired - why does replacing him with Nash, whose ONLY non-player experience is under JK, make any sense. I know, Nasher is a legend as a CBJ player - but that does not make him a good GM candidate. And I have a Nasher signed game jersey in my very small collection! we don’t have to send NASHER packing, but he, imo, is not THE guy (or gal). If we are starting fresh, then start fresh. New outside blood in all of Priest’s, JD’s and JK’s spots. Let the new replacements evaluate Nash ( and HC) independently. Don’t care if that’s now, January or April, Bu needs done before next off-season.

 

[majormajor]

i have some thoughts on a few of these

jordan greenway and mikael grandlund both fetched second rounders at the deadline this year, and they both stink. the jackets gave one up for bean, while having a clear need at LHD, and got a guy who (at the time) was 22, coming off of an elite AHL season (48p in 58gp) and was a few years removed from being a top-15 pick.

he struggled in 21-22 (may have been a byproduct of larsen tbf) and spent pretty much all of last year injured. you can lament a move where the guy your team got ended up getting injured, but you can't evaluate the move based on that since it's an unpredictable outcome.

in hindsight, it would've been great if they could've kept the pick and taken stankoven, but that's unfortunately not how this stuff works.

Not a huge blunder but the thing I wonder about with Bean is why they gave him that big multi year deal with a big raise before he had ever played for the club. He didn't crack the Hurricanes lineup. I think trading a 2nd rounder for a second chance guy like Bean made some sense but they did that and then seemingly congratulated themselves with the contract, which the player has greatly underperformed on. $1m x 1 would have made more sense.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Not a huge blunder but the thing I wonder about with Bean is why they gave him that big multi year deal with a big raise before he had ever played for the club. He didn't crack the Hurricanes lineup. I think trading a 2nd rounder for a second chance guy like Bean made some sense but they did that and then seemingly congratulated themselves with the contract, which the player has greatly underperformed on. $1m x 1 would have made more sense.

if what he did in the AHL would have translated to the NHL (and, given his age/draft pedigree, it seems like they thought it would), $2.2m x 3 would have been a huge bargain.

Nasher is a legend as a CBJ player - but that does not make him a good GM candidate.

fwiw i'm saying they should elevate flynn to GM and nash to assistant, not make nash the top guy.

 

[tunnelvision]

i have some thoughts on a few of these

For clarification: From my perspective there are roughly 5 types of moves/decisions a GM can make.

Moves I liked or was okay with then and like them now: drafting Jiricek, signing JG...
Moves I liked or was okay with then but don't like them now: Elvis contract...
Moves I felt more or less neutral about then and still do: Provorov trade...
Moves I didn't like then but I'm okay with or like them now: Olivier trade, signing Kuraly...
Moves I didn't like then and don't like now: see my previous post

In other words I only listed moves I've consistently disliked. It's irrelevant for me if the outcome of Jarmo's decision is undetermined (some draft choices, Laine's contract), if I initially thought it was a bad bet and still haven't changed my mind about it, it does count as a bad move. That is also why decisions that were justified when they happened but don't look good anymore (Elvis) do not count. I guess Babcock is a little exception in this because I was skeptical but didn't exactly hate it when the news broke out in June.

how many teams – especially rebuilding teams – publicly articulate their roster vision and follow through on it?

I'm not asking them to articulate it, but I think we would get a clearer picture of what kind of team and identity they're trying to build if there had been more moves most of us thought addressed their biggest needs while showing great patience and consistency with other roster and coaching changes.

I'm not an Yzerman fanboy/girl like some posters on this board, but I have to admit it's easier to see or guess what he's attempting to build in Detroit. In their system I see a lot of rangy defensemen with promising defensive tools and a center group that has speed and good two-way game ability. I think their #1 priority is to build a strong defensive team, it will be an essential part of their identity going forward. I don't know how their plan is going to work out, but as a fan I'd love to know what Jarmo's priorities are in our rebuild. Some say our goal is to be a quick puck moving team blah blah but it's not always that obvious to me.

fwiw i'm saying they should elevate flynn to GM and nash to assistant, not make nash the top guy.

What makes you think Flynn could be a legitimate candidate for the job? Does he have a good knowledge of the game itself? Have you ever heard him share his opinions or evaluations on players?

 

[Byrral]

fwiw i'm saying they should elevate flynn to GM and nash to assistant, not make nash the top guy.

No to both. I can see keeping Nash around but he isn't ready to be an AGM yet and this drama probably slapped him in the face in little if he indeed gave Babcock high reviews. And all I can picture in my head with Flynn is him on the phone in one of the Behind the Battles saying something like "OK let's get this done. Gudbranson 4x4." Ugh.

 

[tunnelvision]

delete

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Just throw the money bag at Eric Tulsky and name him President/GM like Dubas. Timing doesnt matter to me if you get him. He'll then decide what to do with coaching