Which Forward Had The Best Season in 1988-89?

[Dingo]

Please list your top 3

1. Mario
2. Yzerman
3. Wayne

those are mine.

*Yes, this OP has been edited enormously.

Click to read more...

 

[Albatros]

Regarding "full" Russian representation, that was really just Sergei Pryakhin for the two last games of the season.

 

[Staniowski]

Lemieux #1, followed by Gretzky and either Messier or Makarov.

I know Yzerman has those big numbers, but I'd still put him behind those guys.

Besides Yzerman, other really good players are Krutov and Khomutov in Europe, and Gilmour, Tikkanen, LaFontaine, and maybe Hawerchuk. Some of these guys were better at the time than their numbers look.
-------------------
Bure would've been unanimous #1 overall in the draft, if available to play in the NHL.
--------------------
Must mention that year's WJC (in Alaska), one of the most memorable ever. The Soviet's line of Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny was the talk of the town, maybe the most talented the tournament had ever seen.

Plus, the USA had two 18-year-olds, Modano and Roenick, who were the most talented forward duo of the same age the country had ever produced in over 100 years of American hockey. So, exciting times for them.

Finland had 18-year-old Selanne, perhaps the best Finnish prospect ever.

17-year-old Sundin and 16-year-old Jagr weren't there, but were probably good enough to be there.

17-year-olds Reichel and Holik were big prospects and were playing.

 

[Dingo]

Regarding "full" Russian representation, that was really just Sergei Pryakhin for the two last games of the season.

ok, i was off by a year. haha, good call.

 

[Dingo]

Lemieux #1, followed by Gretzky and either Messier or Makarov.

I know Yzerman has those big numbers, but I'd still put him behind those guys.

Besides Yzerman, other really good players are Krutov and Khomutov in Europe, and Gilmour, Tikkanen, LaFontaine, and maybe Hawerchuk. Some of these guys were better at the time than their numbers look.
-------------------
Bure would've been unanimous #1 overall in the draft, if available to play in the NHL.
--------------------
Must mention that year's WJC (in Alaska), one of the most memorable ever. The Soviet's line of Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny was the talk of the town, maybe the most talented the tournament had ever seen.

Plus, the USA had two 18-year-olds, Modano and Roenick, who were the most talented forward duo of the same age the country had ever produced in over 100 years of American hockey. So, exciting times for them.

Finland had 18-year-old Selanne, perhaps the best Finnish prospect ever.

17-year-old Sundin and 16-year-old Jagr weren't there, but were probably good enough to be there.

17-year-olds Reichel and Holik were big prospects and were playing.

So, Lemieux, Gretzky, Messier for the top the forwards in the NHL, then. Good, this is what I want. I think we can properly rate players, from our own memories on this board, from roughly this time on.

Unlike D and goalie, we have to get into arguments about Hart narratives, Selke votes and such regarding forwards. Withthe other two positions its easy to look at Norris, Vezina or Allstar votes.

Whether its Messier or Yzerman, its a lot better than Gallant, Mullen, Robitaille or the convoluted, inconsistent and narrative-based Hart records.

 

[MadLuke]

Depends if we are talking forward that had the best season in 88-89 or the 3 best forward at that time, Messier won the cup the year just before and will just after, will win the Hart as well.

 

[Dingo]

i don't know how to word it differently. Maybe axe this thread.

 

[Crosby2010]

This is not a hard question to ask and it really comes down to three players.

But these are mine:
Lemieux
Gretzky
Yzerman

And I put Stevie Y awfully close to Gretzky that year just because of his numbers and his dazzling performances on the ice. It is easy to forget just how much of a magician he was with the puck in those days and dare I say electric he was. But you still have to give Gretzky the edge over him this year, he is on a new team that was bad without him, he outpoints Yzerman and he wins the Hart. Mario was the best player this season though, hands down.

 

[carjackmalone]

Mario
Gretzky
Nichols
Yzerman

 

[JackSlater]

There's no need to overthink it. It is:

Lemieux
Gretzky
Yzerman

Best season, best forward, whichever it's the same three in the same order.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Seriousley? Probably the guy with 199 points
Lemieux

Gretzky
Yzerman

 

[MadLuke]

There's no need to overthink it. It is:

Could be a good candidate for the easiest season ever.

 

[TheStatican]

Mario
Gretzky
Nichols
Yzerman

Disagree with placing Nichols ahead of Yzerman. Look at who Yzerman played with, then look at who Nichols played with. Robitaille & Taylor at ES while getting the benefit of weaker matchups and then together with Gretzky on special teams.

Nichols was never anything more than a 100 point player at best without Gretzky, which is quite good to be sure, but not enough to be considered amongst the top echelon of players. Again, yes I know Wayne wasn't Nichols primary linemate, though they did play at least some time together at ES since they were on the ice for at least 23 goals together. But a massive chunk of his minutes that season came on special teams where he and Gretzky almost always played together and it showed on the stats sheet as he went from 37 points to 63.

Yzerman meanwhile put up better totals and nearly as many goals while playing with clearly inferior teammates. He also got some Hart votes for the 3rd straight season, something Nichols never received.

 

[MadLuke]

Nichols was +30, Robitaille +5, were they a solid line or it was more a dance of wingers on that top 6 ?

One thing a bit odds about Yzerman superbe season.

When he scored 100 points the year before (playing only 64 games) the Wings went 41-28-11, he goes to 155 playing all of them and they go 34-34-11.

Aotes/Chiasson played more games, Klima less games, Demers both season, same goaltender...

Bob Probert missed them, better competition, just how it goes they were lucky to give up only 269 goal the year before, new coaching effect got stale ?

 

[TheStatican]

Nichols was +30, Robitaille +5, were they a solid line or it was more a dance of wingers on that top 6 ?

Keep in mind though that around half of his plus that season came from the penalty kill where he had 14 points. Robitaille meanwhile likely wasn't utilized at all there seeing as how he had no shorthanded points, and just 6 in his entire career. Does seem like there was a bit of lineup dancing going too though, hard to say if it was Nicholls jumping up to 1st line with Gretzky or the other way around.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

While not always necessarily representative of the best players, in this case the points ranking gives a bang-on accurate picture as to the value of the best centers that season:

1. Lemieux
2. Gretzky
3. Yzerman
4. Nicholls

After these 4 the ranking gets murkier, but these guys clearly outperformed everyone else in the regular season.

Messier struggled somewhat with his new leadership role, and didn't hit that next level until the next season. The Jets were dogs and I think this was the year that Hawerchuk's problems with Mike Smith started and he was clearly affected by it, and Thomas Steen was arguably the better center during Hawerchuk's last two seasons. Carson was fortunate to get first line minutes between Kurri and Tikkanen.

Not mentioned above but Smith, Nieuwendyk and Gilmour had strong enough years to make the top 10, particularly if you consider the playoffs. Lafontaine, Turgeon, Ridley would be swimming around the same pool.

Geez, something like this, maybe:

5. Smith
6. Gilmour
7. Messier
8. Steen
9. Savard
9. Lafontaine
10. Nieuwendyk
11. Ridley
12. Turgeon
13. Olczyk
14. Carbonneau
15. Hawerchuk
16. Otto
17. Carson
18. Oates
etc.

EDIT: Oops, I was only doing centers, not all forwards, in which case the above list would look much different.

EDIT: Oops, I was only doing centers, not all forwards, in which case the above list would look much different.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Made the above post because only centers were being discussed. Kurri and Mullen would obviously move into the number 5-6 spots.

 

[Dingo]

While not always necessarily representative of the best players, in this case the points ranking gives a bang-on accurate picture as to the value of the best centers that season:

1. Lemieux
2. Gretzky
3. Yzerman
4. Nicholls

After these 4 the ranking gets murkier, but these guys clearly outperformed everyone else in the regular season.

Messier struggled somewhat with his new leadership role, and didn't hit that next level until the next season. The Jets were dogs and I think this was the year that Hawerchuk's problems with Mike Smith started and he was clearly affected by it, and Thomas Steen was arguably the better center during Hawerchuk's last two seasons. Carson was fortunate to get first line minutes between Kurri and Tikkanen.

Not mentioned above but Smith, Nieuwendyk and Gilmour had strong enough years to make the top 10, particularly if you consider the playoffs. Lafontaine, Turgeon, Ridley would be swimming around the same pool.

Geez, something like this, maybe:

5. Smith
6. Gilmour
7. Messier
8. Steen
9. Savard
9. Lafontaine
10. Nieuwendyk
11. Ridley
12. Turgeon
13. Olczyk
14. Carbonneau
15. Hawerchuk
16. Otto
17. Carson
18. Oates
etc.

EDIT: Oops, I was only doing centers, not all forwards, in which case the above list would look much different.

EDIT: Oops, I was only doing centers, not all forwards, in which case the above list would look much different.

this is still a great breakdown, except i don't know who Smith is!

 

[Gorskyontario]

Rod Langway thought it was Yzerman.

 

[Dingo]

well, Yzerman DID win the Pearson.
Good interview.

 

[Staniowski]

Rod Langway thought it was Yzerman.

I remember when Roenick was young - prospect, then NHL rookie, there were multiple different pronunciations of his name. Many people weren't quite sure how to say it.

 

[Albatros]

Obviously Rönick [ˈʁøːnɪk].

 

[The Panther]

Month-by-month of Lemieux, Gretzky, Yzerman, Nicholls during 1988-89, ranked by points:

October 1988
38 Lemeux (11GP: 16G + 28A; +14)
25 Nicholls (11GP: 11G + 14A; +5)
24 Gretzky (11GP: 10G + 14A; +7)
17 Yzerman (11GP: 8G + 9A; +3)
November 1988
31 Gretzky (14GP: 10G + 21A; +5)
30 Nicholls (14GP: 17G + 13A; +17)
30 Yzerman(13GP: 17G + 13A; +15)
23 Lemieux (11GP: 8G + 15A; -1)
December 1988
43 Lemeux (14GP: 19G + 24A; +12)
33 Yzerman(14GP: 12G + 21A; 0)
31 Gretzky (13GP: 9G + 22A; +10)
30 Nicholls (14GP: 9G + 21A; +7)
January 1989
33 Lemeux (12GP: 11G + 22A; +6)
26 Nicholls (13GP: 15G + 11A; -5)
26 Yzerman (14GP: 9G + 17A; -1)
26 Gretzky (13GP: 5G + 21A; -8)
February 1989
29 Lemeux (13GP: 11G + 18A; +9)
26 Gretzky (12GP: 12G + 14A; -3)
25 Yzerman (13GP: 13G + 12A; +3)
14 Nicholls (12GP: 5G + 9A; -1)
March 1989
30 Lemeux (13GP: 18G + 12A; -1)
27 Gretzky (14GP: 8G + 19A; +3)
23 Yzerman (14GP: 5G + 18A; -3)
20 Nicholls (14GP: 10G + 10A; +5)

April 1989, of course, is just a blip. Nicholls and Gretzky played just 1 game, but it was significant for Bernie as he scored 3 goals (to reach 70) and 2 assists (to reach 150 points) in his final game. Gretzky had 3 assists in that game. (Gretzky and Nicholls sat out the Kings' final game of the season.) In two April games, Mario had 2 goals and 1 assist. And in one game, Yzerman had 1 goal (to reach 65 goals and 155 points).

NOTES:
-- After Mario's remarkable start in October, the scoring race was his to lose. He had a 13-point lead after one month! However, he "slowed down" (relatively) a lot in November, perhaps giving some chance to the competitors... before December, that is, when Mario put his ultimate stamp on the season and really won the scoring race with 43 points, in what might have been the most dominant single month of his career.

-- Gretzky had 12 points in his first four games with L.A., as the Kings got off to a 4-0 start. Into late February, he had 46 goals in 59 games... but then only 8 goals in his final 19 games, continuing a pattern (started as early as 1985) where his goal scoring would notably decrease late in seasons. Though his season was a little less 'flashy' than the other three in some ways, Wayne might have been the most consistent scorer of these 4 in 1988-89.

-- Nicholls obviously had the best season of his career, finishing with one of the prettiest stat lines in history: 70 goals, 80 assists, 150 points, +30. More remarkably, he was ahead of Gretzky in Kings' overall scoring as late as December 26th, and as late as February 3rd (!) Bernie was only 1 point behind Wayne. Nicholls "slumped" (relatively) badly in February 1989, however, with only 14 points (not even being top-20 in NHL scoring).

-- Yzerman started slowly, with "only" 17 points in October (compared to the other three). But then, he really started ripping it up. From Nov. 1st to Feb. 11th, Yzerman scored 43 goals and 100 points in 46 games, which was only 8 points behind Mario (and 2 goals ahead of him). Oddly, he scored "only" 9 points in his final 8 games. Had he stayed on a heater, he might have had a chance at a 160-point (2.00 PPG) season, something only Wayne and Mario have ever done.

Overall scoring:
199 points (76GP) Lemieux
168 points (78 GP) Gretzky
155 points (80GP) Yzerman
150 points (79 GP) Nicholls

Goals
85 Lemieux (27.2%)
70 Nicholls (18.2%)
65 Yzerman (16.8%)
54 Gretzky (17.8%)

Assists
114 Lemieux
114 Gretzky
90 Yzerman
80 Nicholls

Even-Strength points
102 Lemieux
101 Yzerman
100 Gretzky
87 Nicholls

Even-Strength goals
45 Yzerman
41 Lemieux
41 Nicholls
38 Gretzky

Power-Play points
79 Lemieux
53 Gretzky
49 Nicholls
46 Yzerman

Power-play goals
31 Lemieux
21 Nicholls
17 Yzerman
11 Gretzky

Short-handed points
18 Lemieux
15 Gretzky
14 Nicholls
8 Yzerman

 

[Gorskyontario]

Month-by-month of Lemieux, Gretzky, Yzerman, Nicholls during 1988-89, ranked by points:

October 1988
38 Lemeux (11GP: 16G + 28A; +14)
25 Nicholls (11GP: 11G + 14A; +5)
24 Gretzky (11GP: 10G + 14A; +7)
17 Yzerman (11GP: 8G + 9A; +3)
November 1988
31 Gretzky (14GP: 10G + 21A; +5)
30 Nicholls (14GP: 17G + 13A; +17)
30 Yzerman(13GP: 17G + 13A; +15)
23 Lemieux (11GP: 8G + 15A; -1)
December 1988
43 Lemeux (14GP: 19G + 24A; +12)
33 Yzerman(14GP: 12G + 21A; 0)
31 Gretzky (13GP: 9G + 22A; +10)
30 Nicholls (14GP: 9G + 21A; +7)
January 1989
33 Lemeux (12GP: 11G + 22A; +6)
26 Nicholls (13GP: 15G + 11A; -5)
26 Yzerman (14GP: 9G + 17A; -1)
26 Gretzky (13GP: 5G + 21A; -8)
February 1989
29 Lemeux (13GP: 11G + 18A; +9)
26 Gretzky (12GP: 12G + 14A; -3)
25 Yzerman (13GP: 13G + 12A; +3)
14 Nicholls (12GP: 5G + 9A; -1)
March 1989
30 Lemeux (13GP: 18G + 12A; -1)
27 Gretzky (14GP: 8G + 19A; +3)
23 Yzerman (14GP: 5G + 18A; -3)
20 Nicholls (14GP: 10G + 10A; +5)

April 1989, of course, is just a blip. Nicholls and Gretzky played just 1 game, but it was significant for Bernie as he scored 3 goals (to reach 70) and 2 assists (to reach 150 points) in his final game. Gretzky had 3 assists in that game. (Gretzky and Nicholls sat out the Kings' final game of the season.) In two April games, Mario had 2 goals and 1 assist. And in one game, Yzerman had 1 goal (to reach 65 goals and 155 points).

NOTES:
-- After Mario's remarkable start in October, the scoring race was his to lose. He had a 13-point lead after one month! However, he "slowed down" (relatively) a lot in November, perhaps giving some chance to the competitors... before December, that is, when Mario put his ultimate stamp on the season and really won the scoring race with 43 points, in what might have been the most dominant single month of his career.

-- Gretzky had 12 points in his first four games with L.A., as the Kings got off to a 4-0 start. Into late February, he had 46 goals in 59 games... but then only 8 goals in his final 19 games, continuing a pattern (started as early as 1985) where his goal scoring would notably decrease late in seasons. Though his season was a little less 'flashy' than the other three in some ways, Wayne might have been the most consistent scorer of these 4 in 1988-89.

-- Nicholls obviously had the best season of his career, finishing with one of the prettiest stat lines in history: 70 goals, 80 assists, 150 points, +30. More remarkably, he was ahead of Gretzky in Kings' overall scoring as late as December 26th, and as late as February 3rd (!) Bernie was only 1 point behind Wayne. Nicholls "slumped" (relatively) badly in February 1989, however, with only 14 points (not even being top-20 in NHL scoring).

-- Yzerman started slowly, with "only" 17 points in October (compared to the other three). But then, he really started ripping it up. From Nov. 1st to Feb. 11th, Yzerman scored 43 goals and 100 points in 46 games, which was only 8 points behind Mario (and 2 goals ahead of him). Oddly, he scored "only" 9 points in his final 8 games. Had he stayed on a heater, he might have had a chance at a 160-point (2.00 PPG) season, something only Wayne and Mario have ever done.

Overall scoring:
199 points (76GP) Lemieux
168 points (78 GP) Gretzky
155 points (80GP) Yzerman
150 points (79 GP) Nicholls

Goals
85 Lemieux (27.2%)
70 Nicholls (18.2%)
65 Yzerman (16.8%)
54 Gretzky (17.8%)

Assists
114 Lemieux
114 Gretzky
90 Yzerman
80 Nicholls

Even-Strength points
102 Lemieux
101 Yzerman
100 Gretzky
87 Nicholls

Even-Strength goals
45 Yzerman
41 Lemieux
41 Nicholls
38 Gretzky

Power-Play points
79 Lemieux
53 Gretzky
49 Nicholls
46 Yzerman

Power-play goals
31 Lemieux
21 Nicholls
17 Yzerman
11 Gretzky

Short-handed points
18 Lemieux
15 Gretzky
14 Nicholls
8 Yzerman

Leaving out the part where Yzerman was on a team with significantly worse offense than Gretzky or Lemieux.

 

[MadLuke]

Maybe but the year before the Wings scored 4 more goals than the Kings when Yzerman scored a similar about of points than Jimmy Carson that team just lost.

Gallant-Oates-MacLean-Klima-Chiasson, that not the same as the chance to have Coffey on your team, but does not seem a terrible supporting cast either.

Yzerman missed time the year before and scored "only" a regular star 100 pts the wings were third in the whole league in goal scored.